Poll: Why do we need R18+?

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Your poll is missing some options. R18 doesn't necessarily mean violence. It also could mean sexual content or controversial topics. Not having an R18 rating means that videogame developers will eventually become less likely to explore areas that would help to further the genre.

I've waffled on about sex before but I do think it's important if gaming is going to collectively grow up and start playing on the same field as movies and literature that we need to come to grips with human sexuality (This is also something I feel the American film industry needs to do en masse). It happens and it isn't evil or wrong, and depictions of it can be tasteful and related to story and etc etc, but we need a rating that will allow us to do that and until Australia and America have a collective unbunching of their panties that needs to be R18 not M15.

Drug use, paedophilia (in say a detective storyline), incest (same). These are all things which if you suggested putting them into a movie would pretty much automatically send your movie into 188 territory, so while games still have limits of localisation in place people will steer clear. Some of the best detective stories (especially of the noir variety) I have ever seen involve deeply disturbing, and very dark contents you couldn't put into a 15 rated game, so the 18 rating would allow developers to expand in terms of story content, and when sotry content is expanded, the medium as a whole grows.

R18 is not solely about violence, and even if it was, your opinions are your own and I respect that, but some people do think a game rated as graphic as an R18 is worth playing. Never assume people hold the same opinions as you.

 

[Golden Hawk]

@Lexodus, that is a rather shallow interpretation, and yes, the only reason i joined this forum was to be a troll... Oh, whoops, no, that wasn't it. it was the expectation of some mature conversation...

@Mamaman, thanks, again, misinterpretation, not once did I claim R18 shouldn't exist, and I assume you may have written an entirely more positive answer if I hadn't written my own opinion down.

@PoisonUnagi, thanks for a very insightful comment...

@AugustFall, thanks, I have the same standpoint to you, 'Some people like [R18+ games], I don't but I don't want to deprive people of them because I don't like them.'

 

[Atmos Duality]

To save the childrens from events and concepts they will become aware of anyway when they grow up.

 

[Golden Hawk]

Your poll is missing some options. R18 doesn't necessarily mean violence. It also could mean sexual content or controversial topics. Not having an R18 rating means that videogame developers will eventually become less likely to explore areas that would help to further the genre.

I've waffled on about sex before but I do think it's important if gaming is going to collectively grow up and start playing on the same field as movies and literature that we need to come to grips with human sexuality (This is also something I feel the American film industry needs to do en masse). It happens and it isn't evil or wrong, and depictions of it can be tasteful and related to story and etc etc, but we need a rating that will allow us to do that and until Australia and America have a collective unbunching of their panties that needs to be R18 not M15.

Drug use, paedophilia (in say a detective storyline), incest (same). These are all things which if you suggested putting them into a movie would pretty much automatically send your movie into 188 territory, so while games still have limits of localisation in place people will steer clear. Some of the best detective stories (especially of the noir variety) I have ever seen involve deeply disturbing, and very dark contents you couldn't put into a 15 rated game, so the 18 rating would allow developers to expand in terms of story content, and when sotry content is expanded, the medium as a whole grows.

R18 is not solely about violence, and even if it was, your opinions are your own and I respect that, but some people do think a game rated as graphic as an R18 is worth playing. Never assume people hold the same opinions as you.

Thanks, very insightful, and I knew very few people have the same opinion as me (which I'm grateful for, cause the world would be a boring place if we were all the same)

 

[bushwhacker2k]

The reason R18+ is used is to prevent minors from being exposed to things that people above 18 deem them unable to process positively. I think i put that well, I could be wrong though.

I feel that sometimes people are overprotective of the young sometimes.

An example of why I feel that way is that people put such emphasis on curse words when ultimately they are just that. Words. If it wasn't a big deal, kids wouldn't say them even if they did know them.

