Poll: Which is more deserve to be Called System shock Spritual successor? Prey or Bioshock?

[Johnny Novgorod]

i have to say the one thing that didnt go through my head when playing bioshock was "wow this is like system shock"..

This! this so very much. Bioshock was a fantastic game, in fact it was probably a lot better than System Shock 2 (I did not suddenly find myself unable to progress and have to restart Bioshock halfway through like I did SS) but they were both very different games.

Bioshock was an FPS with some body horror. System Shock 2 was a stealth/horror/RPG/FPS with adventure game elements. I've never played Prey but it seems to convey the isolation that SS2 did in a way that Bioshock did not.

I don't if I'd call SS2 stealth. More like run past enemies similar to Dark Souls.

I also think that Bioshock had more horror. Maybe it's just Sande Cohen. Or the plastic surgeon. Maybe it was people you actually met that were doing cruel things, not a warped monstrosity. That's always more effective on me.

Jesus, and those plaster statues scuttling about as soon as you turn around?

 

[Aetrion]

I don't think either game can really be called a spiritual successor to System Shock, because at the end of the day all the gameplay systems in the world can't make up for the fact that SHODAN is the thing that makes System Shock memorable above all else, and Portal has done more in the department of having a mad AI taunt and threaten you the whole way than any game that merely continued the gameplay traditions of System Shock.

Prey I thought was absolutely excellent in terms of it's gameplay, I had tons of fun with that game, but the enemies were ultimately not very memorable outside of the mimics. They simply didn't have any personality. That inscrutable, totally alien menace was certainly interesting to confront, but it's thematically very different from being the thorn in the side of a technological god.

Bioshock was also an excellent game, with somewhat more memorable opponents, but it still doesn't even come close to having an iconic villain on par with SHODAN. Let alone the fact that they could transplant the whole setting and simply handwave all the carryover by saying "something something quantum multiverse" to me proves this isn't a thematic successor, but only a mechanical one.


At the end of the day System Shock simply isn't about the mechanics. In fact, System Shock 1 and 2 are extremely different games mechanically. The thing that really defines System Shock is SHODAN. System Shock is about a maniacal artificial deity that can harness every last manifestation of human knowledge as a weapon, and has a personal grudge against you. No matter how cleverly you remix the mechanics of those games, that aspect is ultimately what makes System Shock, and you can't be the successor to System Shock without it.

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

i have to say the one thing that didnt go through my head when playing bioshock was "wow this is like system shock"..

This! this so very much. Bioshock was a fantastic game, in fact it was probably a lot better than System Shock 2 (I did not suddenly find myself unable to progress and have to restart Bioshock halfway through like I did SS) but they were both very different games.

Bioshock was an FPS with some body horror. System Shock 2 was a stealth/horror/RPG/FPS with adventure game elements. I've never played Prey but it seems to convey the isolation that SS2 did in a way that Bioshock did not.

I don't if I'd call SS2 stealth. More like run past enemies similar to Dark Souls.

I also think that Bioshock had more horror. Maybe it's just Sande Cohen. Or the plastic surgeon. Maybe it was people you actually met that were doing cruel things, not a warped monstrosity. That's always more effective on me.

Jesus, and those plaster statues scuttling about as soon as you turn around?

Yeah, those creepy fuckers really got to me. I didn't even encounter them the first time I played the game, since they don't start moving until you hit a secret switch that I only found on a replay. I thought I'd seen every scary bit in the game, and then I pressed an innocent little button and those impossible freaks started following me everywhere, completely inanimate until I turned my back, and then they would scurry up right behind me faster than humanly possible. They were the weeping angels before the weeping angels.

 

[KayeFaye]

Narratively? BioShock wins. It actually has interesting characters, ideas, and themes. Prey does have interest ideas but they get very muddled in the end, and a lot of it just feels derivative.

