Poll: Why did people hate the ending of "Neon Genesis Evangelion"?

RollForInitiative

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Salad Is Murder said:
Because the show is really bad, with a stolen plot poorly done and populated by thoroughly unlikeable characters.

The end was just the point when most people realized it.
I couldn't agree more. It was almost reasonable until around the half-way marker, where it really began to fall apart in earnest.

As for unlikable characters, well, Shinji is basically my marker for everything I loathe in a protagonist. I can't even begin to relate to a character that pathetic, whiny, and weak.
 

Sticky Squid

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I enjoyed it purely because instead of bringing out some even bigger threat that we'd never heard of throughout the series we instead focused on Shinji and how he's screwed up.
I don't like rebuild for its new characters.
 

Zay-el

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I've seen NGE and the movies as well and though I'd really like to say I liked them, that isn't quite fully true. I liked the initial idea, but the execution, to me, varied from decent to bafflingly stupid. I don't care they ran out of money, implementing mindscrew just for the sake of appearing deep is NOT my way of entertainment. The ending was just trying its best to be artsy, but instead of hoping to make sense, it just jumbled everything up. End of Evangelion was a tad bit better, though it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

To me, the fitting ending of Evangelion came in the form of a 3rd-party series called "RE-TAKE". It keeps within the tone of the show and wrappes it up in a beautifully well-executed fashion.
 

Zeekar

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I'm too biased to answer this question fairly. To long time fans of the show, I can understand the distaste for how the show ended. I am not one of those people. I never watched a single episode so the OVAs had to stand on their own for me.

As far as I'm concerned, the end was poignant and fitting. I also enjoyed the visceral imagery -- mindf**k as it was, it was done with the kind of balance that I only find Gainax is capable of repeating. You can really have fun with the chaos that they create. Even when it's disturbing as heck.

I'm no huge fan of this particular work, but "hate" is far from how I feel about it.
 

loremazd

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I couldn't stand Evangelion primarily because they booted all the likeable characters and ended it with the most unlikable one.
 

The Wonder of the net

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Mar 12, 2011
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problem was there was alot of information that takes high thinking. the more you think about it the harder it is to understand but it is still awesome. if you don't think its hard for you to understand it so you hate it. i loved it it was like a full expression of what you as a human live as. you think of yourself as something and everyone around you think of you as something else. this also was a key part in understanding the writer of the series. it was a awesome thought was the writer went insane after writing it after he couldn't sell it. it was too new for most people. thank god someone bought it.
 

Kevonovitch

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Loop Stricken said:
tthor said:
I think i've also heard of possible reboots of the show simply to give it a better conclusion
Rebuild of Evangelion, I'd assume. They've put out two films already. They are awesome.
yup, 3rd comes out 2012, 4th comes out 2014, and it's a re-imagining of NGE by it's own creator, so far, more awsome, and more mindfuckery than the anime and the movies ^_^
 

SenorNemo

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RollForInitiative said:
Salad Is Murder said:
Because the show is really bad, with a stolen plot poorly done and populated by thoroughly unlikeable characters.

The end was just the point when most people realized it.
I couldn't agree more. It was almost reasonable until around the half-way marker, where it really began to fall apart in earnest.

As for unlikable characters, well, Shinji is basically my marker for everything I loathe in a protagonist. I can't even begin to relate to a character that pathetic, whiny, and weak.
I'm not going to try to convince you to like Shinji - that would be pointless - but consider the following:

Shinji thinks himself weak and pathetic, and nobody hardly ever tries to convince him otherwise. Yet, this is the same Shinji who...
...defeated Sachiel with no training whatsoever. He'd never heard of a giant robot, and he'd certainly never seen a giant fracking trippy daikaiju before.
...actually did what the typical anime action hero is supposed to do and aggressively attacked Shamshel and defeated it...with two other people in the plug, interfering with his synch rate. Again, with maybe a week's worth of training.
...would have handily defeated Zereul - who had previously defeated both Asuka and Rei without breaking a sweat - if his battery power hadn't run out.
...defeated Unit 02 - a superior unit - being controlled by an angel...who can set his own synch rate.
...contributes very greatly to battles fought alongside the other units.

Considering Shinji was summoned by a father he barely knows, told "hey, you, we're just going to place the fate of humanity on your shoulders by making you pilot a giant robot you've never heard of before, so don't screw up," and then dropped right into the middle of a year long fight for his life, I think that's pretty good. NGE is (at a superficial level) a deconstruction of the whole "shounen hero pilots the robot and saves humanity," so accusing NGE of not playing the anime-shounen-action-hero tropes straight doesn't make much sense.

