Poll: What happened to the War in WarCraft?

[intercept]

I remember reading the WoW homepage for the first time. Other MMOs just didn't do it for me, but me and my friends were all looking for a game to play so we can keep in touch with one another during college. One of the things that really stuck out to me, beyond any promises of gameplay, was the promise of conflict. The website's description of the game ensured me that the on-going friction and conflict between the Alliance and the Horde was what drove the heart of the WoW game design.

Not many fantasy settings have attempted this before, and much less in a game. The idea of two morally ambiguous, greatly divergent global superpowers locked in a Cold War with one another was extremely appealing. I liked all the gray areas held in contention between the races. For example, one of the motivation reasons the night elves joined the Alliance wasn't so much an agreement on policies, but just sheer hatred for the orcs. And neither side is right or wrong.

The night elves demand the orcs to cease the deforestation of Ashenvale and leave the area in peace, but the orcs rebut by saying that if the night elves had truly benevolent intentions, they would stop building an increased troop presence by the forest so close to Durotar. The night elves demand the orcs to apologize for the death of Cenarius, but the orcs absolutely refuse, because they had nothing to do with it. Those were the actions of Grom Hellscream and the fel orcs, and it was also the orcs themselves who took on the task of slaying their wayward brethren. By taking responsibility for those actions, the orcs would be linking themselves to their demonic past, and they do not wish to be associated with those foul slave drivers any longer. The Alliance views Grom Hellscream as a savage and a godslayer, but in the eyes of the Horde, he was an extremely complex, sympathetic man who constantly struggled with his inner demons and died a hero's death by freeing his entire race. And to the frustration of the night elves, they continue to honor him yearly.

The sad part is, I didn't get any of this from WoW. This was from the third party WoW RPG books, and a few of those are just my own interpretations.

What happened to the pride in choosing a faction? The quests that were specifically designed to put you in conflict with the other side and hate them? I recall hearing that paladins and shamans were designed specifically with the intent of seeming overpowered, so back when they were faction exclusive, it would create even more friction between players. Vanilla WoW were the glory days when PvP server forums were filled with bile about who ganked where, who spit on which guild and giant flame wars that manifested themselves into in-game vendettas.

Now all PvP server forums are filled with are LOLPVPHAPPENEDONAPVPSERVER. If the purpose of a server forum isn't to start beef, then what is? Non sequitur threads about random inside jokes and pointless trolling? Cross faction ass kissing?

How many times have be "teamed up" now? First there was AQ. Then came Naxxramas. Then we team AGAIN for practically every raid in Outland. I understand we're supposed to be in a climate of extreme political tension but no conflict, but why can't we have events of near wars or a failure of negotiations?

As a review regarding the intent of the WoW series lately, the climate of hate we're supposed to be feeling is surprisingly absent. The only interesting tidbit I've seen about it in-game was the new quest at the Bulwark for Horde. There's a blood elf paladin there who asks you to go to Uther's Tomb and defile his memory. His reasoning is because he believes that Uther had failed his people by running back to King Terenas for permission to stop Arthas from razing Stratholme of the ground. Uther's failure to stop Arthas then and there put him on the road to becoming the Lich King, which led to the second Siege of Quel'Thalas. See? Gray area! Brilliant! But it was the only example.

This is one of the three things I find very bad about WoW lately. I'll extrapolate on the other two in other posts, and the reasons aren't related to gameplay. That's a different can of worms.

I'm eager to hear everyone else's opinions on this and I hope you've found my post insightful and entertaining to read.

 

[The Iron Ninja]

It got turned into an MMORPG. That's what happened to the war.
You started a thread with your first post?

Edit: Although now that it has been edited I see it is long enough to warrant a proper discussion. But I stick by my original point. (the one about war, not the one about threads)

 

[intercept]

It got turned into an MMORPG. That's what happened to the war.
You started a thread with your first post?

Yeah.

Like I said, I don't expect it to be like Warhammer. But I do expect it to be like WarCraft.