In terms of everything else? Prey. Prey all the way. Prey has more of the actual mechanical depth that BioShock was lacking, yet doesn't go so far as to replicate the more B.S. parts of System Shock 2. I honestly have pretty much canonized Prey as System Shock 3 though, because it *literally is.* In a universe where Bethesda had the rights to System Shock and not Prey, they could have easily called this a System Shock reboot and no one would have whined until they noticed the distinct lack of SHODAN.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Who cares? System Shock has aged terribly. Archaic game mechanics and unintuitive design of its time have turned it into a relic. Bioshock is still very much playable and enjoyable. Prey looks boring so I won't bother with it.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

Who cares? System Shock has aged terribly. Archaic game mechanics and unintuitive design of its time have turned it into a relic. Bioshock is still very much playable and enjoyable. Prey looks boring so I won't bother with it.

System shock 2 is almost 20 years old game. and apart from some mechanics and graphics. its still very well played. infact i played it in 2013 after i played infinite and SS2 blew me away.

Bioshock is mediocre shooter and already dated after 10 years. Prey is better game however even thought its not greatest thing ever. it has terrible shooting mechanics but so in bioshock.

 

[Trunkage]

I don't think either game can really be called a spiritual successor to System Shock, because at the end of the day all the gameplay systems in the world can't make up for the fact that SHODAN is the thing that makes System Shock memorable above all else, and Portal has done more in the department of having a mad AI taunt and threaten you the whole way than any game that merely continued the gameplay traditions of System Shock.

Prey I thought was absolutely excellent in terms of it's gameplay, I had tons of fun with that game, but the enemies were ultimately not very memorable outside of the mimics. They simply didn't have any personality. That inscrutable, totally alien menace was certainly interesting to confront, but it's thematically very different from being the thorn in the side of a technological god.

Bioshock was also an excellent game, with somewhat more memorable opponents, but it still doesn't even come close to having an iconic villain on par with SHODAN. Let alone the fact that they could transplant the whole setting and simply handwave all the carryover by saying "something something quantum multiverse" to me proves this isn't a thematic successor, but only a mechanical one.


At the end of the day System Shock simply isn't about the mechanics. In fact, System Shock 1 and 2 are extremely different games mechanically. The thing that really defines System Shock is SHODAN. System Shock is about a maniacal artificial deity that can harness every last manifestation of human knowledge as a weapon, and has a personal grudge against you. No matter how cleverly you remix the mechanics of those games, that aspect is ultimately what makes System Shock, and you can't be the successor to System Shock without it.

SS2 was also better because it had XERSES, the seemingly nice guy, also trying to get you to work for him. I liked the interplay between the computers and they never talked to each other once.

 

[Janaschi]

Hello,

So my friends and fellow gamers. both games claim to be spritual successor of System shock. 10 years ago it was bioshock. 10 years later its Prey.

Bioshock was very well recieve. even more so than system shock. like 10/10s and 9/10. however game was utterly linear and more of scripted. and basically feel like dumbed down version of system shock. even worse that it was made by Ken levinne. he created bioshock infinite too which is worse... snip

both games fall flat compare to System shock 2. neither Prey nor Bioshock are even shadow of system shock. System shock 2 was a FREAKIN LEGEND!. and no its not nastolgia. I played it for the first time in 2013 and was still blown away.

As a person who literally just played SS2 last week, its very linear. Or maybe circular because its all centred around the main elevator. You feel like you are doing a large loop. If you compare it to Deus Ex, you don't get much choice about how to start a combat situation. You can't flank them, take them out one at a time or use security against the enemies. It all feels rather Bioshock-y (I haven't played Prey so I don't know.)

Personally, I don't think I will be playing this again. I can recognise it was good when I first played almost 20 yrs ago but it doesn't compare to the original Deus Ex.

(I did like large portions of story telling told through audiologs but the one sentence the protagonist does say is god awful. Also, the lovers escaping on the shuttle... I cant believe I used to like that.)

The lovers, ah... didn't escape.

 

[Trunkage]

Hello,

So my friends and fellow gamers. both games claim to be spritual successor of System shock. 10 years ago it was bioshock. 10 years later its Prey.

