Mortons4ck said:
Pielikey said:
Regiment said:
-The Japanese would never surrender (their beliefs at the time prohibited such a thing), necessitating a drawn-out and destructive conflict between them and the United States before the war could end.
-The bombs certainly did end the war in the Pacific. Whether or not it could have been won without them is debatable (and difficult to prove either way), but leveling a city with a single explosion sends a pretty strong message.
-The Japanese had enough of an air force to get to Pearl Harbor and do a lot of damage.
I'm not saying we should use nuclear weapons ever again, but if you add up the death toll and compare it to what would have resulted from a drawn-out war with Japan, the bombs probably killed fewer people.
^What this guy said. The Japanese probably would of killed themselves fighting us, even very young children and women.
Although I still can't decide whether the answer is a yes, I'm leaning towards it.
1940's Japan was NOT the quirky but lovable country we know today.
Seeing as Japan was training children as young as 12 to run under American tanks with a satchel full of explosives then detonate themselves, I'm inclined to believe this.
Japan had little disregard for the lives of its civilians (as seen during the battle of Okinawa). Civilians were viewed as little more than a human shields to be exploited by the Japanese Army.
The Japanese Army also confiscated food from their civilians and executed those who hid it, and also executed any Japanese civilian who spoke a different dialect (an efficient way to cut back on spying in their view). America was more concerned about Japanese civilians than Japan was.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both military targets. Hiroshima was the headquarters of the Second Army (under Field Marshal Shunroku Hata), the Chugoku Regional Army, and held a large amount of supplies and munitions. It was hugely important to the Japanese war effort.
Nagasaki was a large military-industrial center that churned out ships, ordinance, and other raw materials. It is also interesting to note that Japan utilized British POWs as slave labor to perform work in the coal mines that would be too dangerous for Japanese.
The loss of civilian life was regrettable, but to reiterate, these were NOT civilian targets with no strategic importance.
Sir, I thank you for mentioning Okinawa, I've always noticed that whenever this debate springs up, people either don?t know about this battle or forget to mention it (considering its wedged between the famous Battle of Iwo Jima and the atomic bombings I guess its understandable, but its importance is paramount)
For those of you who don't know about this battle, he is the quick brief: in keeping with the island hopping doctrine, Okinawa was the next objective in the island hopping strategy. It had several airfields which could be used against Japan and considering Okinawa was only about 340 miles away, it would be able to provide more air support in what was going to be the Invasion of Japan. In three months of fighting, around THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND people died in that three month battle. Several incidents occurred during this which convinced many generals that the atomic bombs were an appropriate measure:
1. The grossly high number of deaths. About one hundred ten thousand Japanese soldiers died during the Okinawa campaign, while many casualties were during battle, many soldiers committed suicide rather than surrender. They would kill themselves with their swords, hold grenades to their chests or seal themselves inside of caves. At least one of the Japanese generals committed suicide rather than surrender. For allied casualties, almost thirteen thousand soldiers died during the battle, more than double the casualties that occurred at Iwo Jima. However, the ones that suffered the most were the native Okinawans. Estimates vary, some say that only 42,000 natives died during the battle, but most estimates place the number of civilian's dead at around eighty thousand to one hundred and twenty thousand. Some civilians were pressed into service by the Japanese military, but most were either killed in the cross fire between both sides, trapped in caves with Japanese soldiers (who would seal themselves in with explosives) or chose to commit suicide on the encouragement of Japanese soldiers.
2. The Kamikazes. Japanese suicide attacks were at an all time high at Okinawa. By the end of the battle, around 1,450 kamikaze flights had flown from Kyushu to Okinawa and had sunk thirty America ships, including the aircraft carrier Bunker Hill. The Ohka (a flying, manned bomb that was essentially a rocket engine with a cockpit and couple thousand pounds of high explosives) also appeared many times during the battle and many more were being produced in Japan. However an even more brazen suicide attack was present at the battle. As part of the Japanese battle plan Ten-Go the Super Battleship Yamato (the largest battleship ever made) was ordered to beach its self onto Okinawa and serve as an artillery base while most of the crew fought as marines. However, it was sunk before reaching Okinawa.
3. The Japanese mindset. Many people in this thread have already elaborated on this, but Okinawa really brought this foreword. Okinawa had a Japanese fighting force of more than one and ten hundred thousand, but only around ten thousand men were captured. The mindset of no surrender was present in every facet of Japanese society, the military never wanted its men to surrender and civilians were indoctrinated to believe this also. The sheer number of suicide attacks made against Americans is also indicative of this mindset.
4. What was waiting for us? Okinawa showed how desperate the Japanese were, with all the suicides and suicide attacks, many generals expressed concern about what was waiting for the Allies in an invasion of the Japanese mainland. Operation Downfall (the proposed plan to invade Japan) was revised to reflect a heavier casualty rate for both sides. It was also discovered after the war that Japan was preparing more Kamikaze units to be used to protect the mainland. The suicide units being tossed at Okinawa were only a fraction of the total number of suicide units (around several thousand planes had been retrofitted to become suicide planes). The civilian population was prepared to fight us well; many citizens were prepared to fight us tooth and nail to protect their homeland, especially after they had been told that the Allies would commit a multitude of atrocities against them.
The atomic bombings were justified; a conventional invasion would have killed more people and caused more damage in the long run. With projected casualties in the millions for the invasion which is more preferable? The Bombs or the Invasion?
