Poll: What happened to TF2?

[Battlefrank]

I've been irritated about these updates to TF2. They irritate me because:
-Once it's all done, the game will have lost it's noob-friendlyness
-while it's being done, the classes are imbalanced.
-being a pyro means you are god and nobody can stop you from fucking everyone's shit up.
-Achievements are supposed to only be things you collect and brag about.
-It makes the game feel more like an MMO.

The worst part is this is valve's idea! Valve, the company known for making good ideas but failing to implement them in a timely manner!
I'm sick of pyros with backburners clearing out areas with no problem at all and I'm sick of 3/4 of TF2 players going to whatever class just got updated!
I look forward to the day when they at least set up an option to block out these stupid enhancements so I can go back to playing TF2 the way I liked it.
* when I say block out the enhancements, I mean having servers that block them

 

[Spierek]

Well, I like these updates. At least they're shoving some new features into the game. Yep, the game got unbalanced, because right now only 3/9 classes are upgraded, but that's ok.

As for the Achievements - I only collect all weapons, and the rest (something like 15 achievements) are left to complete itself in time.

Pyro isn't a god. Heavy > Pyro with normal flamethrower. Soldier > Pyro with Backburner (because then he cannot deflect rockets).

3/4 of TF2 players going to whatever class just got updated!

True, that amount of achievement whores is a pain in the ass. When Heavy Update came out, I made enough achievements to have these weapons, on private server with my friends, because I don't play as a Heavy - so I just got weapons, I'm happy, now I can get back to playing as classes that really matter to me.

 

[Doug]

Personally, I like the updates. And the 'noob friendliness' isn't broken, or unbalanced. Every unlockable advantage is balanced by a downside. For example:

* The pyro backburner only criticals people's backs and can't deflect rockets/act as a sticky-bomb mineswepper.
Result: Better in surprise attack, worse in head on combat when choke points allow Demo's to mine the area.

* The Flare gun allows for long range attack and distruption, but is weaker than the shotgun over medium range.
Result: Better against snipers (especially for messing up their aim) and for destracting the enemy at range, worse for general use (although still fun to set fire to them)

The melee weapons are melee weapons.


The medic unlockables weren't introduced well at first - you had to collect -all- the achievements, which was more like a huge grind sandwich. Thankfully, I didn't need the help of a private server (which I don't have) or a clan (which I don't have) to get the bulk of the pyro achievements, and Valve have retroactively changed the medics to match the pyro system.

Personally, I enjoy it all, and it adds alot to the game. Even if you don't like the unlockables, the achievements and the new maps are fun. Add to that the short but high amusing 'meet the' videos.

 

[Doug]

-being a pyro means you are god and nobody can stop you from fucking everyone's shit up.
-Achievements are supposed to only be things you collect and brag about.

Umm, what? Pyro is an ambush class. If Pyro were a god, you'd be able to charge head on at massed enemy ranks and slaught them all. That doesn't work. IF a Pyro manages to get pass the minefields and flanks of your team, frankly they deserve to get alot of kills for that feat.

If your team works fairly well together (which happens alot in TF2, I notice) Pyro's have to try and get passed sticky-bomb carpets and heavies with miniguns, or rocket launching Soldiers, or Engineer turrets, etc.

Complaining about Pyro's successfully ambushing you is like complaining about snipers blowing your head off in a wide open area - its true that it can be annoying, but you've missed the point entirely.

edit: And I like the fact they've used achievements. Feels like they actually serve a use for once, heh... And sorry for the double post, heh.

The only classes I've not really used are scout and spy, because I'm bad at their play type. I don't go 'Oh I can't work them, therefore they are stupid and useless', nor do I moan everytime someone backstabs half the team when we're all destracted. Its apart of the game and if you manage to use your class right at the right time and place, you get a rich reward, whichever class you play.

 

[Battlefrank]

They say the backburner isn't overpowered and has a downside, but then again, it has 50+ health and that alone substitutes the lack of secondary fire. the point is that 1 pyro witha backburner can ambush through an area of about 6 people and successfully kill them all. And they do. All the time.
But my big problem is you now have to grind the fuck out of it just to get these achievements. I admit the problem is probably that I hate MMOs but I like having all the features of a game available when I buy it without having to GRIND MYSELF RETARDED just to get them.
I would be fine with it if:
-it wouldn't need to be unlocked
-all these extras would be balanced from the weapon they try to replace(which is great right now except for the backburner)
-all these extras would be released for all the classes at the same time

As it is right now, if there was some option to block servers with extras/servers without extras as well as an option to host/join servers without extras, I would simply do that instead of ranting here. But the biggest problem is that IT'S FORCED ON US and if you don't like it, well FUCK YOU I guess. What, were you expecting a normal FPS and not this MMO grinding shit when you bought this? Too bad, you're getting forced into it, and for some people (like me) this is feeling similar to a rape. You can't do anything about it and it's not going to be fun.

 

[sunami88]

If you want to go back to the default, vanilla game, just buy the 360 version. I swear the second I get a credit card (two weeks, hopefully) I'm getting TF2 for my PC.

