Poll: What is wrong with America?

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drisky

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THAC0 said:
Oh, this is an easy one.

Conservative.

And that extends to just about everything you mentioned in your poll. The problem isn't "the government", the government can be quite good and do amazing things. That is, unless conservatives have any say in it, and then it becomes a tool for corporations and the suppression of freedom.

just look at American history, I know your Canadian OP, so I will try to summarize it. All the cool stuff America has done has been the result of liberalism, often against conservative opposition.

--Won independence: liberals were for separating from England, conservatives were loyal to the crown.
--Civil War: liberals were willing to defend the union, conservatives were preaching about State's Rights.
--Public Education: Liberals wanted an educated populous, conservatives were yelling about socialism.
--Workers Rights: Liberals were wanting safe working conditions and a 40 hour week, Conservatives were still on it about socialism.
--Civil Right: Liberals wanted the races equal, conservatives wanted them separate.
--Women's Rights: Liberals wanted gender equality, conservatives were yelling about traditional values.
--Gay Rights: Liberals are all for it, conservatives are yelling about traditional values.
--Health Care: Liberals want it for everyone, conservatives are yelling about socialism (they never get tired of this one)
--Economy: Liberals want people to be able to afford to life, conservatives are all about keeping the rich rich and making them richer.
--Abortion: Liberals think women should have the right to their own reproductive organs, conservatives are back on traditional values.
--War: Liberals tend to be against it, conservatives AMERICUUUU FUCK YEAH!!! also we need to support military contractors.
That seems a bit off, I just looked it up and socialism wasn't even conceived until 1834 and wasn't adopted by any countries until 1917, how can the people that were fighting against public education call something socialism when they don't even know what it is, never mind there ever having been a problem from in it (yes socialism was just getting started so it was relevant, but its a completely different context after solivet russia, people where still figuring out socialism so it was much less of a scare tactic). Then you get to the last three points and you kind off miss the point. The economic issue is that conservatives feel that every one has earned the money they have and shouldn't have to be penalized for being successful. The abortion comes from a different definition on life, not "traditional values". And war is a complicated issue that varies from war to war, winning your independence took a war so really the way you put it your first statement contradicts your last. Just so you know I am liberal on most issues, but you have to understand the opinions of your opposition, other wise your going to have a hard time arguing against them.

As for the original topic, I think teachers make a decent salary, certainly not great though and public education is far from the first thing you need to cut back on, so really its a bad decision on the governors part.
 

THAC0

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drisky said:
That seems a bit off, I just looked it up and socialism wasn't even conceived until 1834 and wasn't adopted by any countries until 1917, how can the people that were fighting against public education call something socialism when they don't even know what it is, never mind there ever having been a problem from in it (yes socialism was just getting started so it was relevant, but its a completely different context after solivet russia, people where still figuring out socialism so it was much less of a scare tactic).
socialism, and the fear of it by the upper classes, came to America in the 1850's or so and i think was brought mostly by German immigrants.

drisky said:
Then you get to the last three points and you kind off miss the point. The economic issue is that conservatives feel that every one has earned the money they have and shouldn't have to be penalized for being successful.
that is the conservative talking point to be sure, but the reality is that the policies they support are by design, merely wealth distribution to the upper classes. Some people do actually believe the myth of "job creators" but the rest understand exactly what they are doing.

drisky said:
The abortion comes from a different definition on life, not "traditional values".
their definition though, is based on interpretations of the Bible. Hard to get more traditional than that.

drisky said:
And war is a complicated issue that varies from war to war, winning your independence took a war so really the way you put it your first statement contradicts your last.
Well, they "tend" to be against war. Your right, that does vary a lot from war to war. I, personally am against any and all aggressive war against countries that didn't attack us. That means that their has yet to be a war in my life that i supported. I would have no problem with defending the country however.

I would like to point out that the revolution was also motivated by the interests of some very wealthy people in the colonies and the average person most likely did not feel that oppressed by their tyrannical overlords. I included that on my list of "good" things just because i enjoy the irony of the same group that preaches nationalism, making up a very significant portion of the opposition to the revolution that founded the nation.

drisky said:
Just so you know I am liberal on most issues, but you have to understand the opinions of your opposition, other wise your going to have a hard time arguing against them.
pleased to meet you.
 

