Poll: Was this police shooting justified in your opinion? (Graphic)

[FireAza]

I agree with OP, it looks like the cop panicked. But isn't all the rigorous training police officers go though suppose to help them stay calm and collected in these sort of situations? Maybe if the guy had a gun and was about to point it at someone, the cop would have a make a quick decision. But he had a mallet, the cop would know since he's got a gun, he's got the advantage, so shouldn't he have made a calm decision?

 

[Soviet Steve]

It is never advisable to go for a "non-vital" shot. Cops, soldiers, and anyone else acting in defense of themselves or another are taking unnecessary risk when they do so. Yes, sometimes it works, and it's quite dramatic when it does, but it's supremely risky and can still be lethal. Center mass shots are the safest for all involved.

You're forgetting that policemen aren't supposed to bring home body bags, they're supposed to enforce the law.

What I am saying in my post is that it is not possible to judge with 100% accuracy from the given footage whether or not it would be justified or not to use lethal force in this situation. It would appear that it is, given that the suspect is armed, non-compliant and moving to attack an officer in seemingly close quarters, at which point lethal force is not unreasonable.

If they had some distance between them and the suspect I would still expect them to subdue him with non-lethal means however.

 

[Steinar Valsson]

He was slowing down because the cop backed away from him. He wasn't about to attack and at most he should have got a shot in the leg, not multiple shots, anywhere.
I understand that making a choice in thes scenario is hard, but they are supposed to be trained in making the right choice, and killing someone for making a step forward with a weapon is not the right one.

 

[dragsaw]

Well if they shot at the knee or leg (no im not makeing an arrow to the knee joke)or any where that can make him stop in pain, but all so some thing that will heal

 

[Thaluikhain]

But, but but...they could have shot him enough to get him to drop the thingy, but not hurt him...like in the movies!

Or, they could try wrestling with the guy with the bit hitty thing and totally not get injured...like in the movies!

*sigh*

Seriously, shooting people in the leg or something does not work the way it does in the movies. It's difficult, might not stop the person immediately, and it likely to kill them anyway. A police officer either decides to shoot and kill you by firing into your centre of mass until you go down, or doesn't decide to shoot you.

Police officers are people too. If you try bludgeoning them to death, they are going to react with fear and hostility. They also are unlikely to risk their lives to save yours.

 

[Akimoto]

A "leg shot" or anything other than center-mass shot is exceedingly stupid and just as likely to be lethal.

Agreed. A leg shot may cut an artery anyway and in worse case pass through, bounce off (yes, bullets can and will bounce)the floor and hit someone else. At least in center mass shots there is more meat to stop the bullet.

In any case here in Asia most of the police are trained to shoot at center mass and when an armed and angry suspect is coming at them or passerby's. The life of one man is weighted against the safety of others. The video is also incomplete - we did not see what happened before the shooting. I am inclined to assume the video started rolling only after the guns came out.

Off topic: Military training also dictates center mass for those who are curious. You are, aren't you?

 

[Thyunda]

News story under the video, shooting occurs at 0:42.

Is a human life really worth so little that a half a dozen police officers will not try to overpower and disarm one man with a crowbar? I mean what is event the point of spending thousands of dollars equipping and training police with batons, pepper spray, rubber bullets, and police dogs if the cops aren't going to use them? The officer who shot the suspect didn't even go for the leg shot, it just looked like he panicked and unloaded.

There were two of them and it looked like he was about to attack one of them with the weapon. I don't think they needed to take the time to pull out another weapon when he's going to attack with something that can clearly injure that officer. He didn't have access to thousands of dollars of equipment right then and there.

And the leg shot nonsense is just ignorant. That's not how it works IRL. You don't shoot for the legs.

I'm sorry, but our police in England are trained to physically restrain an armed man. Plus he had a big fucking dog. The thug actually turned away from the officer with the dog, who responded by shooting him dead. If these officers were trained to actually respond to situations rather than just pulling a gun, that man would still be alive, and he'd be in a jail cell. If I can see an opportunity presenting itself, I'm quite sure a trained, baton-armed, dog-leashed police officer can.

 

[Jamash]

But, but but...they could have shot him enough to get him to drop the thingy, but not hurt him...like in the movies!

Or, they could try wrestling with the guy with the bit hitty thing and totally not get injured...like in the movies!

But the Cops didn't need to shoot and kill the person to stop him.

They could have easily dived away in slow motion whilst dual wielding their guns and firing at the gas tank of the car next to the assailant, causing a minor explosive fireball which would have knocked him off his feet but otherwise leaving him unharmed.

Then they would have cracked a joke about him being a "hot customer" whilst sharing stories about the fishing boat they're going to buy when they retire in 2 days time.

Basically, an innocent man was needlessly murdered because a couple of 'by-the-book' Cops haven't watch enough movies and don't have the balls to be wisecracking maverick loose cannons.

I hope their Angry Black Captain tears them a new one and sends them back to Police Academy (and Police Academy 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, & 7).

 

[idarkphoenixi]

Peacefull "occupy" protests = Armies of riot police, tear gas, rubber bullets, bean bags, grenade canisters to the face.

Some guy with a short range weapon who might even have some mental issues = A hail of bullets to the chest.

Look, I'm the last person who would tell people how to do their job but there is a serious issue with policemen over-reacting and abusing their power. Yes, he has a weapon but it's NOT a gun. That's a big plus for you guys because it means you can keep your distance, what the hell were you doing within swinging range of his crowbar? You're all carrying pistols and I don't know if you know this but those things can be fired at range. They're pretty accurate too so why you didn't try a shot to his hand or leg I'll never find out.

