Poll: What is your stance on Guns?

DeltaEdge

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May 21, 2010
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Even if you took away the guns legally, then that would still leave the criminals with guns anyways. good law abiding people would lose their guns and the criminals would continue to use them because they are criminals which means that now the law abiders have even less protection and this will probably empower the criminals even more.
 

rigabear

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Nov 16, 2010
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1) I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I'd like to put this to bed:
Often I hear people saying 'Criminals get their guns illegally, so there is no point in having guns illegal'

So were do these illegal guns come from?
The vast majority are taken from law abiding citizens, through theft, robbery, etc.

Therefore by taking the guns away from the law abiding citizens, you take away this HUGE source of illegal firearms.

Considering that the use of guns in crime in (developed) countries in which firearms are illegal is considerably lower makes this hard to dispute.

2)
Exactly. The entire idea of the civil defense argument is rediculous. Either the soldiers are loyal to the country, and will completely fucking massacre you, or the soldiers will refuse their orders and, as a result, you don't need guns to defend yourself anyway.
Quoted for truth.

3) Suicides in countries where guns are legal are much more likely to be successful. And don't think that if someone attempts suicide but fails they'll just try until they suceed - such a 'cry for help' can often usher in measures that deter subsequent attempts (drugs, therapy, etc - the desire to commit suicide is not a permanent thing).

4) More guns = more crime is hotly debated
*Warning, the following is just speculation*

I'd wager that legal guns would make crime much more lethal (i.e. a robbery is more likely to result in serious injury) but somewhat less common.
If a criminal has a gun drawn on a civilian, for the majority, attempting to defend themselves with a concealed hand gun would not be advisable.

Often the following scenario is proposed: the criminal has something like a baseball bat (or is otherwise less well armed) and the victim has a gun.
Obviously in such a scenario it is beneficial for the victim to be armed (although it could result in unnecessary harm being caused to the assailant), but so what? It could be either way.
If the victim had a taser and the assailant was unarmed the comparison would be the same.
So that particular point is somewhat irrelevant.

5) I'm against the police carrying guns because the police are fallible.

And to me, a policeman using a gun is the nuclear option - there is no middle ground. If a gun is draw on a criminal and they do not submit - do they shoot? What if the crime is in no way proportionate to being shot (possibly killed)?

Non-lethal weapons (tasers, for example) represent a much more flexible response. Guns are not necessary in a society where guns are not common place.


I'm from the UK - bet you didn't guess that [/sarcasm].
 

Shock and Awe

Winter is Coming
Sep 6, 2008
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I think civilians should have access to firearms, just not Automatic weapons because civilians have no need for them, many militaries don't even field Full-auto weapons for standard small arms.
 

SilentCom

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Mar 14, 2011
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Zaverexus said:
I say no guns. I don't trust the average person to know when it would be necessary, if there is such a time; and even intelligent people could make mistakes. They are much more potential trouble than they are potential solutions.
I would say law enforcement should have firearms, but if so they should be counted and checked back into a secure armory at the end of a shift; and I think this would just increase the risk of someone breaking into police stations for firearms with everyone defenseless. It's probably safer to have everyone on equal footing. Give the cops stunguns if you think they need them, whatever.
Considering you live in America, you should know that many "average-looking" people walking the streets probably do carry a concealed gun... Also, so many potential problems can be resolved with firearms.

Law enforcement already carry guns on themselves, they even store shotguns in the trunk of their patrol cars... As a matter of fact, law enforcement are issued even stronger, often automatic weaponry when the shit hits the fan (S.W.A.T.). Oh yes, one more things, breaking into the police station where a bunch of well trained and well armed officers who have authority to shoot you dead if you attempt robbery and violence to get to their armory is a really stupid idea. Even breaking into a gunshop isn't that smart, seeing that many gunshop owners are packing as well.
 

Smagmuck_

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rigabear said:
Often I hear people saying 'Criminals get their guns illegally, so there is no point in having guns illegal'

So were do these illegal guns come from?
The vast majority are taken from law abiding citizens, through theft, robbery, etc.

Therefore by taking the guns away from the law abiding citizens, you take away this HUGE source of illegal firearms.
The illegal firearms already out there aren't just going to poof away, sure you'll stop them from getting their hands on new ones, but the ones they already have won't just disappear.
 

SilentCom

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Zenode said:
Personally I think the Gun Culture is so engrained into American culture I don't think it is leaving anytime soon.