Sex, I can pretty much understand why, though if you expect that young teenagers do not masturbate (hope I'm not saying anything risque, just trying to be realistic here) at all, then I think you may also be under the misconception that your child was 'immaculately conceived'.

Violence is probably the hardest one to talk around. I personally feel that video games can't really define someone's personality (unless they have absolutely no other outside influences, which would only work in a bizarre experiment on new-born babies, but that's a bit outside of where I was going...) and as such, video games cannot be solely blamed for actions of individuals. That's my opinion, anyways.

 

[octafish]

Because I am thinking of the children.

 

[Custard_Angel]

It's to be responsible.

An R18+ classification means that the 'knee-jerk' reaction party is happy (because the precious snowflakes are protected from boobs and swears) and also that fans of the stuff are happy too (because the games, movies, books etc. will actually be made and released).

It's the right thing to do to make as many people happy as possible.

 

[Caliostro]

Hi, I'd just like to introduce myself to the Escapist. Anyway, I've been reading through the forums for a long time and I perceive a lot of fixation over the institution of an R18+ games rating for Australia. Now personally, just for the sake of creating some well meaning discussion, I'd like to question why? For what reason should we have R18+ ratings?

And please don't say 'because everyone else has one', it is not a logical reason.

Personally, I dislike playing games above an M15+ rating. In my mind's eye, if a game is so graphic or violent that it is rated MA15+, I don't need to play it; it's just violence for the sake of violence. Yes, I just shot that person with my blaster. Yes, they got shot in the arm, yes they fell over and died. So? My objection to R18+ games is that I don't want (or need) to see the person's arm being blown off in a splash of blood, with tendons still hanging from the dismembered flesh and the person screaming wildly as you then proceed to bludgeon them to death with their own arm. I realize now that a lot of hardcore gamers will disagree with this point, as they tend to regard ?realism? as central to a game.

I agree that realism is, to an extent, vital to a game in this modern age. However, mindless violence is detrimental to many games (remember the outrage of Australian gamers when, I think it was Dead Rising 2, had to be modified to fit the MA15+ ratings for Australia? One of the thrilling things they were missing out on was specifically 'the ability to strangle to death with the victim?s intestines'. Ha ha...) Perhaps a reasonable alternative could be that games could have in-built rating customisation? In the same way you change difficulty, why not change the amount of violence, gore etc? In Unreal Tournament there is always an option to turn off blood and gore, and because of this I've spent many happy hours versing my like-minded mates.

That said, I have played and enjoyed (enjoyed a lot!) MA15+ games such as Halo: Reach and Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, and I believe them to be excellent. However, these games were neither mindlessly or gratuitously violent.

I guess all that I'm really saying is that it saddens me that whenever I walk into EB games these days, it's an actual struggle to find any game that isn?t rated MA15+ for the 360, and a torment to actually find many good games rated under MA15+. So I have to sit sadly on my couch, continually playing NBA Live or go back to playing wonderful PS1 games such as Crash and Spyro...

Anyway, after all that, I don't want comments on my opinion. If you decide to abuse, insult or objectify me, you probably only read the first sentence of my post, AND you are missing the point of this thread. Read the first paragraph again and comment on that please! Thanks!

GH

"I", "I", "I", "I", "Me", "Me", "Me", "Me", "My", "My", "I", "I" ....etc. "I think", "I like", "I want".

There's a world that doesn't involve you or what you like. There are other people in this world that like things that may or may not have anything to do with things you like. Nobody's forcing you to buy 18+ games. Not having a 18+ rating, on the other hand, essentially bans these games for everyone else.

So, here's a thought: Considering that nobody's pointing a gun to your head and making you play these games, you can play your 15+ games, and other people can play whatever the hell they want. Sounds good?

I will say that it's absurdly hypocritical to complain about gore or explicit imagery in games about MURDER or violence (i.e.: 99% of them). It's ok to stab people in the neck with a knife, or shoot them through the head with a shotgun, just as long as I don't have to see them bleed! It's like those people that complain about "BAD WORDS!!!" (which don't really exist, but whatever) in war simulators... Oh, you people!

