My vote goes to Umbridge. Yeah Voldey is evil and stuff but every time I re-read Order of the Phoenix my hatred for Umbridge grows. She literally makes me angry.
Poll: Who do you hate more? Voldemort or Dolores Umbridge?
- Thread starter Kenbo Slice
- Start date
I see where your coming from. On paper Voldemort is more evil, but it's in such an over the top way that I never really feel any anger towards him. More like pity that he's so far gone that he's willing to kill so many innocent people on his path to immortality.Kenbo Slice said:
But Umbridge is just a really shitty person. She's much more relatable, I think everyone has come across an Umbridge at some point in their lives, some smug asshole who thinks their way is the only "proper" way, and can't handle anything that challenges their pre-conceived beliefs.
Plus she's a hypocrit, she expects everyone else to strictly follow the rules, but of course she feels like she can break them whenever it's convenient for her
The guy who killed people. Like a lot of people.
I mean, yeah, Umbridge reminds people of every shitty teacher they had that hated them, but the fact that she gets more hate than the actual villain of the series has always kind of weirded me out.
I mean, yeah, Umbridge reminds people of every shitty teacher they had that hated them, but the fact that she gets more hate than the actual villain of the series has always kind of weirded me out.
Umbridge is more despicable because she is a "good guy". She isn't this nefarious boogeyman in the shadows that's gonna get you. She is in charge, in power, and you are supposed to listen to her. Not doing what Voldemort says (assuming you live) gets you badass credit, not doing what Umbridge says gets you detention or worse.
In the context of the universe, Voldemort is far more reprehensible. But reading Order of the Phoenix, egads, Umbridge is someone I loathed. Voldemort at least has a sympathetic backstory, but what's Umbridge's excuse?
Ummm, most teachers didn't inflict actual physical torture on students where I went to school, even the worst ones. They also didn't appoint the local "we're transparent supporters of a genocidal maniac" club as the school enforcers either.Phasmal said:
Going to go with the homicidal cult leader that kills dozens if not hundreds of people, enslaves others to his will through magical domination, tortures innocent people for pleasure, ritual sacrifices, world domination, subjugation of the human race to his will...over the little ***** who had a bit of a control freak complex.
While Voldemort is evil in a vague Nazi sense, Umbridge was evil in a more direct and personal sense.
Firstly, all that stuff in the Order of the Phoenix, of course.
Secondly, when Voldemort takes over the Ministry (never knew if that was a UK or worldwide thing) and the Nazi parallels come out, he isn't around doing it, she's the one in charge. She changed sides, and become the one you see doing anything, whereas Voldemort is being evil offscreen.
Firstly, all that stuff in the Order of the Phoenix, of course.
Secondly, when Voldemort takes over the Ministry (never knew if that was a UK or worldwide thing) and the Nazi parallels come out, he isn't around doing it, she's the one in charge. She changed sides, and become the one you see doing anything, whereas Voldemort is being evil offscreen.
*shrug* I had a pretty vivid imagination, and even then, Umbridge exceeded those caricatures.Phasmal said:
Again, inflicting illegal curses, LITERAL torture, appointing the most blatantly evil students as enforcers with near carte blanche over their peers is a bit past "bit of a control freak". Considering it seemed like half the wizarding world was working with Voldemort all the way up to the highest echelons of power, I was a bit shocked she wasn't a death eater herself.Happyninja42 said:
In Voldemort's defense, at least he knows he's fucking evil.
Umbridge brought younger, book reading Redlin much rage during the chapters that focused on her.
Umbridge brought younger, book reading Redlin much rage during the chapters that focused on her.
Will he get around to that before or after the S.A.S. and the Royal Marines or an MI-5 hit squad have kicked his teeth in? Voldemort wants to rule the Wizarding World, but the second he sets foot outside that small enclave then he's fucked more ways to Sunday than even the most open-minded prostitute would allow. Hell he should be fucked without doing that since the murder of British citizens on British soil is something Her Majesty's police and security forces take a very dim view.Happyninja42 said:
As to the question at hand, Voldemort is an easy target to hate: he's fucking Wizard Hitler, the lowest hanging fruit one can aim for. Umbridge however is a more immediate character and her torture (make no mistake, it is torture) of the students alone would be enough to condemn her but from memory she's helping run the Ministry of Magic, willingly, after the Death Eater's seized control. Voldemort can kill folks real good and he makes for an imposing figurehead but the fact is he and most of his compatriots couldn't run a bath but Umbridge would happily get cracking on the logistics of whatever Final Solution knock off these wankers planned out.