I for one all for gun control and think they should be banned amongst the general public.
Kind of like how people wanted alcohol to be banned in the 1920s? It's not going to happen and if some politician attempts to do so, it'll end up much worse than the gang activities in the 20s.

I personally like firearms, as much for their historical value as their practical value. My answer to those who don't like guns is simply don't use them and don't go near them. Most civilians in America who get shot are those who have a run in with bad crowds, such as gangs or other such illegal activites.
 

Azurian

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Oct 27, 2010
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Well when the zombie invasion happens I plan to have my piece by my side. Other than that I really don't like to be around guns.
 

Grell Sutcliff

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May 25, 2011
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like they say it's better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it. Anyways I think we should have more than just small pistols but no where near what the millitary has our shotguns would be crap compared to the millitary shotguns.

One event to go by is that one country or state or whatever it was that made guns illegal for the public and within like a week they had to reverse the decision because of how high the crime rates were getting. It's common knowledge that if you make guns illegal then the people that commit crimes will still have them while the law abiding citizens are left without anything to defend themselves with.
 

WouldYouKindly

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Apr 17, 2011
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You should mess with your poll. An 'other' option would be nice.

I end up somewhere in between the first and second yes options. Weapons like shotguns and hunting rifles should and do have less regulation. These guns are not specifically designed to kill people, though they certainly will do the job and thus require some regulation. I definitely think that restrictions on pistols and semi-auto shotguns and rifles should be there. I think there should be classes for the use of any weapon specifically designed to kill people and extra safety classes concerning children for pistol owners. After all, a kid isn't going to walk out of the door with a rifle or a shotgun.
 

Grell Sutcliff

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May 25, 2011
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Smagmuck_ said:
The illegal firearms already out there aren't just going to poof away, sure you'll stop them from getting their hands on new ones, but the ones they already have won't just disappear.
plus won't the criminals just start making their own guns over time like how some drug dealers grow their own plants.
 

Acting like a FOOL

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Jun 7, 2010
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Fact: Gun Control does next to nothing to prevent guncrime.

why?

1.in America ,specifically, there is a situation known as "Gun Saturation" in which guns have such a high circulation amongst private individuals that gun laws only insure the disarmament of law-abiding citizens.
2. The criminals that continue to use guns are usually related to gans or other forms of organized crime. (usually drug trafficking bolstered by the price hikes of illegal substances)

3. since law abiding citizens are defenseless, they are easier targets. so essientially gun laws create more victims than it protects. the only gun free zones that secure are the ones that can afford defense agencies or federal security.

low income sections of the nation with lots of gun control suffer the most violence due to the converence of all these factors.

"Gun control and crime" by Benedict D. LaRosa, October 2002

In 1976, Washington, D.C., instituted one of the strictest gun-control laws in the country. The murder rate since that time has risen 134 percent (77.8 per 100,000 population) while the overall rate for the country has declined 2 percent. Washington, D.C., politicians find it easy to blame Virginia?s less-stringent gun laws for the D.C. murder rate. Yet Virginia Beach, Virginia?s largest city with almost 400,000 residents, has had one of the lowest rates of murder in the country ? 4.1 per 100,000.

In New York City, long known for strict regulation of all types of weapons, only 19 percent of the 390 homicides in 1960 involved pistols. By 1972, this proportion had jumped to 49 percent of 1,691. In 1973, according to the New York Times, there were only 28,000 lawfully possessed handguns in the nation?s largest city, but police estimated that there were as many as 1.3 million illegal handguns there.

In 1986, Maryland banned small, affordable handguns called Saturday night specials. Within two years, Maryland?s murder rate increased by 20 percent, surpassing the national murder rate by 33 percent. Then Maryland passed a one-gun-a-month law. Yet between 1997 and 1998, 600 firearms recovered from crime scenes were traced to Maryland gun stores. Virginia, one of only two other states with a similar law, ranked third as a source of guns used by criminals in other states.

On the other hand, New Hampshire has almost no gun control and its cities are rated among the safest in the country. Across the border in Massachusetts, which has very stringent gun-control laws, cities of comparable size have two to three times as much crime as New Hampshire.

Vermont has the least restrictive gun-control law. It recognizes the right of any Vermonter who has not otherwise been prohibited from owning a firearm to carry concealed weapons without a permit or license. Yet Vermont has one of the lowest crime rates in America, ranking 49 out of 50 in all crimes and 47th in murders.

States which have passed concealed-carry laws have seen their murder rate fall by 8.5 percent, rapes by 5 percent, aggravated assaults by 7 percent and robbery by 3 percent.