For that matter, Shinji has a couple of reasons to be a bit down in the dumps, given...
...as previously mentioned, he gets a summons from his estranged father, who promptly tells him, basically, "I don't care about you, but now you can do something for me, so go pilot that big purple thing you've never seen before."
...afterwards, exactly one person shows any gratitude whatsoever for what he did or recognizes what he might be going through.
...and, incidentally, Shinji figures out that the robot he was piloting...yeah, not quite a robot.
...subsequently, he's put through a very traumatic experience with the Shamshel incident.
...when Shinji finally snaps as a result, this isn't recognized as a hint that maybe Shinji has some psychological issues that might, plausibly, interfere with the whole defending humanity thing.
...Shinji does in fact seem to improve, and continues to do the right thing and pilot the Eva unit, despite Shinji, Misato, Asuka, and Rei all totally failing to communicate with each other, and the enormous stress put on them all - but especially Shinji - by the operations against the angels.
...Shinji falls into an angel and is then forced to think about questions he'd really rather not. And incidentally discovers that the abomination-disguised-as-a-robot he's piloting...yep, has his mother's soul in it.
...Shinji is asked to destroy an angel possessing an Eva and refuses. Okay, that really is kind of a douche-bag move. However, he then has a near death experience (as usual), has control of the Eva forcibly wrested away from him, and, while still fully synched and so feeling everything the Eva feels like he was doing it, nearly kills his best friend. Very, very violently. And I cannot reiterate this enough: he feels as if he's doing it with his own hands. And there's nothing he can do. Nothing.
...When Shinji feels a bit pissed at Gendo for this, Gendo subsequently tells him basically "stop whining," and knocks him unconscious.
...Shinji, surprisingly enough, snaps again, but eventually does the right thing and comes back...only to watch Asuka nearly die horribly and Rei try to sacrifice herself. But he does return to pilot Unit 01. And what happens? Unit 01 goes berserk, and Shinji is forced yet again to confront everything he'd rather not.
...Shinji watches Rei try to sacrifice herself again...and succeed. He then finds out Rei is a clone. This totally isn't a shocking revelation at all.
...Shinji finally meets someone who genuinely cares about him and isn't too tied up with his own issues to express it. This is just what Shinji needs right now. Oops, no wait, he's an angel. But Kaworu is of course very nice about it...right up until Shinji has to crush him with his own hands in order to save the human race.

Suffice it to say Shinji has a few reasons to be a bit down during the series.
 

RollForInitiative

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And none of that makes Shinji any less of a whining pussy or any more tolerable as a human being. Sorry buddy, can't care even the slightest for a character that acts as little more than a doormat for everyone around him.
 

A Shadows Age

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Yes. Made of of so much awesome normal peoples minds found it confusing. I found it like like a cat finds catnip, made me epileptic and I loved it.
 

A Shadows Age

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Yes. Made of of so much awesome normal peoples minds found it confusing. I found it like like a cat finds catnip, made me epileptic and I loved it.
 

SenorNemo

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RollForInitiative said:
And none of that makes Shinji any less of a whining pussy or any more tolerable as a human being. Sorry buddy, can't care even the slightest for a character that acts as little more than a doormat for everyone around him.
Meh, like I said, I'm not trying to convince you into identifying with or even liking Shinji, but as I also said, I think Shinji's reputation as a "whining pussy" is way undeserved, and is owed more to the expectations of what characters in the genre are "supposed to be like" than anything else.

Actually, I don't want to presume I know why Shinji has this reputation. I don't want to put words in your mouth, after all, so I'm kind of curious: what makes Shinji a whining pussy to you? I and others have already talked a crapload about why we think the ending - and by extension the characters - work, but I really haven't heard a detailed explanation for the other side.
 

olicon

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BreakfastMan said:
My opinion of the ending? It was terrible. Why? Because it did not resolve any of the plot threads of the series. Even LOST and Twin Peaks (both of which are also great, confusing shows with endings typically regarded as less than spectacular) at least brought the main plot threads to a somewhat satisfying end. NGE just felt like it stopped. Nothing got resolved at all. To add insult to injury, they chose to focus the last two episodes on the worst character of the series. The combination of those two elements (along with smaller complaints like the crappy animation and the near absence of the EVAs/Angels) made me hate it.
Don't know about the new one, but the original did.
The series actually concluded in the movie, not the anime series itself. It's kind of a dick move, but that's how it turned out.
Shinji did find some kind of salvation after some self-re-evaluation after Kaoru's death in the series. In the movie, he found the resolved to live on (which is why the world wasn't destroyed).

The problem with NGE is that most people wanted it to be what it's not. It's a too-drawn-out exposition on teen angst and personal identity, about self-discovery and disillusionment with the motives of the world. It actually has an overly optimistic theme compared to its dark appearance--every single character in the series actually worked toward world peace (yes, even the bad guys--both Sele' AND angels), and 99% of the character found their ultimate bliss (their deepest desire is fulfilled, allowing them to break down into the goo) and even got to choose whether they want to come back as humans or not.

The presentation itself though..holy crap, that was drawn out. No, I did not sit through the entire thing. It's just too long, and in my opinion, too boring.
 