General BrEeZy

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Jul 26, 2009
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"damn it, do you know what's wrong with our country??"
..."they're all trying to kill us?"
"EXACTLY."

-John Malkovich in Red.
 

godfist88

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those stupid teachers, (and most unions in general), they always keep asking for more than they deserve. i don't think it's fair to give someone more pay and Benefits just for sucking at their jobs.
 

infabread

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Not enough characters in this comment box to answer your question so im just going to refer you to any film by Michael Moore.
 

punkrocker27

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solid_snake said:
And this is why unions are great. Here in Sweden we regulations regarding when and why you're allowed to fire someone partially thanks to unions for example "Talked too much about her personal life" isn't an acceptable excuse to fire someone.
Actually the problem here is that the principal or some other superior got abusive with their power in firing that teacher. That shit would never fly at my school because our principal is generally good at her job and pretty laid back when it comes to fun too. I really wish people could see some of the things my teachers do. They still get the job done though and it's not because they know their jobs are safe or that they'll get paid higher wages with the union as their shield, it's because they really care about educating these kids.

That's what it all boils down to: respect for others and their education. Not how many vacation days you get. It's reflected in the way everyone in the community gets involved, from the PTA to board meetings to the news pointing out corruption, and it's especially important considering this is a relatively low-income urban area where many of the kids do fall through the cracks. The school district, while imperfect, has made amazing strides to turn that stuff around and as a result schools here are ranked as globally competitive.

Unfortunately, we often get overlooked during these discusions in Congress because we're not some big-name school district in New York or LA, which is a shame seeing as these places could learn from our example. It could also have to do with the way American schools are regulated: it's up to the individual states themselves to set their own standards, and then it goes down to locality and even the districts within that. So, it's easy to see why no one place in the States has the same attitude about education. Many people working at the schools I've attended can't even agree with the policies they make at district headquarters downtown, and so openly ignore them. Maybe dissent is one of the reasons we perform better.

But reform has to start somewhere, and that somewhere is in the home. Get to know the faculty, the administrators, and other parents. Work with them and form your own ideas. Most importantly, teach your child respect and the values of hard work, and you will see change.

That's what's right with America, at least.
 

SofaEater

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Jan 15, 2011
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Review of the Wisconsin budget plan for 2011
-Philip E. Morris (AKA SofaEater)

Salary and Taxes

The average salary before taxes for a teacher is $46,390, and starting salary of $25,222; and this is before the proposed 5.8% to 12.6% increase tax is $40,544 and $22,044 respectively BEFORE normal taxes. The average cost of LIVING of one person per month in Wisconsin is $487.35, factor in the dues to the unions (for strike pay, representation, legal, fair treatment and hiring, etc). Then factor in of $1,081.91(base payment) + 12.6% state tax and $4,681.25(base payment) + 25% federal tax. This means an actual income of $24,800.18 & $10,986.75. This is 53.46% & 43.56% of their original salary and 217.24% more than someone with the same salary in a different position. [My math may be incorrect]
{Scott Walker makes about $129,611 yearly excluding bonuses. (Via http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29505169.html)}

Understanding the planned budget

The Budget takes money only from education section of the government not the legislative employees. These include (but are not limited to); the governor, council members, Congress and House representatives, and county executives. Now under Governor Walker's budget, unions would have to win yearly votes to continue representing the workers, and could no longer have dues deducted from workers' paychecks. This could effectively destroy the unions, because if there is one election that doesn't go in favor of the unions for teachers are abolished. And unions are a necessity, as they help protect the rights of the workers of that field in matters relating to pay, conditions, hours, etc. (Look at the time periods before unions and other countries that don't have unions). And, coincidently, a 7% increase in the 'Employment Relations Commission' whose propose is to "avoid the costly consequences of strikes, lockouts and other interruptions of service and production".

The long term consequences

The damage to the education system will be also immediate if this budget is accepted. Teachers will leave their jobs creating a void in a job field that is already in demand. This will lead to under qualified and less skilled teachers being hired. And because the starting salary is so low less money will be given to the state via taxes. This defeats the entire propose and reasoning behind Governor Scott Walker's plan for a better state economy.
________________________________________________________________________________

The majority of the information has been obtained by the actual budget itself and nationally accredited news sources, along with public government documents.