Bioshock was very well recieve. even more so than system shock. like 10/10s and 9/10. however game was utterly linear and more of scripted. and basically feel like dumbed down version of system shock. even worse that it was made by Ken levinne. he created bioshock infinite too which is worse... snip

both games fall flat compare to System shock 2. neither Prey nor Bioshock are even shadow of system shock. System shock 2 was a FREAKIN LEGEND!. and no its not nastolgia. I played it for the first time in 2013 and was still blown away.

As a person who literally just played SS2 last week, its very linear. Or maybe circular because its all centred around the main elevator. You feel like you are doing a large loop. If you compare it to Deus Ex, you don't get much choice about how to start a combat situation. You can't flank them, take them out one at a time or use security against the enemies. It all feels rather Bioshock-y (I haven't played Prey so I don't know.)

Personally, I don't think I will be playing this again. I can recognise it was good when I first played almost 20 yrs ago but it doesn't compare to the original Deus Ex.

(I did like large portions of story telling told through audiologs but the one sentence the protagonist does say is god awful. Also, the lovers escaping on the shuttle... I cant believe I used to like that.)

The lovers, ah... didn't escape.

That's what I was alluding to. The "big ending reveal" of the lovers storyline is terrible. Dead Space aped it somewhat and it was terrible there too. Half the horror movies I've seen does it. If there is something in horror movies that I want to go away - its those endings.

 

[Janaschi]

Hello,

So my friends and fellow gamers. both games claim to be spritual successor of System shock. 10 years ago it was bioshock. 10 years later its Prey.

Bioshock was very well recieve. even more so than system shock. like 10/10s and 9/10. however game was utterly linear and more of scripted. and basically feel like dumbed down version of system shock. even worse that it was made by Ken levinne. he created bioshock infinite too which is worse... snip

both games fall flat compare to System shock 2. neither Prey nor Bioshock are even shadow of system shock. System shock 2 was a FREAKIN LEGEND!. and no its not nastolgia. I played it for the first time in 2013 and was still blown away.

As a person who literally just played SS2 last week, its very linear. Or maybe circular because its all centred around the main elevator. You feel like you are doing a large loop. If you compare it to Deus Ex, you don't get much choice about how to start a combat situation. You can't flank them, take them out one at a time or use security against the enemies. It all feels rather Bioshock-y (I haven't played Prey so I don't know.)

Personally, I don't think I will be playing this again. I can recognise it was good when I first played almost 20 yrs ago but it doesn't compare to the original Deus Ex.

(I did like large portions of story telling told through audiologs but the one sentence the protagonist does say is god awful. Also, the lovers escaping on the shuttle... I cant believe I used to like that.)

The lovers, ah... didn't escape.

That's what I was alluding to. The "big ending reveal" of the lovers storyline is terrible. Dead Space aped it somewhat and it was terrible there too. Half the horror movies I've seen does it. If there is something in horror movies that I want to go away - its those endings.

Fair enough - System Shock II certainly had its flaws, especially in regards to its storytelling, and its ability to cater to suspension of belief.

That being said, the game isn't really a legend because it holds up; the game is a legend, because it is literally the foundation that was created for modern RPGs, and was a direct inspiration for games like Deus Ex. There are simply a lot of games that would not have existed, if not for SSII, and that's why its name is held in such reverence.

And with that being said, too, I am very interested in seeing what happens with this SSII remake that's in the works. I doubt that even that will hold up to modern games, but I am still holding faith that they will stay true to the atmosphere.

 

[Trunkage]

Hello,

So my friends and fellow gamers. both games claim to be spritual successor of System shock. 10 years ago it was bioshock. 10 years later its Prey.

Bioshock was very well recieve. even more so than system shock. like 10/10s and 9/10. however game was utterly linear and more of scripted. and basically feel like dumbed down version of system shock. even worse that it was made by Ken levinne. he created bioshock infinite too which is worse... snip

both games fall flat compare to System shock 2. neither Prey nor Bioshock are even shadow of system shock. System shock 2 was a FREAKIN LEGEND!. and no its not nastolgia. I played it for the first time in 2013 and was still blown away.

