Poll: What's your religion?

[LadyZephyr]

"If Religion does provide a stable social structure that protects Mankind from it's own worst excesses, wouldn't it be prudent to have it, even if there is proof of Non-Divinity?"

That would be willful ignorance, so no.

Here's where I find this a little odd, because you'll believe in ideas like Communism and Capitalism which are equally nonsensical. (Communism fails because of Greed, Capitalism fails due to finite resources)

And I don't believe religion is needed to keep a just and good society.

But a Moral Code of Laws is, surely? And Religion does do a reasonable job of that, which Science is yet to provide.

I think religion promotes inequality and prejudice more than it doesn't. Many times in history when religion was the focus of society, things were Bad (i.e. Dark Ages, modern Middle Eastern countries, etc).

Hrrm...that seems to be fallacious reasoning. The Dark Ages was due to Religion questioning the power of Science (where the reverse is true today), and the Middle East is far more due to the family traditions than Islam. Pol Pot and Adolf did a lot more damage through 'Enlightened Science'.

I think that it is to the benefit to society to be just and kind and to have structure. Religion has nothing to do with it. If the world became atheist, there would be no big surge in crime. I'd argue there would be a drop in it, if anything.

As for God setting up the laws of science... I'm not sure I understand. Science continues to prove God is not necessary to explain why the universe is the way it is... I think the sort of god you are referring to is not "God" at all, but a catch-all term for order and structure in nature.

Ok, let's take a reworking of Genesis for Modern Times:

* First day: God creates electromagnetic radiation. ("Let there be light!")
* Second day: God creates weak gravitational forces, separating the Earth from the sky.
* Third day: God creates strong gravitational forces. The Seas part. He also creates the ability for cells to mutate.
* Fourth day: God creates Fusion, allowing the Sun to light the Earth.
* Fifth day: God strikes the Sea with Electricity, bringing forth the first mutations.
* Sixth day: God accelerates the mutations on the land and sea, forming hundreds of creatures at random. The ones that didn't survive are left for the others to feed on, and possibly produces fossils. One race mutates the knowledge of self-awareness and God declares that one Adam and Eve.
* Seventh day: God creates time (thus allowing for the day of rest) and watches to see what happens.

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking what atheists would believe if we discovered a scientific proof of the existence of the gods? If so, I'd have to ask the question: which gods? You seem to be referring to Yaweh, the god of Abraham. I'd be very interested to see the experiment that determined the universe was created by Yaweh, and not, say, Ahura-Mazda (another monotheist emanation of the Tetragrammaton).

I'm asking what happens if Science becomes equal to Divinity, where we are able to create our own Universe. At that point, it doesn't really matter if it's God, Buddha or who/whatever because we ourselves will be Gods.

Random chance at that point reaches an infinitely low point, because we will have proven it's more reasonable to assume that "God" exists rather than doesn't.

1. You assume I support Capitalism or Communism. I don't.

2. I was raised with minimal religion. I have a strong Moral Code. It is not the same as society-as-a-whole's. I'm part of the school of thought that says humans are evolved beings and our moral code stems from that.

3. Reworking of Genesis: Why not take out God all together? Science is getting closer and closer to explaining how the universe began. Once that is discovered (unless someone stumbles upon God himself), there will be no need for any deity.

4. But... Science is not Divinity and never will be. Science is explained by empirical evidence. Divinity is the exact opposite. As Science progresses more, it won't morph into Divinity because... that's not what Science is.

And if we "become" gods? No no. Gods are absolute beings with absolute power. We may evolve into something grand and wonderous, but since we have an evolutionary origin, we are not "gods". I believe the old saying is "sufficiently advanced technology is indiscernible from magic"? Well, a sufficiently advanced creature is indiscernible from god.


Aaaaand I honestly don't understand your last point. Sorry. ?

 

[dombot]

i normally say antitheist, but i object to defining myself by something i am against

 

[GothmogII]

Unfortunately for you, those who practice Hinduism and Buddhism have also both shed blood.

I think the point he was trying to make was that Buddhist never killed people in the name of Buddhism and never forced anyone to convert to Buddhism under threat of death.

Perhaps. But whatever the reasons, Hindus and Buddhists have killed human beings for the sake of their faith. The reasons for the killings are seldom of any great importance to the dead, or those who cared for them.

Believers (and unbelievers) of all stripes need to be wary of the xenophobia and hatred of the "other" within themselves. We're all vulnerable.

Unfortunately I have heard of one instance when a sect of Buddhists [link="http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1726/17260840.htm"]fought{/link] in regards to religion.

I haven't read enough yet to make an opinion on the matter, but it is an obscure subject at the moment.

While I rather enjoy Zen Buddhist teachings or practices, I've never been a fan of religion requiring hierarchy.