"The Governor recommends increasing state employee contributions towards pension and health insurance costs. Employees will generally pay 50 percent of the total required retirement contribution, which for calendar year 2011 equals 5.8 percent of salary. The Governor further recommends increasing employee contributions for health insurance from approximately 6 percent of the premium to 12.6 percent of the premium. These modifications are necessary to bring state employee compensation in line with private sector employment and reduce compensation costs." - The proposed budget (http://www.doa.state.wi.us/debf/execbudget.asp)
 

Death God

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That is why I avoid the news and politics. It is depressing how sad our country is at times like this. So I'd rather be ignorant of it all then have to listen to the dribble T.V. spouts out.
 

Shycte

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Is it just me who don't understand shit about what's going on? Context pl0x?
 

MysticToast

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On the Wisconsin subject, Scott Walker is doing what he needs to do to fix the economy. People here don't like that cuz they're used to having a governor who sat on his ass all day.
 

Bon_Clay

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I'm not really a fan of unions as a lot of them have gotten too powerful and useless these days. Though there is no denying they were created for good reason, and there was a time when they were needed to protect workers. Whatever the right balance of power is in this particular situation is, it won't be found by threatening to fire people or having incredibly rich people using their money to influence the outcome.

I personally think government should be as small as possible, and they should generally stay the hell out of people's business unless it it to protect them from injustice.

However I generally hate all of America's supposed right wing politicians. Not only is there the issue of "social conservatism" where they discriminate and persecute people based on their own Christian fanaticism, they aren't even economically conservative either. They grow government just as much as any Democrat, just on different things, and rack up debt even more so.

Which is why I have some respect for their left wing, even if I don't agree with all their policies they at least have good intentions of helping people and supporting personal freedom.
 

Saucycarpdog

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Laurie Barnes said:
Grabbin Keelz said:
Laurie Barnes said:
Grabbin Keelz said:
I see a thread like this almost every week now. America really isn't such a bad place to live in.

As for Fox News, its a joke. Even worse is that most of our media strives to be like them.
If you see this thread once a week, don't you think there might actually be something wrong if so many people seem to think so?
Not really, considering most of the threads come from people who only hear about America from our media (which we all know is a wholehearted reliable source) and our government.(again)
It's fine to point out stuff like that, but it kinda hurts when everyone makes America out to be a terrible place in general. I live here and I can tell you it's not as bad as everyone thinks.
Yeah and how the hell else are we supposed to learn about America? I use the internet, I start discussions like this to better my understanding. Furthermore, if your own media,(and/or government) is portraying your country as not only a cesspool of the ignorant but a oozing sore our planet would be better without(whether this is true or not), and you still don't think there is something wrong, then you are delusional.
Calling all americans ignorant is not the best way to make friends on here. You only end up starting an arguement, but that's already happened I guess.

OT: I support the unions. Sure, there may be some corrupt ones, but overall they help the middle class. Without them, the foundations of the middle class would be shaken. It cannot rely on just the private sector to function well.
 

JordanXlord

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Grabbin Keelz said:
I see a thread like this almost every week now. America really isn't such a bad place to live in.

As for Fox News, its a joke. Even worse is that most of our media strives to be like them.

argeed completly

i want to move to russia just to get away from it

...i like russia
 

JordanXlord

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k-ossuburb said:
I find it ironic that the people that FOX would call "heroes" after 9/11 (firemen, police officers, etc.) are the same people they're antagonizing right now.

It's like FOX bases every one of its stories on emotional reactions and personal opinions instead of evidence and facts, and we know that's not the case. They're a news company after all. Herpa derp, derp, durrrr. FOX IS DA BESTEST COZ THEY SUPPORT JEEZUS AN' I LIKES JEEZUS! Durr.
argeed


and i think if jesus was watching fox news


He would Face palm and go

"I died for THIS?!"
 

sansamour14

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IMO the problem is that being a politician now is doing things not for the good of the country or the ppl u represent but only doing things that ill get u re elected
 

Kuilui

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JordanXlord said:
k-ossuburb said:
I find it ironic that the people that FOX would call "heroes" after 9/11 (firemen, police officers, etc.) are the same people they're antagonizing right now.

