Poll: Why all the zerg hate?

[Danceofmasks]

I am kind of laughing at the "only noobs lose to ling rush", I think it was whitera (considered to be one of the best toss players in the world) lost to this very tactic in a best of one (what a stupid name).

If all your wins are coming from this tactic, you are going to get slaughtered in the next league. All you have done is win withing the first 5 mins of a game, your mid to late game is untested, there mid to late game is well tested.

You might get the odd win with the rush but I am willing to bet you stop doing it when you move up.

No no ... that's not how starcraft works ...
If you don't get attacked early, you can get away with building less troops. With that money, you build a better economy.
Therefore, a lot of players sacrifice early game for mid/late game.

It's the best thing in the world to rush players like IdrA, 'cos he almost always aims for a long game, and therefore his early game isn't as strong as it could be.

Now, of course rushing him constantly isn't going to work, 'cos just like everything else, if you know what strategy your opponent is using, that's half the work of winning.

What are you talking about? I may not play the game at the moment but I study it a bit, so I know how it works.

I was just commenting on "stop doing it when you move up" ...
I was just trying to point out why you must never stop cheesing.

Sure, doing it constantly is stupid, but 20% of your games is perfectly fine.

No, it's not 'cos doing a rush leaves you weak if it fails and since alot people know how to beat it it's just going to leave you weak in 20% of your games.

I would say pull it as a novelty or to change something up if you get bored of your play style.

Cheese is just the lowest brow tactic and if beaten leaves you easily defeated which is just a bad mind set to go into a game with, I think. You must be thinking, I will attack now but whats the next step? You are not arguing with me now, your arguing with day[9] who I am sure knows a fuck tonne more about SC2 than both of us combined.

Of course if cheese fails you lose.
But if you never cheese, you're more likely to lose at macro, 'cos your opponent just cuts corners early game.

I'm telling you now, if you think day[9] would agree with you, you fail at understanding what he says.

 

[omega 616]

I am kind of laughing at the "only noobs lose to ling rush", I think it was whitera (considered to be one of the best toss players in the world) lost to this very tactic in a best of one (what a stupid name).

If all your wins are coming from this tactic, you are going to get slaughtered in the next league. All you have done is win withing the first 5 mins of a game, your mid to late game is untested, there mid to late game is well tested.

You might get the odd win with the rush but I am willing to bet you stop doing it when you move up.

No no ... that's not how starcraft works ...
If you don't get attacked early, you can get away with building less troops. With that money, you build a better economy.
Therefore, a lot of players sacrifice early game for mid/late game.

It's the best thing in the world to rush players like IdrA, 'cos he almost always aims for a long game, and therefore his early game isn't as strong as it could be.

Now, of course rushing him constantly isn't going to work, 'cos just like everything else, if you know what strategy your opponent is using, that's half the work of winning.

What are you talking about? I may not play the game at the moment but I study it a bit, so I know how it works.

I was just commenting on "stop doing it when you move up" ...
I was just trying to point out why you must never stop cheesing.

Sure, doing it constantly is stupid, but 20% of your games is perfectly fine.

No, it's not 'cos doing a rush leaves you weak if it fails and since alot people know how to beat it it's just going to leave you weak in 20% of your games.

I would say pull it as a novelty or to change something up if you get bored of your play style.

Cheese is just the lowest brow tactic and if beaten leaves you easily defeated which is just a bad mind set to go into a game with, I think. You must be thinking, I will attack now but whats the next step? You are not arguing with me now, your arguing with day[9] who I am sure knows a fuck tonne more about SC2 than both of us combined.

Of course if cheese fails you lose.
But if you never cheese, you're more likely to lose at macro, 'cos your opponent just cuts corners early game.

I'm telling you now, if you think day[9] would agree with you, you fail at understanding what he says.

You don't anything about SC2 do you? If he is cutting corners he is at the disadvantage, not you.

If you never cheese you lose at micro? What are you on about? that is the opposite of what happens!

Day[9] has said on hundreds of occasions it's not about what your doing now, it's about the next thing. It's not about what you can do in this game, it's about what you can do in the next one. It's why you should be macroing while mircoing, so when all of your units die you don't insta lose to the counter punch or if you win you can reinforce your battered army with new units.

If you don't macro while morcing you lose your units and die to the counter or his feshly made units rip apart your battered units while yours are still being built.

Just 'cos you say I am wrong doesn't make it so.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

And this is why I ALWAYS wall off.

With terran I put up my supply depot wall. With Protoss, I leave one space for a zealot to stand in and block the zerglings from getting in. Now, I only worry when I'm playing 2 on 2 and then BOTH players 6-pool. Then things get hairy.

But really, zergling rushes aren't that bad to deal with. Plus, since you're mixing in banelings, that's VERY good. It's his fault for not having seige tanks to stop them (or sentries and collossi/templars if he's protoss).