This is all news to me. From what I've heard and researched myself, the only "violent" sect of Buddhist were those of the Shaolin Temple in China, who developed fighting arts that because kung fu and almost every other martial art through out the Eastern Asian continent. And these were developed soley for self-defense and excersise.

I could be wrong, but any sect of Buddhist monks who conduct violent activities are more along the lines of extremists in my eyes, and are corrupting the very clear message of non-violence in the earliest Buddhist teachings.

Yes, but the monks themselves aren't the only followers. Although, it could be said that any violent person who claims to be a Buddhist isn't really a Buddhist. And of course the same could be said of a Christian or devotee of any other following who primary goal seems to be living in harmony with their fellow person.

Then again...people do have, or try to justify reasons for such violence, i.e. the protection of ones loved ones etc. But, that gets twisted far too easily.

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

I like to say I am a nihilist, however, although I accept the "tenets" of nihilism, I choose to ignore them.

So, I'll call myself a Bizarro-Nihilist.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

Once that is discovered (unless someone stumbles upon God himself), there will be no need for any deity.

Haha.
Not taking the piss, the thought of that just really made me laugh.
Like someone walks into a pub starts a chat with the guy next to him then asks him his name.
"Oh, I'm God".

But keeping on that idea, when the "world comes to an end", isn't there meant to be a final messiah? But surely if someone comes up to you and tells you that they've seen the truth and that the world is coming to an end... would anyone buy that? They'd get put away.

 

[nmmoore13]

Here's where I find this a little odd, because you'll believe in ideas like Communism and Capitalism which are equally nonsensical. (Communism fails because of Greed, Capitalism fails due to finite resources)

Just gonna jump in here. I'll admit communism is as nonsensical as religion but capitalism? Capitalism is the only just moral system there is! Finite resources?! What?!? That makes NO sense.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Some other stuff and...

Aaaaand I honestly don't understand your last point. Sorry. ?

1) Fair enough. Good call.
2) Interesting. What is your moral code (roughly)?
3) Because I'm not trying to disprove God's existence, just trying to show how it 'could' fit in around Science.
4) Once we reach a certain point though (And we are heading to that point very quickly. Nanotech should just about do it), there will be no one person who can accurately define what Science is and isn't, because of the multitude of factors influencing every experiment. If we do discover the Higg's Boson, for example, that requires a reworking of all the work of Einstein, Newton, Copernicus and any other 'atomic' theories.

Now, if we can unlock the Human Genome, or DNA, we can perform almost any 'miracle' that used to fool us, so that even something as bizzare as pyrokinesis can be made available.

As for the last question, I think you've come close already. When Advanced Science becomes indistinguishable from Magic, how do we tell which is which?

Are we then not Gods(to all intents and purposes)? And if we are...how can we hold onto the idea that God(s) can't exist?
And if we're not, couldn't our 'God' just be another race that achieved that level of sophistication?

 

[nmmoore13]

Magic is the unexplainable, science, by definition, can be explained, so science will never become magic, and humans will never become gods.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Here's where I find this a little odd, because you'll believe in ideas like Communism and Capitalism which are equally nonsensical. (Communism fails because of Greed, Capitalism fails due to finite resources)

Just gonna jump in here. I'll admit communism is as nonsensical as religion but capitalism? Capitalism is the only just moral system there is! Finite resources?! What?!? That makes NO sense.

Uh...Capitalism works on the basis of the Pyramid Scheme, where the lower levels support the upper levels. If we are to believe that the system allows anyone to rise to the top, we need an infinite plateau of resources to allow that. What it doesn't allow for is the regeneration of said resources.

Last I looked, we had one planet and a seriously dwindling supply of fuel. Once the black stuff is gone, Capitalism folds like a Don King Boxing Match straight back into Anarchy.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Magic is the unexplainable, science, by definition, can be explained, so science will never become magic, and humans will never become gods.

But if the two are indistinguishable, doesn't that make us Pseudo-Gods?

 

[nmmoore13]

Here's where I find this a little odd, because you'll believe in ideas like Communism and Capitalism which are equally nonsensical. (Communism fails because of Greed, Capitalism fails due to finite resources)

Just gonna jump in here. I'll admit communism is as nonsensical as religion but capitalism? Capitalism is the only just moral system there is! Finite resources?! What?!? That makes NO sense.

You do not know what capitalism is, apparently. Capitalism isn't dependent on oil
Uh...Capitalism works on the basis of the Pyramid Scheme, where the lower levels support the upper levels. If we are to believe that the system allows anyone to rise to the top, we need an infinite plateau of resources to allow that. What it doesn't allow for is the regeneration of said resources.

Last I looked, we had one planet and a seriously dwindling supply of fuel. Once the black stuff is gone, Capitalism folds like a Don King Boxing Match straight back into Anarchy.