 

[Fenixius]

...mate, Backburner doesn't have +50HP. Hasn't had that for at least a month now. All it does it guaranteed critical damage to someone's back, and that's it.

Also, if you don't want the new weapons, fine, don't try to get them. You might unlock Milestones 1 and 2 pretty quickly by yourself if you play those classes (ie: Medic, Pyro, Heavy) a lot, but otherwise, you shouldn't care. You don't need those weapons to be competitive. You're not being forced to grind, but the grind has been added as an option, which you don't need to care about if you don't want to. You'll live just as long in 90% of situations with a Flamer as a Backburner, or the Fists instead of the Killer Gloves of Boxing.

What you said about "noob friendliness going away" is utter BS, too. +3 weapons/class don't make the game require a statistics degree to be successful at. It's just a little more to remember to not turn your back on the shark-flamer, and that the yellow orbs around you mean you won't turn invulnerable when you yell "activate charge". It's not that hard. In addition to it not being as complex as you seem to think, the achievements actually INCREASE noob friendliness. The pros don't really care about being rewarded for taking 4 kinds of damage in one life, but for a new guy, that's awesome that I earned something for it. And what I just earned counts towards unlocking things?! Hell yes! It's not worse for new people, it's better now than ever before. Excepting perhaps Arena mode, where one benefits from knowing the capabilities of every class completely.

That having been said, I'm burned out on TF2. The Heavy is one of my favourite classes, but I just don't care any more about playing the game. Arena, new Goldrush, Steel... that's cool... but... it doesn't matter. As I said before, the game hasn't changed radically beyond belief since it was released, excepting maybe rebalances, and even then it now plays how it always should have. I guess playing the game for hours and hours and hours into the mornings for a few months wasn't as good a plan as I thought.

Edit:

I like having all the features of a game available when I buy it without having to GRIND MYSELF RETARDED just to get them.

Don't go and get Smash Bros Brawl. You'll murder everyone you know and then shoot yourself.

 

[GothmogII]

Actually the +50 health was removed in a recent patch. To even things out, so the only thing the Backburner's got going now is it's crit to the back. Oh, it did get a snazzy new sound effect too...

As for the unlockables. One, they have reduced it so as you only need 10/15/20 per milestone. Two, although the unlockable weapons can change how one plays the game. They in no way make one player better or worse than any other. You can be a good player not matter what you use. Although of course some weapons -are- more difficult to use effectively then others, i.e. using the Kritzkrieg over the Medigun.

As for the Pyro being overpowered. Being able to sneak up and smash through a throng of players. So? You can do that easily with a Demoman too, it's damn satisfying in the first tunnel on the new playload map, they don't see you coming and are concentrating ahead, load a few stickies, and boooom! Multikiiiillll! Even a Soldier or Heavy can do it if they're quick on the ball. Defending against such attacks all comes down to your team being aware. If you get killed this way, either the pyro was doing his job, or your team just wasn't paying enough attention.

And lastly, you don't have to do any of the achievements. It's not going to significantly affect your game should you choose not to. And even if you find too many people choosing whatever class just got their new weapons, the simple answer here is to find a server that limits how many people can be X class, ie. 4 Heavies or 3 Pyros per map.


Edit: Fenixius!! I call mind reader! Got in just as I was typing my one hehe ^^'

 

[Battlefrank]

Actually the +50 health was removed in a recent patch.

But there is still the problem that I simply don't like the unlockables and I want a server with them excluded to play on.

 

[Battlefrank]

...mate, Backburner doesn't have +50HP. Hasn't had that for at least a month now. All it does it guaranteed critical damage to someone's back, and that's it.

Also, if you don't want the new weapons, fine, don't try to get them. You might unlock Milestones 1 and 2 pretty quickly by yourself if you play those classes (ie: Medic, Pyro, Heavy) a lot, but otherwise, you shouldn't care. You don't need those weapons to be competitive. You're not being forced to grind, but the grind has been added as an option, which you don't need to care about if you don't want to. You'll live just as long in 90% of situations with a Flamer as a Backburner, or the Fists instead of the Killer Gloves of Boxing.

What you said about "noob friendliness going away" is utter BS, too. +3 weapons/class don't make the game require a statistics degree to be successful at. It's just a little more to remember to not turn your back on the shark-flamer, and that the yellow orbs around you mean you won't turn invulnerable when you yell "activate charge". It's not that hard. In addition to it not being as complex as you seem to think, the achievements actually INCREASE noob friendliness. The pros don't really care about being rewarded for taking 4 kinds of damage in one life, but for a new guy, that's awesome that I earned something for it. And what I just earned counts towards unlocking things?! Hell yes! It's not worse for new people, it's better now than ever before. Excepting perhaps Arena mode, where one benefits from knowing the capabilities of every class completely.

That having been said, I'm burned out on TF2. The Heavy is one of my favourite classes, but I just don't care any more about playing the game. Arena, new Goldrush, Steel... that's cool... but... it doesn't matter. As I said before, the game hasn't changed radically beyond belief since it was released, excepting maybe rebalances, and even then it now plays how it always should have. I guess playing the game for hours and hours and hours into the mornings for a few months wasn't as good a plan as I thought.