 

[Bad Jim]

And please don't say 'because everyone else has one', it is not a logical reason.

Actually it is a logical reason. The majority of games are developed in other countries. Not having R18 means games must be watered down so they can be sold in Australia.

Looking around my room I have some good games with 18 certificates ( I'm in the UK btw ): GTA games, Fallout 3, Unreal Tournament 3 and Bioshock. Not just the likes of Postal. I think Aussies should be allowed to enjoy them the way the developers intended.

 

[Lbsjr]

I think its really only because the thought of something that they can't control fills them with a fear so deep and painful they have to do the most retarded things for people in the area. This is a problem everywhere and anyone not seeing this obviously hasn't heard of the censorship of comics, films, or books over the course of history in almost every culture. I wouldn't be surprised to go back in time and see someone who is probably a younger Hillery Clinton banning cave paintings in the cave man era.... Its a lack of control over something they don't and most likely won't understand because they don't want to or think they don't need to. The basic ESRB is already more than enough for people right now if your willing to do something you should have learned how to do in Preschool. Read. The. Ratings. Its one of the most strict non religious systems out there. it has the rating for a reason. to let you decide if you want this for yourself or your children. It ought to be up to you. Not the government no matter what they say or feel. Hell, I think children should be allowed to choose if they want to get the GTA or CoD or whatever is out there. Why shouldn't children be able to decide for themselves? I mean, yeah, parents who are worth a damn are gonna help them, but the kid is who's going to play the game nine times out of ten. Why shouldn't they have any choice? Because they are young? Bull. Youth is when your supposed to jump off slides and hurt yourself so you know what not to do. Limit that, and you get psychopaths. All this is just my opinion.




TL;DR Version: Those in politics are scared of them so they wanna control it.

 

[Baneat]

18's a bit high, 16 is enough for any type of content..

that being said maybe better just to deliberately overdo it just to be sure.

 

[Trolldor]

Hi, I'd just like to introduce myself to the Escapist. Anyway, I've been reading through the forums for a long time and I perceive a lot of fixation over the institution of an R18+ games rating for Australia. Now personally, just for the sake of creating some well meaning discussion, I'd like to question why? For what reason should we have R18+ ratings?

And please don't say 'because everyone else has one', it is not a logical reason.

Personally, I dislike playing games above an M15+ rating. In my mind's eye, if a game is so graphic or violent that it is rated MA15+, I don't need to play it; it's just violence for the sake of violence. Yes, I just shot that person with my blaster. Yes, they got shot in the arm, yes they fell over and died. So? My objection to R18+ games is that I don't want (or need) to see the person's arm being blown off in a splash of blood, with tendons still hanging from the dismembered flesh and the person screaming wildly as you then proceed to bludgeon them to death with their own arm. I realise now that a lot of hardcore gamers will disagree with this point, as they tend to regard ?realism? as central to a game.

I agree that realism is, to an extent, vital to a game in this modern age. However, mindless violence is detrimental to many games (remember the outrage of Australian gamers when, I think it was Dead Rising 2, had to be modified to fit the MA15+ ratings for Australia? One of the thrilling things they were missing out on was specifically 'the ability to strangle to death with the victim?s intestines'. Ha ha...) Perhaps a reasonable alternative could be that games could have in-built rating customisation? In the same way you change difficulty, why not change the amount of violence, gore etc? In Unreal Tournament there is always an option to turn off blood and gore, and because of this I've spent many happy hours versing my like-minded mates.

That said, I have played and enjoyed (enjoyed a lot!) MA15+ games such as Halo: Reach and Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, and I believe them to be excellent. However, these games were neither mindlessly or gratuitously violent.