You obviously don't know what your talking about. Capitalism is not dependent on oil. That makes no sense.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Here's where I find this a little odd, because you'll believe in ideas like Communism and Capitalism which are equally nonsensical. (Communism fails because of Greed, Capitalism fails due to finite resources)

Just gonna jump in here. I'll admit communism is as nonsensical as religion but capitalism? Capitalism is the only just moral system there is! Finite resources?! What?!? That makes NO sense.

You do not know what capitalism is, apparently. Capitalism isn't dependent on oil
Uh...Capitalism works on the basis of the Pyramid Scheme, where the lower levels support the upper levels. If we are to believe that the system allows anyone to rise to the top, we need an infinite plateau of resources to allow that. What it doesn't allow for is the regeneration of said resources.

Last I looked, we had one planet and a seriously dwindling supply of fuel. Once the black stuff is gone, Capitalism folds like a Don King Boxing Match straight back into Anarchy.

You obviously don't know what your talking about. Capitalism is not dependent on oil. That makes no sense.

I'd quite like to think I do. Capitalism may not be intrinsically based around Oil, but the Economy is, and Capitalism is dependent on the Economy.

But, you're welcome to your opinion.

 

[BlackWaltz3]

Magic is the unexplainable, science, by definition, can be explained, so science will never become magic, and humans will never become gods.

What we consider to be science today surely would have been considered magic 100 years ago...

 

[Conqueror Kenny]

Atheist. A strong one at that. I don't believe in god, the bible should be in the fiction section of a bookshop, and if I'm wrong I'm going directly to hell.

 

[Snik]

I have a question for the athiests. I have been a fairly religeous person my entire life, so some of these things i can't quite wrap my head around and i'm sort of looking for someone to explain it.

Athiests don't believe in a higher power. yes?
Therfor don't believe in an afterlife?

So whats the point then? it's kind of depressing to think of the world as just one big fluke. you live and then die and... thats it? Why wouldn't everyone just kill themselves now then? I don't understand...

I think the guilt factor comes into it for a lot of people too (not everyone). They don't like someone telling them that what they're doing is wrong. Most people don't like it when that happens. So they turn to a belief that helps them to not feel bad about what they might be doing. BUT if this is the case, then shouldn't they not feel good about whatever good stuff they're doing? Whats the point of a basic set of morals if there's no reward after its all over?

 

[LadyZephyr]

Some other stuff and...

Aaaaand I honestly don't understand your last point. Sorry. ?

1) Fair enough. Good call.
2) Interesting. What is your moral code (roughly)?
3) Because I'm not trying to disprove God's existence, just trying to show how it 'could' fit in around Science.
4) Once we reach a certain point though (And we are heading to that point very quickly. Nanotech should just about do it), there will be no one person who can accurately define what Science is and isn't, because of the multitude of factors influencing every experiment. If we do discover the Higg's Boson, for example, that requires a reworking of all the work of Einstein, Newton, Copernicus and any other 'atomic' theories.

Now, if we can unlock the Human Genome, or DNA, we can perform almost any 'miracle' that used to fool us, so that even something as bizzare as pyrokinesis can be made available.

As for the last question, I think you've come close already. When Advanced Science becomes indistinguishable from Magic, how do we tell which is which?

Are we then not Gods(to all intents and purposes)? And if we are...how can we hold onto the idea that God(s) can't exist?
And if we're not, couldn't our 'God' just be another race that achieved that level of sophistication/

2. My moral code.... Hm. I believe that the greatest thing a person can live for is to add more knowledge to the world. I believe that all people of all colors and sexualities are equal. I believe there is more to live for than just your own agenda. I believe that should we ever clone someone, they instantly become their own person, not a science experiment. :shrugs: It's hard to summarize. In the end, it's "everyone is equal and if they are not, you should work to help them be so."

4. If our "god" is just another race, that is not a deity. That's just someone good with technology/who lucked out in evolution. The entire idea of god is that he is omnipotent, all-knowing, and absolute. God is a divine being who works outside or in spite of the laws of nature. He wouldn't evolve from anything.

And Nanotechnology is still science. As is DNA manipulation. We still understand it. A "miracle" causes by science is not a miracle. It's just an application of knowledge.

If we are perceived by other races as gods, that does not make us gods.

I'm sorry, but I think your whole argument is based on a false idea.

 

[Serious_Stalin]

Agnostic, I suppose there is a higher power but I do not assume it is benevolent which counts me out of the whole religiong thing.

 

[BlackWaltz3]

I have a question for the athiests. I have been a fairly religeous person my entire life, so some of these things i can't quite wrap my head around and i'm sort of looking for someone to explain it.

Athiests don't believe in a higher power. yes?
Therfor don't believe in an afterlife?

So whats the point then? it's kind of depressing to think of the world as just one big fluke. you live and then die and... thats it? Why wouldn't everyone just kill themselves now then? I don't understand...

I shall give you the Satanic opinion:

The purpose of life is LIVING.
That's it.
No room for misinterpretation there is it?^^