 

[Eggsnham]

Generally, a lot of the people who play StarCraft online are hateful people. StarCraft players rage like there is no tomorrow. I've seen kids playing Counterstrike who seem like cuddly, benign puppies compared to how blisteringly hateful the average StarCraft player is (and those Counterstrike children are all insane).

Can anyone explain this phenomena?

When you spend all your gaming time playing a game that Koreans have made into an art form, something bad is bound to happen to your mental state.

 

[ShadowKatt]

I've been zerg rushed before. That little 6 pool you guys keep calling it is pretty much the bane of my existance, BUT I can usually survive it unless I'm just not paying attention. 6 zerglings are manageable.

HOWEVER, 6 zealots are not. I specialise in protoss, I'm nearly unbeatable with protoss, but how you can have up 6 zealots faster than I can get a gateway or forge up is so fucking unbelievable that I suspect the computer is actually cheating. it doesn't seem physically possible.

 

[newfoundsky]

I don't even have ONE pool, people are everywhere with 6 pools, 10 pools, and fish hatcheries. Perhaps this is why I avoid SC2 multiplayer.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I am kind of laughing at the "only noobs lose to ling rush", I think it was whitera (considered to be one of the best toss players in the world) lost to this very tactic in a best of one (what a stupid name).

If all your wins are coming from this tactic, you are going to get slaughtered in the next league. All you have done is win withing the first 5 mins of a game, your mid to late game is untested, there mid to late game is well tested.

You might get the odd win with the rush but I am willing to bet you stop doing it when you move up.

No no ... that's not how starcraft works ...
If you don't get attacked early, you can get away with building less troops. With that money, you build a better economy.
Therefore, a lot of players sacrifice early game for mid/late game.

It's the best thing in the world to rush players like IdrA, 'cos he almost always aims for a long game, and therefore his early game isn't as strong as it could be.

Now, of course rushing him constantly isn't going to work, 'cos just like everything else, if you know what strategy your opponent is using, that's half the work of winning.

What are you talking about? I may not play the game at the moment but I study it a bit, so I know how it works.

I was just commenting on "stop doing it when you move up" ...
I was just trying to point out why you must never stop cheesing.

Sure, doing it constantly is stupid, but 20% of your games is perfectly fine.

No, it's not 'cos doing a rush leaves you weak if it fails and since alot people know how to beat it it's just going to leave you weak in 20% of your games.

I would say pull it as a novelty or to change something up if you get bored of your play style.

Cheese is just the lowest brow tactic and if beaten leaves you easily defeated which is just a bad mind set to go into a game with, I think. You must be thinking, I will attack now but whats the next step? You are not arguing with me now, your arguing with day[9] who I am sure knows a fuck tonne more about SC2 than both of us combined.

Of course if cheese fails you lose.
But if you never cheese, you're more likely to lose at macro, 'cos your opponent just cuts corners early game.

I'm telling you now, if you think day[9] would agree with you, you fail at understanding what he says.

You don't anything about SC2 do you? If he is cutting corners he is at the disadvantage, not you.

If you never cheese you lose at micro? What are you on about? that is the opposite of what happens!

Day[9] has said on hundreds of occasions it's not about what your doing now, it's about the next thing. It's not about what you can do in this game, it's about what you can do in the next one. It's why you should be macroing while mircoing, so when all of your units die you don't insta lose to the counter punch or if you win you can reinforce your battered army with new units.

If you don't macro while morcing you lose your units and die to the counter or his feshly made units rip apart your battered units while yours are still being built.

Just 'cos you say I am wrong doesn't make it so.

What the fuck ... dude ... for some reason you think starcraft is a game you play in 1 game chunks.
Your games are never isolated.

The very fact that you don't understand what I mean when I say "cutting corners" means you're totally clueless.

If you never cheese, your opponent doesn't need an army early game.

Ok, it seems you're going to need a real life example here ... awhile back, the meta of the game was:
Zergs had to go pool first 'cos they'll die to reapers.
Blizzard nerfed reapers.
Zergs went hatch first 'cos they no longer need an early army, right?
The terrans did 2 barracks all-in rushes that included all their SCVs.
Everybody called that "cheese," but it's the right response when your opponent decides they don't need an army early.

 

[AmbushIntheDark]

While 6 pool is stupid annoying to learn to hold when you just start playing, but its still part of the game and when you DO hold it of, you are so far ahead its hard to lose, so its alright.

Also, MY LIFE FOR AIUR

 

[NuclearPenguin]

Amazingly easy to counter.

 

[omega 616]

I am kind of laughing at the "only noobs lose to ling rush", I think it was whitera (considered to be one of the best toss players in the world) lost to this very tactic in a best of one (what a stupid name).

If all your wins are coming from this tactic, you are going to get slaughtered in the next league. All you have done is win withing the first 5 mins of a game, your mid to late game is untested, there mid to late game is well tested.

You might get the odd win with the rush but I am willing to bet you stop doing it when you move up.