Another interesting contention between night elves and orcs... Durotar is technically night elf territory, but there are elements in the Horde (notably Saurfang) who believe that it is the Divine Right of the orcs to take Kalimdor by conquest. It is their Promised Land, when Medivh the Prophet appeared to Thrall in a dream and told him to take his people west, and there would be a land waiting for them they can call home. It holds religious fervor for him.

A really interesting touch that is also never explored.

 

[TaboriHK]

The political powers in place (especially Thrall) sort of make things lean towards resolution.

 

[Altorin]

apparently Northrend will involve more conflict between the horde and alliance, with zones like Lake Wintergrasp pitting them strongly against one another.

The long and the short of it is, Warcraft is a game of epic enemies that do not take sides. Gone are the days when Grom Hellscream was a standard Grunt and Lothar was a standard Knight, and the Humans and Orcs had just themselves to fight against.

Since Warcraft 3, the lore has been about coming together to fight insurmountable odds, like fighting Illidan, Kil'Jaeden, and now the Lich King. These enemies are much more powerful and dangerous then anything the "other side" might be planning, and you can't reason with them. You can't get them on your side. So the only option is to fight them. And they're easier to beat with a team.

So instead of Horde Vs. Alliance, you have Aldor and Scryer vs Kil'Jaeden, or Argent Dawn and the Scarlet Crusade coming together to take down the Lich King.

That's just the way it is these days.

and by the way, this should have gone in Gaming Discussion, not Reviews.

 

[r3dknight]

The problem here is the 'ill-fitting' people in certain factions are preventing two sides from ever reaching resolutions. I'm talking of Blood Elves and the Forsaken. These guys have no hope of integrating into normal society, the Trolls, Orcs and especially Taurens would fit in comfortably as long they curb their Demon worshipping ways, but Blood Elves had no other alternatives simply because they're already addicted to Demon magic as well as Forsaken undead form. These two guys are simply not the 'peaceful' types who are often trouble makers. Blood Elves tend towards more chaotic side for personal gain, but the Forsaken is more of a corrupting force that wanted others to be like them, undead.

 

[Blayze]

It got turned into an MMORPG. That's what happened to the war.

Agreed. It's the reason that, despite this latest quest chain involving the Royal Apothecary Society's new plague and their obvious intentions to use it on *everyone* bar themselves, the Forsaken will still be a playable race and part of the Horde. It's the reason we got Space Shamans and Belfadins.

When you're locked into providing constants, you choke the flexibility out of any story you can provide. Endgame raids unique to either faction? Impossible. The other faction would whine. Look at what happened with Shamans and Paladins.

We'll never have the Forsaken breaking away from the Horde, no matter their nature. We'll never have Thrall or Jaina dying, despite the sheer number of enemies they have and the fact that they're part of existing quests.

It's why the Scourge will always get beaten back. It's how the Tirisfal Glades, a level 1-10 zone, can exist on the edge of the Plaguelands.

The Orcs, Tauren and Trolls make natural allies. They *are* the Horde - especially the Orcs and Taurens. The Forsaken? No.

The Humans, Dwarves and High Elves? They're the Alliance (The less said about Gnomes, the better). The Night Elves are part of the Alliance as well, but not a close-knit part like the other races.

If we acknowledge the existence of the Draenei (Whose lore doesn't even fit properly, thanks to a mistake on Metzen's part) and the Blood Elves, we see how they *sorta* fit. It's not a perfect one, but it's close enough for Night Elf-level tension (Or at least, how the Night Elf-level tension should have been).

I had such hopes for a third faction, though. Blood Elves, Draenei (The real Draenei, not these magically good-looking idiots who can't pilot a spaceship properly), Naga and possibly some form of Demon. It'd make for great conflict in Outland, since that would logically be their base. Hell, the Dark Portal could have been opened by players of this third faction doing all sorts of quests while the Alliance and Horde bicker amongst themselves.

This is why potential threats such as those who want the Horde to return to its old ways won't ever be a proper threat - they'll just feature in a set of instances and have some named character in their ranks as a raid boss, then that'll be it for that threat. World of Warcraft could have been so much more, if it *wasn't* an MMO.

 

[wilsonscrazybed]

Moved to the gaming discussion forums.

 

[Irandrura]

Indeed.