Texas is a good example. In the early 1990s, Texas?s serious crime rate was 38 percent above the national average. Since then, serious crime in Texas has dropped 50 percent faster than for the nation as a whole. All this happened after passage of a concealed-carry law in 1994.

hat about the experience of other countries? In 1997, just 12 months after a new gun law went into effect in Australia, homicides jumped 3.2 percent, armed robberies 44 percent, and assaults 8.6 percent. In the state of Victoria, homicides went up 300 percent. Before the law was passed, statistics showed a steady decrease in armed robberies with firearms. In 1998, in the state of South Australia, robbery with a firearm increased nearly 60 percent. In 1999, the assault rate in New South Wales rose almost 20 percent.

In England, which has the strictest gun-control laws of the developed nations and which had outlawed all handguns and most firearms, the Sunday Express of June 20, 1999, reported,

?In recent months there have been a frightening number of shootings in Britain?s major cities, despite new laws [Firearms Act of 1997] banning gun ownership after the Dunblane tragedy. Our investigation established that guns are available through means open to any criminally minded individual.?

The Manchester Guardian of January 14, 1999, lamented that their city was being called ?Gunchester.? Police sources were quoted as saying that guns had become ?almost a fashion accessory? among young criminals. Some gangs are armed with fully automatic weapons. The police risk confronting teenagers on mountain bikes brandishing machine guns. A 1971 Cambridge University study showed that in heavily gun-controlled Great Britain, ?the use of firearms in crime was very much less before 1920 when Britain had no controls of any sort.?

In fact, crime has increased so much in Australia, Canada, and Britain, all of which have strict gun-control laws, that the Wall Street Journal has since reported that the crime rate for burglary in America is now substantially lower than in those three countries.

Gun control abroad

In Switzerland, every draft-age male is required to maintain a firearm in his home, yet the Swiss murder rate is only 15 percent of the U.S. rate. An added benefit is that no foreign enemy has invaded Switzerland in centuries. Israel, which has the most heavily armed populace, has a negligible crime rate.

But the record of strict gun regulations in other countries is quite dismal. In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents were rounded up and exterminated. In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians were exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938. and from 1939 to 1945 13 million Jews and others were exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935; from 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents were exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964, and from 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians were exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970 ? from 1971 to 1979, 300,000 people were exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956, and from 1975 to 1977 one million educated people were exterminated.

In a more recent example, the British Broadcasting Company reported on May 10, 2000, that the United Nations convinced the people of Sierra Leone to turn in their private weapons for UN protection during the recent civil war. The result was disastrous. The people ended up defenseless when UN troops, unable to protect even themselves, were taken hostage by rebels moving on the capital of Freetown.

Estimates run as high as 56 million people who have been exterminated in the 20th century because gun control left them defenseless.

The Columbine shootings

On Thursday, May 27, 1999, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, addressed a subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee. He pointed out that the first recorded act of violence occurred when Cain slew his brother Abel:

?The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the ... the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain?s heart.?

He went on to say,

?In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA [National Rifle Association]. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA because I don?t believe that they are responsible for my daughter?s death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended.?

He added,

?When something as terrible as Columbine?s tragedy occurs, politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan [perpetrators of the Columbine massacre] would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre.... Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers.?

Crime and gun control

Besides their inherent disregard for laws, criminals are protected from many of the requirements imposed upon law-abiding citizens. The U.S. Supreme ruled in the case of Hayes v. U.S. (390 U.S. 85, 1968) that because it would be incriminating, a criminal cannot be required to register a gun or be charged with possession of an unregistered gun. The Court said,

We hold that a proper claim of the constitutional privilege against self-incrimination provides a full defense to prosecution either for failure to register a firearm ... or for possession of an unregistered firearm.

According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF), 93 percent of the guns used in crimes are not obtained through lawful purchase, so waiting periods, registration, and licensing schemes don?t work anyway.

Forensic psychologist Dr. Helen Smith has evaluated 5,000 mentally disturbed adults and children from Harlem to Tennessee. Her book, The Scarred Heart (Callisto Publishing Co., Knoxville, Tenn.), is based on her experience interviewing violent children and teenagers and reflects the findings of her national survey of violent and nonviolent youths aged 10-19. She labels many gun-control proposals as simply ?feel-good solutions.?

In conclusion, gun control is an ineffective tool in fighting crime and is counterproductive to that end because it leaves people vulnerable to criminals. Decades of gun control have done nothing to stop crime, save lives, or make our streets safer. People who use violence are not likely to feel constrained by gun-control laws. (As one theoretical criminal is purported to have said, ?Laws is for the law-abiding, and we ain?t, so they don?t apply to us.?)