It's like FOX bases every one of its stories on emotional reactions and personal opinions instead of evidence and facts, and we know that's not the case. They're a news company after all. Herpa derp, derp, durrrr. FOX IS DA BESTEST COZ THEY SUPPORT JEEZUS AN' I LIKES JEEZUS! Durr.
argeed


and i think if jesus was watching fox news


He would Face palm and go

"I died for THIS?!"
Yes because Fox is the only news organization who does that. I recall when that one governor got killed by that lunatic every liberal news station was blaming Sarah Palin and glen beck and saying the shooter was a right wing nut job. Even though none of that was true. In fact the shooter was a liberal. All news organizations are guilty of doing this kind of nonsense so please don't make it sound like Fox is the only one guilty, okay?
 

drisky

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THAC0 said:
drisky said:
That seems a bit off, I just looked it up and socialism wasn't even conceived until 1834 and wasn't adopted by any countries until 1917, how can the people that were fighting against public education call something socialism when they don't even know what it is, never mind there ever having been a problem from in it (yes socialism was just getting started so it was relevant, but its a completely different context after solivet russia, people where still figuring out socialism so it was much less of a scare tactic).
socialism, and the fear of it by the upper classes, came to America in the 1850's or so and i think was brought mostly by German immigrants.

drisky said:
Then you get to the last three points and you kind off miss the point. The economic issue is that conservatives feel that every one has earned the money they have and shouldn't have to be penalized for being successful.
that is the conservative talking point to be sure, but the reality is that the policies they support are by design, merely wealth distribution to the upper classes. Some people do actually believe the myth of "job creators" but the rest understand exactly what they are doing.

drisky said:
The abortion comes from a different definition on life, not "traditional values".
their definition though, is based on interpretations of the Bible. Hard to get more traditional than that.

drisky said:
And war is a complicated issue that varies from war to war, winning your independence took a war so really the way you put it your first statement contradicts your last.
Well, they "tend" to be against war. Your right, that does vary a lot from war to war. I, personally am against any and all aggressive war against countries that didn't attack us. That means that their has yet to be a war in my life that i supported. I would have no problem with defending the country however.

I would like to point out that the revolution was also motivated by the interests of some very wealthy people in the colonies and the average person most likely did not feel that oppressed by their tyrannical overlords. I included that on my list of "good" things just because i enjoy the irony of the same group that preaches nationalism, making up a very significant portion of the opposition to the revolution that founded the nation.

drisky said:
Just so you know I am liberal on most issues, but you have to understand the opinions of your opposition, other wise your going to have a hard time arguing against them.
pleased to meet you.
Yes I figured when I posted that you would be able to better defend the points made.Also after I made it I tried to think of new liberal ideas that went though in america that ended up being the wrong choice but I couldn't think of any, of coarse we wouldn't be as much as a superpower as we were today If we constantly made bad decisions (prohibition is one of the old ones, but that was a conservative law). It really does still give conservatism a bad track record when you look back on it. Also find the irony about quite enjoyable, particularly when Glen Beck was talking about how progressivism is evil, so apparently he still thinks all of those points you raised are evil not just the new ones. Buts thats Glen Beck, its his job to say crazy things.
 

angelbe2232

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Feb 2, 2011
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Unions are good idea when workers are being taken advantage of unfairly.
But, nowadays, it seems that Teacher's Unions protect all teachers, which sometimes is not a good thing. When a teacher is a bad teacher, does not teach and give you quips like "I get paid whether you learn or not", they do not deserve protection from being fired. Tenure was designed to protect college professors from being fires for arbitrary reasons. Not teaching is not an arbitrary reasoning. An Accountant would be fired for not doing payroll, and a Doctor would be fired for not doing their job. Tenure, and the Teachers Union that has made Tenure an automatic arrangement for all teachers, are just wrong. We are doing students wrong by giving them these teachers.
But, Ahm. Go watch 'Waiting for Superman'. Excellent expose on the American Education System.

As for me, I stand by the Governor on this.