No no ... that's not how starcraft works ...
If you don't get attacked early, you can get away with building less troops. With that money, you build a better economy.
Therefore, a lot of players sacrifice early game for mid/late game.

It's the best thing in the world to rush players like IdrA, 'cos he almost always aims for a long game, and therefore his early game isn't as strong as it could be.

Now, of course rushing him constantly isn't going to work, 'cos just like everything else, if you know what strategy your opponent is using, that's half the work of winning.

What are you talking about? I may not play the game at the moment but I study it a bit, so I know how it works.

I was just commenting on "stop doing it when you move up" ...
I was just trying to point out why you must never stop cheesing.

Sure, doing it constantly is stupid, but 20% of your games is perfectly fine.

No, it's not 'cos doing a rush leaves you weak if it fails and since alot people know how to beat it it's just going to leave you weak in 20% of your games.

I would say pull it as a novelty or to change something up if you get bored of your play style.

Cheese is just the lowest brow tactic and if beaten leaves you easily defeated which is just a bad mind set to go into a game with, I think. You must be thinking, I will attack now but whats the next step? You are not arguing with me now, your arguing with day[9] who I am sure knows a fuck tonne more about SC2 than both of us combined.

Of course if cheese fails you lose.
But if you never cheese, you're more likely to lose at macro, 'cos your opponent just cuts corners early game.

I'm telling you now, if you think day[9] would agree with you, you fail at understanding what he says.

You don't anything about SC2 do you? If he is cutting corners he is at the disadvantage, not you.

If you never cheese you lose at micro? What are you on about? that is the opposite of what happens!

Day[9] has said on hundreds of occasions it's not about what your doing now, it's about the next thing. It's not about what you can do in this game, it's about what you can do in the next one. It's why you should be macroing while mircoing, so when all of your units die you don't insta lose to the counter punch or if you win you can reinforce your battered army with new units.

If you don't macro while morcing you lose your units and die to the counter or his feshly made units rip apart your battered units while yours are still being built.

Just 'cos you say I am wrong doesn't make it so.

What the fuck ... dude ... for some reason you think starcraft is a game you play in 1 game chunks.
Your games are never isolated.

The very fact that you don't understand what I mean when I say "cutting corners" means you're totally clueless.

If you never cheese, your opponent doesn't need an army early game.

Ok, it seems you're going to need a real life example here ... awhile back, the meta of the game was:
Zergs had to go pool first 'cos they'll die to reapers.
Blizzard nerfed reapers.
Zergs went hatch first 'cos they no longer need an early army, right?
The terrans did 2 barracks all-in rushes that included all their SCVs.
Everybody called that "cheese," but it's the right response when your opponent decides they don't need an army early.

No idea what your going on about in your first paragraph, then again I am not sure what your going on about in the rest of it ....

Don't think I ever said you don't need an early game army, of course you do, otherwise you lose. Just 'cos you have an army doesn't mean you have to launch it at his base.

I did say that you should stop spreading the cheese 'cos it leaves weak when the guy counters it, which is true.

Another day[9] quote, if you lose with zerg and you had no army but a bunch of drones, you lost correctly. Again not arguing with me, your arguing with an ex pro player.

 

[Elvoret]

I don't play yet, but when I do it'll be Zerg because they're adorable.

 

[GrindAD]

Silver and climbing! I can say that watching Day [9] has helped me beyond belief.
http://day9tv.blip.tv/
Watch the daily # 252 and it will help TREMENDOUSLY.
If you want to do some just for fun 1v1 practice types private message me and I'll give you my gamertag and #.

 

[GrindAD]

]I can't tell if you mean the toss doesn't have a next move after cannoning, or that the zerg doesn't have a chance after seeing cannons, but you are wrong either way. Cannons are big part of many protosses' opening arsenal. Most typically they get laid down behind minerals at zerg natural, or below the ramp, while the hatchery is morphing and zerg has no vision of the surroundings (zerg's fault for not scouting there). The typical toss follow-up is fast expansion and laying down some cannons for defense for when the zerg breaks the offensive cannons. Depending on the situation, Zerg can mass up and kill the cannons, nydus the toss base, or expand elsewhere (including in-base offensive hatch). I have won such a game with one-base muta, but it's probably weak as I haven't seen pros ever go for it.[/quote]

To be more exact, if the toss is in close positions and reaches my base before scouting the others, not laying one or two cannons behind the mineral line or a simple 2-3 cannon contain at the bottom of the ramp, I mean putting one pylon in a corner and surrounding it with 2-3 cannons... then another pylon and 3 cannons... till they're hitting my hatch. I've tried blings, lings, roaches and queens, in all combos. Unbreakable, even when I see the first pylon go down and pull 4 drones to kill it asap. Then I get called a "n00b" and desire to put my fist through the keyboard... Just me?

 

[DasDestroyer]

They're just noobs and don't understand the concept of the game. I'm a noob too, but at least I understand how the game works, and that it is a relatively common strategy, and can deal with a 6 pool.