Do you know what I think the problem is? Some of us started at the start. WCII and WCIII both did what good sequels do; they expanded and illuminated the premises of the earlier games. WCI was subtitled 'Orcs and Humans' for a reason; it was an excellent game, and the concept was basically 'there are orcs, there are humans, and they fight'. That was good.

WCII took that premise and built on it by introducing large, inter-racial alliances. Admittedly this led to the common complaint that the sides weren't really orcs and humans any more. Humans had it somewhat better - at least knights and mages were humans - but the only actual orcs that the orcs could build were peons and grunts, and it wasn't really 'humans versus orcs' so much as 'humans versus a ramshackle collection of orcs, trolls, ogres, and goblins'. But on the whole WCII worked because it took the initial dynamic, that of humans and orcs fighting each other, and made it bigger.

Then WCIII did the same thing. It took the premise and gave it more depth by rehabilitating the orcs and making them sympathetic. Admittedly this did come at the expense of stripping all dignity from the humans (I maintain that the Alliance has not done anything really worthy of respect since the end of BtDP; WCIII pulled its fangs, and Blizzard seems to think that making humans powerful, strong-willed, and assertive again will somehow turn the Horde evil again), but it was a good move and the neutering of the Alliance wasn't too bad. Orcs were turned from rampaging evil barbarians into noble savages, and that gave the race more depth. (Of course, I wish to point out that I have nothing but scorn for the likes of Aaron Rosenberg's Tides of Darkness, which seem determined to make the WCII orcs sympathetic, and thus make the orcs' redemption in WCIII totally meaningless.) WCIII took the 'orcs and humans fighting' concept and said 'what if we made the orcs and humans have to work together?'.

By and large that worked and was good. The night elves came completely out of left field, but at the time that was fine. They weren't too important, and seriously, we all know that the real climax of WCIII's plot was By Demons Be Driven and Grom killing Mannoroth, redeeming himself and the orc race. It's all downhill from there.

The problem with WoW, however, is that they don't do anything with the concept. Does anyone remember the original WoW introduction cinematic? That's what they should have done. It's a world where the Alliance and the Horde are fighting each other, and WCIII provided an excellent basis for that conflict from which you could still avoid declaring either to be objectively good or evil. I think this was the original plan. The WoW manual correctly states that 'The war between the Horde and the Alliance has been at the core of the Warcraft mythos for years' (p. 130), and if you look at the race sections, it even explicitly says that the reason the humans and dwarves are relying on adventurers like you is because their armies are busy fighting the Horde in distant lands. Look at the letters human [http://www.wowwiki.com/Simple_Letter] and orc [http://www.wowwiki.com/Simple_Parchment] warriors get; both say 'killed any orcs/humans lately?' Why? Because orcs and humans kill each other. It's what they do, and it's the essence of WarCraft.

But Blizzard has fallen back into the cliché trap of making Horde and Alliance unite against greater threats. This is WarCraft, people! It is about orcs and humans; by extension, the Horde and the Alliance.

Now, you see, this is why the Lich King is a good villain. The Burning Legion were also good villains, because they were beyond the divisions of Horde and Alliance, but the Lich King is a better one because of what he is. The Lich King is an orc (Ner'zhul) in a human's (Arthas) body. He is the worst of both species combined, and because of that is worse than any individual orc or human could be. Both sides need to kill him to redeem their race's honour and take revenge and so on and so forth.

But I don't think Blizzard particularly cares about that any more. The core of WarCraft is the orc/human, Horde/Alliance relationship. But in WoW there's just so much ancillary nonsense that only distracts you from that. With all the new races, the WCII complaint appears again. Humans are the core of the Alliance. Orcs are the core of the Horde. But if you look at the actual distribution [http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php] of players, is that true? Well, maybe it is for humans (humans always have a large player base, of course, in any game), but look at how orcs are marginalised? It's all about elves, and while there's nothing wrong with elves, WarCraft is not about light and dark elves fighting each other. It is about orcs and humans.

