You're not supposed to admit it. How are we going to take over the world from the shadows if you keep telling them we exist?Grace_Omega said:I'm trans. Represent.
You're not supposed to admit it. How are we going to take over the world from the shadows if you keep telling them we exist?Grace_Omega said:I'm trans. Represent.
That seems ludicrously high to me. Although it is true that more and more people these days know someone, or a few someones, who are gay or bi or trans, mostly because it is gradually becoming more okay for these people to come out, nearly a third of the global population seems extremely improbable. Maybe if you ask about the Kinsey scale and include things like "had a gay experience or two but don't identify as gay" you could get up to 30%.Sigmund Av Volsung said:around 30% or so?
is far closer to reality, even accounting for underreporting from people who aren't comfortable outing themselves. This is all "guesstimation," though, mostly, so who really knows for sure? After all, our own informal poll here is reporting nearly 30%. But that number is likely skewed by the kinds of people who are interested in participating in a discussion like this.DisasterSoiree said:between ~15.5-17%
Most of the gay rights movement is by completely average people, but you forget that immediately because the extremely stereotypical guys are louder. They also get more screen time because that kind of person is just Hollywood shorthand for "I don't want to put in any effort." And the Gay Pride Parade is just their Mardi Gras, so if we're going to base sexuality by that behaviour, all of you straight people are degenerates that trade breast exposure for shiny objects, like slutty magpies. Although to give you a point, I really wish they would stop calling it the Gay Pride Parade, as it does make people believe all gays are like that, like you seem to. Gay Mardi Gras sounds better anyway.Matthewmagic said:That being said I despise the LBGT movement. It has the right motivation but an eye rolling attempt at execution. If you dress in a thong and run around like a sexual deviant do not be surprised when grandma and grandpa think you are a sexual deviants.
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I do despise it, it is frustrating and it causes problems in my life. It is also a purely practical point. Being one of many people in the center of this issue I'm not free from bias. Yes it is self expression, and no it is not harmless. Yes it is a double standard but double standards are everywhere and do not disappear when we pretend they don't exist.Silvanus said:My argument is that your hostility is misplaced. Others have already made the points that, 1) You're taking issue with harmless self-expression, and 2) You're applying a double-standard. My (further) argument is that you're blaming a demographic for the misrepresentation it suffers in the media. The media is the perpetrator of that misrepresentation. People shouldn't be restricted because of the idiocy of others, and nobody should be blamed for the actions of completely different people.Matthewmagic said:Yes and that "imbalanced" image is what shows up in the american conscious. You need to be able to prove they are not damaging to have a valid argument not that the perception is wrong. I know the perception is wrong.
Now, if you were making a purely practical point, that would be one thing, but I don't think you are. You used the word "despise".
Yes I think you should stop allowing yourself to be the face of the gay rights movement. Duh. Kinda the central point of my argument. Maybe 30 years down the line when there are gay american culture festivals you will have a place being the face of that. Until our right are won we need a respectable face of the movement. This is exactly what I mean by poor execution. You allow yourself to distract from the message and intentionally or otherwise hurt the cause.Jesterscup said:So I should hide because the way I choose to look reinforces those damaging prejudices? If I do that then the bigots have won. I'm sorry they affect your life, but don't blame me for them.
While I won't pretend to know your life, I will say that I can relate to your experience and sympathize with "categorization". My sexual history defines me as bisexual but functionally I'm homosexual. However, I did not come to that realization until much later in life.Saika Renegade said:I am a bisexual male, but don't often say so to many people in person, primarily due to unpleasant remarks from people across the sexuality spectrum.
Regarding the tolerance thing, I've had the uncomfortable experience of receiving bigoted remarks from both heterosexual and homosexual individuals in the same day, with some of the former saying I'm an abomination by the rules of one or more religions and some of the latter claiming I'm merely lying to myself about really being homosexual so I can feel better about myself or try to be more accepted by heterosexual people (clearly not having witnessed the statements made by heterosexual people towards me due to my bisexuality). Individuals from both sides have effectively called me a greedy, noncommittal slut simply for being romantically and sexually attracted to both men and women. Considering I've had monogamous relationships lasting years with men and women in my life, such accusations hardly feel fair, but it definitely suggests there's some degree of social stigma in being both male and bisexual if the lack of acceptance is any indication.
All I have to say on the matter is anyone that set solely in binary ways of thinking is not going to help bridge this particular gap any time soon.
In fact, they tend to get stronger when we intentionally perpetuate them.Matthewmagic said:Yes it is a double standard but double standards are everywhere and do not disappear when we pretend they don't exist.
Well we can worry about fixing double standards when we have our rights. Around that time we can cure cancer, and take a rainbow boat to the land of fantasy.Silvanus said:In fact, they tend to get stronger when we intentionally perpetuate them.Matthewmagic said:Yes it is a double standard but double standards are everywhere and do not disappear when we pretend they don't exist.
I want to move on from this, because we're never going to see eye to eye.Matthewmagic said:Well we can worry about fixing double standards when we have our rights. Around that time we can cure cancer, and take a rainbow boat to the land of fantasy.Silvanus said:In fact, they tend to get stronger when we intentionally perpetuate them.Matthewmagic said:Yes it is a double standard but double standards are everywhere and do not disappear when we pretend they don't exist.
And yet, you don't really get into them. Unless you mean your own. For example:Matthewmagic said:A lot of strawman arguments and false equivalencies are made here.
I didn't really claim you said the former, so....You seem to miss the point I never said "People are prejudice and that is awesome" I said "People are prejudice and that is just the way it is.
And now you're just proclaiming all of them to be. Why? Well, I don't know. Or care. That's absurd.Which I feel is true and until you can show otherwise every argument you make is a strawman argument.
And?Because football does not have the same stigma as homosexuality.