They never reached for pepper spray, or a tazer. Being Americans,I wouldnt be suprised if they wern't even issued those things but the one guy even had a fucking dog on him. Those things are trained to attack men armed with guns! You can't let rover off his leash to attack some crazy guy with a piece of metal in his hand??

I didn't see the entire thing so maybe they did try other options but when you have a problem your first instinct should NOT be to reach for a firearm, that is always meant to be a last resort. Unless your life, or the life of some innocent is in danger then keep your fingers off the triggers.

 

[Random Fella]

He was charging with the weapon though, it's not like they were 10 meters away from him...
Therefore I find this completely justified, and from looking at the guy it seemed he had no respect for the authority or self control, so really he deserved the death he received.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

The officer who shot the suspect didn't even go for the leg shot,

That's probably because the police never do that, like, ever. Not only is the leg hard to hit, but, well... Have you ever heard of the femoral artery?

 

[Todd Ralph]

im kinda curious as to when you people will actually learn that a human life has no greater value than a pig/dog/fly/ant any other organism. What makes a human life more valuable? We provide nothing to anyone we simply take and take. Not single one of you will be missed when you die and no one will care when you are born. It all makes me sick seeing this crap. Im sorry the kid died. bull shit you dont care. Just like every one of those support the troops stickers and all the athletes that "support the troops". just because you say it doesnt make it true.

you all make me sick.

 

[Skops]

Justified.... But after 3, the preceding 7-8 rounds you put into the man I wouldn't consider defence anymore. However, he did what he had to do to protect his partner. I would think there's a higher incident rate of officers hesitating to do what is necessary to protect others.

Also, that guy was a beast. Taser to the face and he just waves it? Damn!

 

[fletch_talon]

Is a human life really worth so little that a half a dozen police officers will not try to overpower and disarm one man with a crowbar?

The life of any 1 of those police officers is indeed worth more than that man with a crowbar.
Sure, 6 men should be able to overpower 1, but that doesn't mean that none of those 6 men will be injured (potentially mortally) in the process.

 

[Saltyk]

News story under the video, shooting occurs at 0:42.

Is a human life really worth so little that a half a dozen police officers will not try to overpower and disarm one man with a crowbar? I mean what is event the point of spending thousands of dollars equipping and training police with batons, pepper spray, rubber bullets, and police dogs if the cops aren't going to use them? The officer who shot the suspect didn't even go for the leg shot, it just looked like he panicked and unloaded.

There were two of them and it looked like he was about to attack one of them with the weapon. I don't think they needed to take the time to pull out another weapon when he's going to attack with something that can clearly injure that officer. He didn't have access to thousands of dollars of equipment right then and there.

And the leg shot nonsense is just ignorant. That's not how it works IRL. You don't shoot for the legs.

This 1000 times.

This is 100% justified. The suspect was clearly ignoring commands. It looks like they tried to pepper spray or taser him just before, which he ignored. When the suspect turns and raises his weapon to attack an officer, who was off-guard, his partner unloaded to protect him. It wasn't like he could switch weapons in that time. Two more seconds and the suspect would have been beating on the first officer with a crowbar. And I wouldn't dismiss the damage that a crowbar could do.

As for the leg shot comment, yes, that is just ignorant. Its brought on by Hollywood and video games insisting that anything but a shot to the heart or head won't kill you. Shooting a person in the leg is no less likely to result in death, than shooting them in the torso. In fact, shooting a person in the leg or more likely to result in someone else dieing as you can easily miss a small and moving leg. When police shoot, they shoot to kill. When anyone shoots, they shoot to kill. So, whats the difference where they shot him or how many times they shot him?

I will agree with the OP on one thing, though. The guys taping it were completely disgusting. They completely deserve commendation. The police don't.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

As someone on YouTube said:

"The officers tried to control the situation, the guy ignored them, a police officer put his gun away before trying to take the suspect down, the suspect saw the policeman didn't have a weapon drawn and decided to charge him with a deadly weapon, the second officer opened fire to protect his collegue, what video are you guys watching?"

Absolutely justified. As for the reaction of the people shooting, I don't blame them for being 'excited'. Their adrenalin's flowing too, you know. Wouldn't your heart be racing if you saw someone get shot to death within a few meters of you too? Cut them some slack.

 

[RobinEggs]

What is wrong with you people?!? I can't believe most of you saw nothing wrong with any part of that event.

Even if you think the shooting was justified, which is a debatable but credible opinion, what about that second burst of four shots, a full second after the first five rounds were fired?

What justifies shooting a man who's already been shot and collapsed, with five bullet holes in him, another four times point blank? This stuff you're saying about police being human, being afraid for their lives and prone to drastic reaction just like anyone else, is true enough, but the purpose of their training is to overcome as much of that as possible.

In any case it's rarely excusable for anyone, however hysterical or fearful, to use force on a prone, disabled target; it's never, ever acceptable for trained law enforcement to use lethal force on a disabled target. That's a rule to which I honestly can't imagine any sane person objecting. The officer firing those shots is a fucking menace who I wouldn't trust with a squirt gun; he should be dismissed and charged with felony assault.

EDIT: What's...with the weird
spacing the forum keeps jamming
into my paragraphs?
I don't put
line breaks in the middle of
my sentences
like some washed up
beatnik poet