(Incidentally, it can be about elves. This is one of major complaints about Knaak's War of the Ancients trilogy, apart from the horrible writing in them. Which is weird, because Knaak isn't bad in other places, but I digress. There the problem was that he ruined a perfectly serviceable story about a war between the night elves and the Legion with a load of time travel nonsense. And his love for dragons. That too. You write the War of the Ancients about Tyrande, Illidan, and Furion. You use the demons, Xavius, and Azshara as villains. You even create some good original characters, such as Ravencrest, Desdel, Jarod, Varo'then, and so on. And Knaak did all of this. But he blatantly shoehorned in a token orc, a token human, and a token dragon (and I'm still not sure whether Rhonin or Krasus is a bigger Mary Sue) into the story for no apparent reason, and all they do is distract from what the story ought to be about. (Well... okay, Brox is good in places, but that doesn't justify it.))

Anyway, this has been a long incoherent rant, so make of it what you will.

 

[Blayze]

and I'm still not sure whether Rhonin or Krasus is a bigger Mary Sue

I'd say Rhonin, for one simple reason: During a scene that involves him, count how many times per paragraph Rhonin's name is used. I noticed it early on in Day of the Dragon, where it seemed like every second sentence had at least one use of his name.

"Christ, it's like he had this guy's name on the clipboard."

 

[BladesofReason]

As far as I'm concerned the "Moral ambiguity" between the Horde and Alliance disappeared when the Blood Elves and the Draenei showed up. Hey, here's a race that keeps angels locked in a basement and siphons power for their own twisted ends vs. the race of lightsworn beings who are destined to join the army of light to defeat the Burning Legion...

Also there was a reason the Exodar crashed on Azeroth outside the Draenei's inability to pilot said craft.

I too have noticed a marked decline in the conflict between the Horde and Alliance, but I normally attribute this to the fact that the de facto leaders of each faction are working very hard to come together (ex. Jaina and Thrall) and in many cases I love it. AQ remains my favorite dungeon in the game (oh how I miss it) and I actually really liked how the Horde and Alliance did help each other but still seemed to maintain a healthy amount of unease with each other in the mean time. I'm very excited for WotLK and from what I've seen it seems to be getting back to the conflict as both sides feel it's their right to take Northrend. Time will tell but I agree for the most part with the posters above. but I also have hope for the future.

 

[GenHellspawn]

I think it's because Warcraft 3 turned the Orcs into a bunch of pussy-whipped pansys who need all the help they can get. I mean, WTF? In Warcraft 2, they were blood-thirsty monsters possessed by demons! What happened to that?

 

[Johnn Johnston]

I haven't got a WoW account, but I know from my friends that do that 'War' makes up surprisingly little of the game.

 

[Natural Hazard]

Its a MMORPG Now thats what, they should just call it craft XD

 

[Moloch-De]

I still hate the Fact that Wow took my beloved series of games and turned into what exactly?
For me Warcraft was not only about gameplay but the Setting and Story were what sucked me in. By the release time i wasn't able to play WoW and when i had the proper internet connection i already discovered that blizard messed up big time. By name it is sipposed to be about a World of WARcraft but what you get is only a world of big fat monsters waiting in their Dungeon to get raidet. I wouldn't whine about this if it wasn't for all you guys paying so much Money each month for this game that blizzard won't be in a hurry to continue the Part of the series that is still true to it's Name

 

[Random Argument Man]

possessed by demons!

I think you answered your question.

Yes, it's a MMORPG now. The only aspect of war I can think of is
1.Battlegrounds
2.Raids on Major cities.

 

[[email protected]]

WOW was never interesting to me... Well when I first tried it..it was ok but then I realized... it was the same repetitive thing...

All the game was, was farming... or very similar quests..I got bored very easily.

So I don't know if the battle has lessened..as for me it never really started.

 

[JakubK666]

"Its a MMORPG Now thats what, they should just call it craft XD"

That's not an excuse.WAR somehow seems to be pulling it off...

 

[TomNook]

What happened to the CRAFT in Warcraft? See, I can do it to.

 

[Aeranlaes]

I assumed all the friendly relations were done to foreshadow a future alliance between the two parties. I see World of Warcraft eventually having its playerbase dwindle, and Blizzard foreseeing that and planning to merge the Alliance and the Horde; to renew interest for what would be the final time.