In other words, I hate Umbridge because she's more real: she has and still exists today. Voldemort is more at home next to guys like the Red Skull.
Eh, he has the advantage of mind controlling anyone sent after him, possibly while being invisible. Yeah, no way that they could keep themselves secret, but it's a given that they somehow do.Gordon_4 said:
Now, when the French Ministry for Magic (assuming they have one) tells the French government that the UK has been overrun by Nazi stand ins...
Don't misunderstand me, he's not a villain I'd like to take on in a formal duel for those exact reasons but he has a wand and some incantations, not a Green Lantern ring. Besides it always struck me as odd that the notoriously nosy British security services didn't have a few wizards on their payroll: I mean can you imagine how hard it would be to turn a guy like Argus Filch, who spends his time basically being treated as a second class citizen because he can't do magic into spying on these people he already hates and be paid for it?Thaluikhain said:
Alternatively, wizards could want to join public service same as everyone else. Maybe they take an interest in the issues of the world...was it a coincidence that Grindelwald was defeated in 1945?Gordon_4 said:
But, eh, it's a given in certain Urban Fantasy stories that that sort of thing just doesn't happen, for no adequately explained reason.
The difference between Voldy and Umbridge is exposure. Most of the time you don't actually see Voldemort, because he's operating from the shadows. Everything Umbridge does is front and center and in your face. It's a thousand times more frustrating to read about Umbridge, because Voldemort is in hiding and you know people can't do anything about that, but Umbridge just struts around Hogwarts doing whatever the fuck she wants and people have to just roll with it. Very few people think that Umbridge is worse. But people don't always hate someone by the exact measure of their deeds. We're a little too emotional for that.Phasmal said:
The Ministry for Magic is said to be strictly UK, other countries apparently have different governing bodies for the Wizarding community.Thaluikhain said:
Consider some facts. Witches and Wizards in Harry Potter's universe can make people drop dead, with no apparent cause of death. They can also control people's minds. There is a long history of witches and wizards being caught intentionally by angry villagers, because they thought it was funny that the villagers thought the magic folk could be burnt at the stake. They'd literally play along and pretend to die as a result of this, one character mentioned liked the idea so much he was "burned at the stake" dozens of times. Finally these people can erase the memories of other people, including their own kind, in fact it's so easy a talentless loser like Gilderoy Lockhart made a career of it. That is by finding talented witches and wizards who had amazing adventures, erasing those people's memories, and taking credit for their work. Peter Pettigrew leveled a city block to frame Sirius Black for his crimes and as a means of escaping punishment for his wrong doing. Muggle law enforcement and military, even special forces would be essentially powerless to stop a single witch or wizard in most cases, let alone a movement seeking world domination.Gordon_4 said:
OT: I hate Delores Umbridge more than Voldemort. Why? While Voldemort was a mass murdering leader of a dark and bigoted movement that wanted to take over the world and enslave all muggles... He was at least honest about it. He had plenty of people around him who were too cowardly, or stupid, to topple him, but cruel enough to kill for the fun of it, which left them to dirty work. Voldemort was also a deeply disturbed and twisted individual, but at the same time he was truly ambitious and had the conviction that he was going to make the world better. He was seriously misguided in that idea, bit he was at least earnest and honest about it.
Delores Umbridge on the other hand tortured children, for no other reason than to sate her own cruel vindictive streak. She was a power hungry monster who used even the smallest amount of power for the most twisted of ends. She instituted a Nazi-like system where students kissed up to her by turning in their fellows, for crimes the deputies probably committed themselves. Which allowed cowardly worthless sniveling shit stains like Draco Malfoy to flourish. While at the same time crushing good and honest students like Nevile Longbottom under her heel.
By any metric Umbridge was the Heinrich Himmler-like Nazi, while Voldemort was much more like Stalin. Umbridge was cruel and vindictive for the sake of it, feeding her own twisted ego. Voldemort was just a paranoid despot who sincerely believed he was doing what was best for the world. So for easiest to hate and most evil, the crown goes to Delores Umbridge hands down, because she knew what she was doing was awful, but she still did it to get her twisted jollies.