Gun control and self-defense

People who obey gun-control laws are less able to defend themselves against those who don?t obey those same laws. Moreover, there is no reason to believe that a war on guns will rid American society of guns any more than the war on drugs has eradicated drugs from our society. Those who wish to purchase illegal guns will be able to do so on the black market as easily as they purchase drugs.

The consequence of gun control is a society in which violent, anti-social people are armed while peaceful, law-abiding people are disarmed. Legislating gun safety results in greater safety for criminals only. Laws intended to keep guns from criminals end up keeping guns from some of the thousands of people who could use them to defend themselves and others daily, often without having to fire a shot.

Guns, which take innocent lives, also save innocent lives. A person left defenseless in time of need by a gun-control law feels no comfort at the thought that somewhere someone might not be killed because of that law. Registering automobiles and licensing drivers has not prevented drive-by shootings, road rage, bank robberies, drug deals, or any crime in which automobiles are used. Perhaps the question should be, if you had to defend yourself, would you feel more comfortable with or without a gun?

Common sense dictates that inanimate objects, such as guns, are not responsible for human behavior. We don?t hold a match responsible for arson or a camera responsible for pornography. We rightly hold the people who misuse these tools liable. The same should be true for guns. As a judge stated in the 1878 Arkansas case of Wilson v. State,

If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege.

If we don?t heed the advice of that wise judge, we may find ourselves fulfilling the prophecy of an unknown prophet who said, ?Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who don?t.?
 

Dawns Gate

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May 2, 2011
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I don't really believe guns should be owned by civilians, my family owns a few different rifles that we use for hunting (we only kill what we will eat, and then we sell the rest) and that really should be the extent of it.
 

Aurora Firestorm

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May 1, 2008
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I want to be allowed my guns because I love the shooting range. I simply like the idea of seeing how much precision I can teach myself, and I think guns are slick weapons if you do them right.

Besides, if you ban guns, you'll just open up a black market and it'll be horrible. Look at drugs, and prostitution, and all that. It happens. It just goes underground and gets really unsafe, even moreso than it already is.
 

Acting like a FOOL

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genericusername64 said:
We Americans get a lot of flack for allowing guns for self defense,is it deserved? I don't have any children so I'm in no danger of them playing with it, so I could keep one, I don't. I don't want to kill someone, and if someone breaks into my apartment to steal something I'll just hit them in the head with something. The self defense theory is rather contradictory, more crimes are committed with a gun than stopped with a gun, or at least it seems that way to me.

What do you think?

Edit Editing the poll doesn't work, sorry guys
Edit 2: I live in North Carolina and I don't use a gun, and neither does any part of my family so some stereotypes are false
Trust me on this,love. In a gun saturated nation Like the U.S. the only people that are made safer by gun control laws are those who live in the upscale districts of cities that have a high police presence to insure that the top tax payers are secure in their residence. for the poorest of the poor living in neighborhoods rife with buff knuckleheads chasing the profit incentive o illegal drug trafficking no-body excet their friends and next of kin cares if they die. the police certainly don't help since they're likely to shoot or arrest anything that twitches. and crimes being events of opportunity, the police are only to arrive AFTER the fact. only those involved in an incident are capable of preventing a crime. to decrease violence in society is to decrease violence in the people because gun laws don't cut it. in the mean time people need to be able to defend themselves while solutions to the social ill of violence are being found. I for one say that we end child neglect and abuse, fix our educational system, legalize drugs for monitoring and regulation and promote civil solidarity in the communities of the nation.
 

Jacco

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May 1, 2011
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FreakSheet said:
I know Americans are all about guns, saying the constitution allows it, but never acknowledge that when the constitution was created, guns fired roughly once every 30 secs, if you were good, and were not that accurate. Now you have sniper rifles, automatics, and even pistols are way more deadly than what they used to have.
You had to be very damn good to average 30 seconds. The average person back then averaged between 60 and 75 seconds between shots amd someone untrained could take as long as two minutes.


OT: I think it is a good thing civilians are allowed firearms. Despite what people would like to think, the prospect of someone having a weapon in a place they are thinking about robbing/shooting up is a good deterrent as well as a deterrent to government hostility. That being said, I think it should be more difficult to obtain carry/concealed carry permits. Simple ownership is fine the way it is. For carry/CC permits, I would be in favor of putting people through a type of "boot camp" that will teach them how to use proper discretion in a firefight and tactical thinking to keep themselves from getting killed. On top of that, it should come with the expectation that since you can carry a weapon in public and know what to do and how to react in the event of something happening, you are expected to intervene just as someone who gets certified in CPR or First Aid is.
 

