Poll: Who here actually wants RPGs to get easier?

[Susurrus]

SNIP

I'm not really sure Diablo counts as an RPG. It's more a hack and slash. Compare it to, say, any DnD-based game, and it lacks any complexity at all.

I think there is a problem in that the genres of hack n slash and RPG are increasingly getting molded together, when really they are two completely separate things.

Consider how different DnD games are, and then consider Diablo. Even Dragon Age was merging the two, with abilities on a timer. Putting things on a timer means you have the tactical consideration, once, of choosing when to use them. Making you pre-select certain abilities before an encounter, and then further restricting you from using them again, means that you have to make tactical choices throughout each encounter.

 

[Bruenin]

Dumbing down is NEVER good.

Ideally, all games should be easy to learn, but hard to master.

Even better, give players a difficulty setting to mess around with.

Depth is better. You start the game by being introduced to a simple world, but you're constantly given new mechanics to take advantage of, until little by little the world isn't so simple anymore and the only way to progress is by cleverly manipulating the mechanics you've learned. But the key here is that the game has to teach you how to manipulate them, it has to set you on the right track first before leaving you out to dry.

This. This is the best.

My friends and I are making an RPG, and this is what we will be striving for. We will be slowly increasing the amount of tactics the player has at their disposal, and making sure that they understand the implications that this has.

Making an RPG? SPELLS SPELLS EVERYWHERE! no game I know of has enough spells in it :/, skyrim barely has any... you basically just upgrade those main 3 (fire, lightning, ice). Variety in magic for once would be nice.

 

[Ryotknife]

That is why I like FF13 battle system over any other RPG. Yea, it holds your hand for the first.....10-20 hours, but once you are actually allowed to use everything? It is the most strategic, frantic, and thought provocative system there is.

other than that for rpgs, the "hard" battle systems seems to stem from bad luck rather than poor skill like the fire emblem series. LOL 7 guys are attacking me with a 5% chance to hit and a 1% chance to crit... 4 crits later my character is dead.

 

[Mike Laserbeam]

RPGs have never been "too difficult". So, why would I want them dumbed down...?

 

[Feena-cf]

Didn't think I'd ever be on the "easier is bad" side of this but after booting up KOTOR I and ME3 in the same week I've gotta say, I miss the old days.

 

[Mariakko]

I can't help but think of Morrowind and Fable for this.
Remember how in Fable your armor had stats and stuff then in Fable 3 it was all cosmetic design? That irritated me.
Remember how in Morrowind Deadric armor was a challenge to get because there were only like 1.5 complete sets of it in the game, whilst in Oblivion you can get full sets of it by leveling up quickly.
I'm not saying "throw a ton of stats and buffs at me", but I feel like RPGs need more depth.

 

[BakedAlaskan]

I have never played an RPG that I couldn't complete. Every extra hour was spent working towards achieving the most from the game. If I didnt like it (Oblivion) then down it went.

I'm 100+ hours into Skyrim though and wouldn't change it. If you want to ramp it up to Master then you can. I was surprised to see FFXIII-2 with an Easy option though. I mean who completes the game and then wants to play an easier game with an easy option attached?

One game that does jump out at me, for those who are looking for non-stat based factors which influence combat is The Last Remnant (Sqeeenix) on Xbox 360. The juggling system of the team morale throughout each battle will sway the game and adds more depth than grinding alone as when you do level up, more challenging enemies always appear. Hardest comsole game I've played.

Overall, no. RPGs are supposed to challenge the mind and bring hours of enjoyment. There's always Chocobo Dungeon?

 

[Twilight_guy]

I prefer games that follow good game design. Good game design dictates trying to tailor your game to the average player and adding difficulty modes. It also dedicates that you explain the rules to players (in very small words). I dislike people who say a game is better because it follows bad game design principles, such as not explaining rules or hiding information from the player. I do not think games have been getting easier over time. I do think that they have been getting better designed over time and I do think that 'hard core' players have no idea how the fuck a good game is designed despite playing them for an extended period. In short, I do not a agree with you good sir or madam but I do think games should not be too easy.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Making an RPG? SPELLS SPELLS EVERYWHERE! no game I know of has enough spells in it :/, skyrim barely has any... you basically just upgrade those main 3 (fire, lightning, ice). Variety in magic for once would be nice.

It's a turn based JRPG.

...But yes, we DO have variety in spells planned.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Good game design dictates trying to tailor your game to the average player and adding difficulty modes.

Do you mean the average player for that game, or the average player in general? So, if I'm making a hypothetical Angband variant, do you think it would be good design on my part to design the game for people who have played Angband, people who play roguelikes, or the average gamer in general?

bad game design principles, such as not explaining rules or hiding information from the player.

This I agree with (mostly). One thing I like about RPGs is that they generally give you all the rules and stats up front. So you don't have to go digging around on the internet to find out what your weapons do, and you can generally get a pretty accurate picture of what abilities and items work with which build.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

Why does it have to be either or? Studios just need to learn how to use difficulty settings better so that they can cater to everyone.

 

[miketehmage]

I guess this will be the thread where I will finally point out the difference between a challenge, and tedious difficulty.

When I say I want a game to challenge me, I mean I want the game to make me think hard about the tools available to me, and then use them to overcome obstacles in the plot. What I don't want is a game forcing me to grind in order to advance. Because that isn't fun, which is what games are for.

For those of you who claim to enjoy grinding, I'd be so bold as to say that you don't. You infact enjoy the reward you get at the end, you enjoy working towards that reward. You don't enjoy repeating the same dull action over and over. That's why it's called grind.

So I voted yes. However if you were to ask me about mmorpgs, I'd say ramp up the difficulty. Wow has become so easy that recently I went into a raid undergeared, paid very little attention, and healed through the first boss without even realising it was a boss. Blizz need to sort that shit out.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

No, the reason why I enjoyed Final Fantasy X is because it was challenging and each boss fight was unique. The difficulty didn't stem from an overwhelmingly powerful boss that could kill you in one hit and had a ridiculously large amount of HP. It was bosses using increasingly creative and difficult battle tactics to best you if you were unprepared or going for an all-out attack formation.

 

[loc978]

As a long-time fan of tabletop D20 games... no, I really do not like the dumbing down, streamlining, or simplification of RPGs (if streamlining really could help a given game, I say scrap it and start over, the base product is just bad). They're supposed to be lopsided affairs that require cleverness and survival-oriented tactics just to have a chance of surviving your first battle. They're also supposed to wow you with the illusion of developer omniscience [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything]. CRPGs have spoiled us all unintentionally through early technological limitations.

Spoiler: this is how RPGs are supposed to be, dammit

Spoiler: Of course, I might be a little biased

 

[ArchAngelKira]

I might want some RPGs to be liniar, I know it sounds stupid but hear me out. Sometimes when given an openworlded field and the ability to do anything you want, this might overwhelm some gamers and stop playing for having too much to do in the game at once. If you could walk to each event of a story or character quest without wasting time running around looking for them, maybe a game option in the menu can have a trait as this.

(If I could get some feedback on this, I'd like it very much)