Edit:

I like having all the features of a game available when I buy it without having to GRIND MYSELF RETARDED just to get them.

Don't go and get Smash Bros Brawl. You'll murder everyone you know and then shoot yourself.

SSBB, I would have totally LOVED that game if it weren't for the unlockables. I BOUGHT IT, WHY DO I HAVE TO WORK TO UNLOCK IT?

 

[Anarchemitis]

And here I was expecting to be able to play the free weekend problem free...
I got the pre-load and everything...

 

[Ixus Illwrath]

I love the weaponry options, for the MOST part they're all sidegrades, save the medic who has 2 upgrades and a downgrade IMO and according to my playstyle. Player input seems to matter to valve, and no matter how much they imbalance the game according to some, both teams can play against each other on equal ground.

 

[Battlefrank]

I love the weaponry options, for the MOST part they're all sidegrades, save the medic who has 2 upgrades and a downgrade IMO and according to my playstyle. Player input seems to matter to valve, and no matter how much they imbalance the game according to some, both teams can play against each other on equal ground.

does your name come from star control?

 

[Ixus Illwrath]

I love the weaponry options, for the MOST part they're all sidegrades, save the medic who has 2 upgrades and a downgrade IMO and according to my playstyle. Player input seems to matter to valve, and no matter how much they imbalance the game according to some, both teams can play against each other on equal ground.

does your name come from star control?

Dammit, try to come up with something original :\

Hehe, now I'm gonna have to do an ass-ton of research that hopefully doesn't have me changing my handle unilaterally across 50 websites

Edit:
14. ILWRATH AVENGER
===================
o Starts with 22 crew, 16 fuel points.

o HellFire Blast detail: Costs 1 fuel point to fire. Can fire 16 times in a
row (continuous fire) if fuel is at maximum. The weapon fires a series of
overlapping bursts of flame, each burst doing 1 point of damage.

o The HellFire Blast has qualities common to both field and unguided-missile
weapons: Like a field, its area of influence in relation to the ship will not
vary, even if the ship is moving at great speed; and like an unguided-missile
weapon, its fire can be concentrated along one firing angle, or swept to
cause damage in two or more directions simultaneously. Among all ships, this
is the only weapon with these combined attributes.

o Firing will deactivate the cloaking device. It will remain deactivated until
the C button is hit again.

o If the Ilwrath fires when cloaked, it will always uncloak facing towards the
enemy ship (provided no object is preventing the Ilwrath from facing that
direction). The Ilwrath will even find another cloaked Ilwrath in this way.

o Cloaking device detail: Costs 3 fuel points to toggle on or off with the C
button. No fuel is used to uncloak when uncloaking is caused by firing. Can
maintain a constant rate of use if fuel is at maximum.

o Generally, the cloak only truly conceals the direction the ship is facing,
and the ship's thrust trail. The Ilwrath's position, speed and direction of
flight can still be computed, because the tactical combat screen view adjusts
to keep each ship in the exact inverted location of the other ship at all
times. A cloaked Ilwrath can counter this disclosure of position only when
combatting another cloaked Ilwrath.

o The cloak absorbs light instead of bending it, so the ship will still blot
out the stars it passes over. Its silhouette may also be glimpsed in
Earthling missile explosions against its hull.

o Fighters, DOGIs and homing weapons are unable to track the Ilwrath when it is
cloaked. (Fighters, DOGIs and Androsynth bubbles will remain in a limited
area; other homing projectiles will proceed along a straight path until they
expire.)

o The Ilwrath's Refuel rate is very fast (well above the rate shown in the
graph provided by the ship data bank in Practice mode), and as such it allows
nearly continuous firing of the HellFire Blast weapon.

o Ilwrath captain names: Argarak, Baylor, Borgo, Dirga, Gorgon, Kalgon, Kayzar,
Lurgo, Manglor, Regorjo, Rogash, Slygor, Taragon, Targa, Vogar, Zoggak.


Mine has 2 L's, my legacy remains safe

 

[Ripshot]

Well I play TF2 on my 360, since my PC isn't so great, and the 360 ("clean") version IS really balanced. (albeit being a ghost town)
But I'm downloading the free trial to see what the PC version is like.

Also, with the inevitable amount of heavies running around, spys will have a fun, fun time.

(but what I want to see is the spy update, THAT will be hilarious)

 

[Eyclonus]

I really don't see a valid point to your arguements. Sure everybody is going to be the newly updated class. Why? Because its another goal, another challenge. Your complaint about the Backburna is terribly out of date, and further more the purpose of the Pyro is to disrupt large mobs of players. There shouldn't be a massive slaughter because if they're working as a team, a scout will start pounding them early and delay them till a heavy gets wound up. If somebody's hurt then a medic heals them.
The game is an MMO because its online and intended for a massive number of people.


Stop bitching you whiny little Twerp.