Fudd

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Nov 9, 2010
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The United States is too heavily armed to be disarmed. That said. Its high level of small-arms (handguns) armament certainly contributes to its measurably higher murder rate as compared to other developed nations and to the increased lethality of disputes when they do occur.
 

MICKnight1

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May 25, 2010
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I love guns, in video games. In day to day life, I don't see the need.
Hunting? Sure. Going to the firing range? Of course. Picking up a gallon of milk? Now you've lost me.

As far as home defense is concerned, wouldn't a good defense be better? A home security system and functioning locks go a long way.

Then there is the matter of personal defense, which I find laughable. I have never once seen a gun stop a bullet, yet somehow people believe that having a gun will keep them safe if some hypothetical criminal /gang member /"bad guy" should come at them with a gun.
I'm not against gun ownership, but I'm for regulation.
Will regulation take guns away from the criminal element? No, unfortunately criminals will always be drawn to things that can kill.
However, for most Americans, such unsavory characters can be easily avoided, and they are. We just happen to suffer under sensationalist media that chooses to exploit the few rare instances of random gun violence to drum up fear and ratings.
You don't need a gun to keep you safe, you need to think and avoid situations where you might need a gun, (which are surprisingly few.)

Finally there is the Second Amendment. I won't say that it was written in a different time for different people with different weapons. Guns were lethal before 1791, and how long it takes to load one doesn't matter. But what I have trouble with is how the second amendment actually reads.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Most everyone claims that this means that anyone can have a gun; and if I ignore the first half of the amendment, I would agree. However, unlike most people, (the supreme court included,) I can't ignore it.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," Does anyone know what such a body would be? It's the National Guard! I'm all for the National Guard having any weapons they require. The average man on the street? Not so much.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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Simalacrum said:
Britain, really, should be a shining example of why guns really aren't necessary for self-defence, and actually makes situations worse most of the time.

Gun crime here is some of the lowest on the planet. Gangs don't arm themselves with guns, because cops don't. Neither side escalates the 'arms race', so to speak, because both sides are safer that way. Sure, whenever some lone nut decides to pick up an illegally-attained weapon and go crazy, it kinda sucks, but such incidences are ridiculously rare and the police here are very wary of any warnings of a gun. A single weapon even sighted generally results in MP5-armed uber police being called in before so much as a trigger is pulled.

Heck, we're even tight on knife-weilding here, which is a significantly bigger problem than guns.

Point is, while gun culture would be virtually impossible to remove from countries like the US, I do think that country would be better off if people didn't have guns. Best way to stop people killing each other is to remove the tools to kill from both sides.
That's great and all, except the UK has a higher violent crime rate than the USA.

http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/crime-in-uk-versus-crime-in-us.html

Gun control does not alter criminal behavior in any appreciable fashion. It simply means they turn to alternate means to achieve their aims. From what I understand of the UK, that's predominately knives, shivs and other assorted blades.

You're right in that gun crime in the UK is way low, but everything else is significantly higher. Enough so that I would say the benefits are negligible.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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MICKnight1 said:
Finally there is the Second Amendment. I won't say that it was written in a different time for different people with different weapons. Guns were lethal before 1791, and how long it takes to load one doesn't matter. But what I have trouble with is how the second amendment actually reads.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Most everyone claims that this means that anyone can have a gun; and if I ignore the first half of the amendment, I would agree. However, unlike most people, (the supreme court included,) I can't ignore it.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," Does anyone know what such a body would be? It's the National Guard! I'm all for the National Guard having any weapons they require. The average man on the street? Not so much.
The generally accepted interpretation of the second amendment is not militia in the form of the National Guard. That is, effectively, a branch of the army and simply another extension of the government.

Militia, in the language used in the Constitution, generally equates to "Rebellion". Take it in context, they had just finished fighting an armed insurrection against a vastly superior force. They wanted to ensure if the government were to ever step out of line, the people would have the means, knowledge and wherewithal to topple it.

It's actually fairly clear if you study the Founders and what their belief systems were. Most all of them were Libertarians by today's definition, with their political views essentially being summed up by "Government is a necessary evil, and we must remember that no matter how necessary it is, it is still evil."

The Founders were big on individual liberty and personal responsibility. That's why we have the Bill of Rights in the first place.