Weskerbot3000

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ITT shitheads who did not do research on the director
The director of NGE suffered a severe mental nervous break down half way through production and went into a spiraling depression. This was a way for him to work out his inner demons and express his digust with the otaku subculure of japan. In short, ep. 25 and 26 were his way of saying "go outside and get a life you loser" to them.
 

BonsaiK

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Austin Howe said:
No really, why? The main "action conflict" of the show, protecting earth from the angels, had been resolved in Episode 24. Episodes 25 and 26 are best described as the "falling action". It tries to resolve the conflicts with the characters, and because most if not all of them are intra-personal(1), it resorted to an existential smackdown where the characters are forced against A) The harshness of reality, and B) How easilly hat reality is changed. It was not at all meaningless. If the show had simply resolved at 24 with a few minutes of closing that wasn't like what actually happened, it had been well established throughout the seris that we would've been left with a host of characters whose lives are no longer wrth living because all of their self-worth and purpose comes from piloting the EVAs. It had to find a way to resolve without being a tragedy, and it worked.

Please do discus. That ending was really not worth the death threats.

(1) Due to the death of Toji, there were no longer narrative threads regarding the sexual relationships between the characters.
I hate the ending because it's rubbish. They just ran out of money and tacked on a bunch of nonsense and effects, shooting for some kind of 2001-style existentialism but it's pretty obvious that none of it actually means anything and it's just a bunch of "let's play around with cutting and try and look deep and meaningful to try and hide the fact we don't actually have the time or money to do this properly, hopefully we can hoodwink the fans enough to think that all this crap actually means something more than what it really is". In other words, the makers of NVE think their audience is stupid, and the ending is an insult to those people - they are basically saying "hey guys, you're pretty dumb, so you'll swallow this dumb ending we rushed out because we couldn't be bothered ending it properly and you're too stupid to know that we simply just don't give a shit, thanks for the sales and the advertising revenue".
 

MisterGobbles

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End of Evangelion, right down to the very script, was planned to be the original ending. But due to censorship issues as well as lack of funding, they rewrote it into a trippy analysis of the main characters. So it was kinda a puss-out.

I liked the ending, but I'm not sure I would like it as much if they hadn't made End of Evangelion to give the thing some context. People didn't like it because it almost was a non-sequitur and didn't offer any resolution to the actual plot besides the tortured main characters (which admittedly was the entire point of the show).
 

Austin Howe

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BonsaiK said:
Austin Howe said:
No really, why? The main "action conflict" of the show, protecting earth from the angels, had been resolved in Episode 24. Episodes 25 and 26 are best described as the "falling action". It tries to resolve the conflicts with the characters, and because most if not all of them are intra-personal(1), it resorted to an existential smackdown where the characters are forced against A) The harshness of reality, and B) How easilly hat reality is changed. It was not at all meaningless. If the show had simply resolved at 24 with a few minutes of closing that wasn't like what actually happened, it had been well established throughout the seris that we would've been left with a host of characters whose lives are no longer wrth living because all of their self-worth and purpose comes from piloting the EVAs. It had to find a way to resolve without being a tragedy, and it worked.

Please do discus. That ending was really not worth the death threats.

(1) Due to the death of Toji, there were no longer narrative threads regarding the sexual relationships between the characters.
I hate the ending because it's rubbish. They just ran out of money and tacked on a bunch of nonsense and effects, shooting for some kind of 2001-style existentialism but it's pretty obvious that none of it actually means anything and it's just a bunch of "let's play around with cutting and try and look deep and meaningful to try and hide the fact we don't actually have the time or money to do this properly, hopefully we can hoodwink the fans enough to think that all this crap actually means something more than what it really is". In other words, the makers of NVE think their audience is stupid, and the ending is an insult to those people - they are basically saying "hey guys, you're pretty dumb, so you'll swallow this dumb ending we rushed out because we couldn't be bothered ending it properly and you're too stupid to know that we simply just don't give a shit, thanks for the sales and the advertising revenue".
Except that that's not true, except for the part about the budget. The ending had already been done, like I said. Angels; gone. Ok, we've got two episodes left, we need to resolve some character conflicts before the series can come to a close. While I may disagree with how they approached it, the ending successfully confronted each major intra-personal conflict within the four major characters and resolved them in a way that, in the end, made sense. Shinji's logic was following a circualr loop to justify that his life was meaningless without the EVA, and the instrumentality, by displaying to him another possibility of what his life could be, (which the show did by parodying the High-school comedy genre. Witty) showed him that life is definitely worth living without the EVA. With the angels gone, none of those characters had any life worth living in their own perception. The ending changed their perception. The thing that's questionable is mostly the delivery of it, suing a concept that was not at all hinted at and that wasn't tied in to the action conflict of the show, nor the inter-personal relationships of the characters.