As a person who literally just played SS2 last week, its very linear. Or maybe circular because its all centred around the main elevator. You feel like you are doing a large loop. If you compare it to Deus Ex, you don't get much choice about how to start a combat situation. You can't flank them, take them out one at a time or use security against the enemies. It all feels rather Bioshock-y (I haven't played Prey so I don't know.)

Personally, I don't think I will be playing this again. I can recognise it was good when I first played almost 20 yrs ago but it doesn't compare to the original Deus Ex.

(I did like large portions of story telling told through audiologs but the one sentence the protagonist does say is god awful. Also, the lovers escaping on the shuttle... I cant believe I used to like that.)

The lovers, ah... didn't escape.

That's what I was alluding to. The "big ending reveal" of the lovers storyline is terrible. Dead Space aped it somewhat and it was terrible there too. Half the horror movies I've seen does it. If there is something in horror movies that I want to go away - its those endings.

Fair enough - System Shock II certainly had its flaws, especially in regards to its storytelling, and its ability to cater to suspension of belief.

That being said, the game isn't really a legend because it holds up; the game is a legend, because it is literally the foundation that was created for modern RPGs, and was a direct inspiration for games like Deus Ex. There are simply a lot of games that would not have existed, if not for SSII, and that's why its name is held in such reverence.

And with that being said, too, I am very interested in seeing what happens with this SSII remake that's in the works. I doubt that even that will hold up to modern games, but I am still holding faith that they will stay true to the atmosphere.

I worry about purist and the SS2 remake. The game needs to be updated but I can see way too many people saying its no longer SS2 - its happened before with other games. I don't understand why purist need to make everyone dislike something because its not an exact copy of the old. Tone and feel are more important. But then I personally would like more options about how to deal with situations, better storytelling (audiologs combined with the Bethsheda scene creation they are great at), maybe some choice about who you help - because you always know SHODAN is going to back stab you but XERSES is still a serious threat.(I also now dislike how you cant choose who to help, but thought it was good back then). So I'd probably piss off purist if I got my way.

As to inspire Deus Ex, it was only a year later than SS2. Maybe. I think the development would have been too far along. Its probably like Bug's Life and Antz. Co-inspiring each, but being distinct. But those two combined showed how that type of game could be successful. Although it did also inspire everything with RPG element (COD, Siege, etc.) So swings and roundabouts...

 

[Hawki]

I dunno, even Ryan sorta lacks existence outside of what are essentially just cutscenes. I like that you get to sorta semi-explore what is basically a broken pile of dreams, but I feel you get more connected to the audio logs than you do any living character in the game.

I guess, but the nice thing about the audio logs is that they tend to be focused around a set group of characters (Ryan, McDonnagh, Suchong, Tennenbaum, etc.). Most of these characters you get to either meet or at least find the bodies of. Finding McDonnagh's final recording on his corpse? Sobering. Finding Suchong's body and listening to his final moments? Sattisfing. Meeting Ryan after listening to him throughout the game, both in audio logs and his direct addressments to Jack, listening to how he becomes more desparate (e.g. declaring Rapture will rise again)? Very good.

Most of the characterization comes from the audio logs, but I don't think that's an inherently bad thing.

And the gameplay as you get further into is just sorta gets boring. Even on the higher difficulty, it's freeze/flame, shoot till the effect wears off, repeat. There's not a huge amount of depth, and I don't think it's aged well because I remember having difficulty differentiating enemies from background at some points(And not the Spiders, that's sorta supposed to be a part of their schtick).

Maybe...I think there's a bit more depth than you give it credit for, since the plasmids have different effects, and you have to adjust your tactics accordingly. Freezing enemies is effective, but killing them will rob you of loot. Setting them on fire does long-term damage, but has little stopping power. The shock has stopping power, but does reduced damage. You can use more powerful plasmids, but this will cost you more EVE. And so on. You can also focus on weapons or plasmids based on how you spend your cash. I don't consider BioShock an RPG, in that there's no real levelling system, but I think there's a lot of flexibility in how you approach your foes.

At the very least, for me, the game starts tough and remains tough. Though I will say that Big Daddies become one of the easiest foes in the game once you get the crossbow and its electric bolts, while it's the splicers that become the true fuckers. And Fontaine is an incredibly easy boss fight as well, so, boo.

Dark Souls is my favourite spiritual successor to Zelda.

Wait, what?

Okay, maybe the very first Legend of Zelda, but that's about it. Granted, never played Dark Souls, but the differences between the franchises far outweigh the similarities in my eyes.

Jesus, and those plaster statues scuttling about as soon as you turn around?

Well, thanks for dredging up that particular piece of nightmare fuel.

Should have got used to it after how the first Saturine splicer confronts you in the garden, but yep, those statues got me offugard the first time, and got me good.

Bioshock is mediocre shooter and already dated after 10 years.

I played BioShock for the first time this year. Didn't feel dated to me.

That's what I was alluding to. The "big ending reveal" of the lovers storyline is terrible. Dead Space aped it somewhat and it was terrible there too.

But I thought it was good...

Specifically, it wasn't so much the lovers themselves, more that Mercer was the one doing it. I already disliked the bastard prior to that point, but his killing them is just another reason to hate him.

 

[Redryhno]

I dunno, even Ryan sorta lacks existence outside of what are essentially just cutscenes. I like that you get to sorta semi-explore what is basically a broken pile of dreams, but I feel you get more connected to the audio logs than you do any living character in the game.

I guess, but the nice thing about the audio logs is that they tend to be focused around a set group of characters (Ryan, McDonnagh, Suchong, Tennenbaum, etc.). Most of these characters you get to either meet or at least find the bodies of. Finding McDonnagh's final recording on his corpse? Sobering. Finding Suchong's body and listening to his final moments? Sattisfing. Meeting Ryan after listening to him throughout the game, both in audio logs and his direct addressments to Jack, listening to how he becomes more desparate (e.g. declaring Rapture will rise again)? Very good.

Most of the characterization comes from the audio logs, but I don't think that's an inherently bad thing.

Oh, I never meant to say that the audio logs were a bad thing, I think they're very good at what they're supposed to do. I just don't think that pretty much any of the characters you meet have the same level of effort put into them when you do actually meet them.

And the gameplay as you get further into is just sorta gets boring. Even on the higher difficulty, it's freeze/flame, shoot till the effect wears off, repeat. There's not a huge amount of depth, and I don't think it's aged well because I remember having difficulty differentiating enemies from background at some points(And not the Spiders, that's sorta supposed to be a part of their schtick).

Maybe...I think there's a bit more depth than you give it credit for, since the plasmids have different effects, and you have to adjust your tactics accordingly. Freezing enemies is effective, but killing them will rob you of loot. Setting them on fire does long-term damage, but has little stopping power. The shock has stopping power, but does reduced damage. You can use more powerful plasmids, but this will cost you more EVE. And so on. You can also focus on weapons or plasmids based on how you spend your cash. I don't consider BioShock an RPG, in that there's no real levelling system, but I think there's a lot of flexibility in how you approach your foes.

At the very least, for me, the game starts tough and remains tough. Though I will say that Big Daddies become one of the easiest foes in the game once you get the crossbow and its electric bolts, while it's the splicers that become the true fuckers. And Fontaine is an incredibly easy boss fight as well, so, boo.

There's depth to Plasmids and Eve, but there's not really depth to the combat when you get down to it. Fire, once you level it a bit, is effectively an area DoT that gives you enough time to hit everyone once with the shotgun and then leave them burning for the last sliver of HP. Freeze is just a damage boost simply through them breaking apart if you do enough damage to them while they're frozen(as in, max level Freeze lets you insta-kill big daddies with anti-armor ammo on pretty much any gun). Also boss fights in FPS' are rarely well-done.

Don't get me wrong, I love making everyone into Nick Cage and all the other fun things like hacking bots and making the cameras go ballistic, but that's all they end up being, gimmicky fun things you do for shits and giggles because they either aren't versatile enough, or they don't actually do what you need them to do. The game is just so easily broken by basic powers you get very early on. And don't get me started on how busted of a system Adam and the Little Sisters are since you actually gain more by sparing than you do by actually killing them as pretty much every in-game system tells you.