I guess all that I'm really saying is that it saddens me that whenever I walk into EB games these days, it's an actual struggle to find any game that isn?t rated MA15+ for the 360, and a torment to actually find many good games rated under MA15+. So I have to sit sadly on my couch, continually playing NBA Live or go back to playing wonderful PS1 games such as Crash and Spyro...

Anyway, after all that, I don't want comments on my opinion. If you decide to abuse, insult or objectify me, you probably only read the first sentence of my post, AND you are missing the point of this thread. Read the first paragraph again and comment on that please! Thanks!

GH

R18+ is a stricter method of control, as everyone has stated repeatedly.

We already have games that are 18+ in other countries, but they've been lowered to an MA15+ label in Australia.

R18+ will ensure that, yes, we have more games in Australia, but it will also limit sale of those games to those 18 or over. It will better regulate the sale of current games.
If you don't want to play them, then don't. But what you can be bothered to play is irrelevant (And yes, if you introduce an opinion you will get it criticised. If you don't want it to be, don't state it.)

Aliens vs Predator (2010) is unchanged and uncensored. It is MA15+, in most other countries it is R18+

It is a game 15 year olds can legally play and purchase. Introducing an R18+ rating will actually restrict the content that children and teenagers can get access to while allowing adults the freedom to play games without being told they're not capable of handling them by the Government.

That is why.

 

[elvor0]

I have read your entire post and while I realise that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that doesnt make it immune to critisicim, or lack of justification and I'm going to criticise yours by saying:

"I dont like something therefore there is no reason for it to exist and everyone else can suffer" is what you just said. What you just said is a selfish sentiment which has no valid reason to have been posted. You haven't justified it in the slightest, all you've done is said my TL DR version of what you said in many many paragraphs.

Also, because everyone else has R18 is a perfectly good reason, justify your opinion on why it isn't.

Normally I will ALWAYS justify any of my opinions, in this case however, I don't need to, you need to justify yours because I'm calling you out.

 

[Shiftysnowdog]

Go and watch a movie called Requiem for a Dream. Then you will understand why there needs to be an 18+ rating.

It hasn't happened yet, but once the gaming industry has made a game that is as disturbing to play as Requiem is to watch, then, we will need an 18+ rating.

 

[elvor0]

Go and watch a movie called Requiem for a Dream. Then you will understand why there needs to be an 18+ rating.

It hasn't happened yet, but once the gaming industry has made a game that is as disturbing to play as Requiem is to watch, then, we will need an 18+ rating.

Try Amnesia, that's quite disturbing to play andI've heard Heavy Rain is supposed to be quite disturbing too, although its more of a interactive movie than a game. I need to check out Reqium for a Dream now though, just to see if it's that disturbing.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

R18+ is a stricter method of control, as everyone has stated repeatedly.

We already have games that are 18+ in other countries, but they've been lowered to an MA15+ label in Australia.

Despite the handwringing and screaming of "AUSTRALIA SUCKS AND HATES FREEDOM!" (mostly from pricks who don't even live here) games being squeezed into MA15+ unaltered is far more common than altered content or getting slapped with a Refused Classification rating. When you pull the numbers up, the amount of games RC'ed or altered averages roughly 1 per year.

 

[spartan231490]

There is no, "we don't need one" option. Honestly, when I was 15, I could handle graphic violence and sexual themes. I know this, because I was exposed to both well before then, and I turned out no more dysfunctional than the kids whose parents kept them playing T rated games. Less so than most of them, in fact. Honestly, society needs to get over this "PROTECT THE CHILDREN" thing. yes, children are important, but they aren't as fragile as we think they are. We need to change the age of majority to a universal 16(this is my opinion). 16 for driving, for hunting, for voting, for sexual consent, and for drinking.

 

[manaman]

@Lexodus, that is a rather shallow interpretation, and yes, the only reason i joined this forum was to be a troll... Oh, whoops, no, that wasn't it. it was the expectation of some mature conversation...

@Mamaman, thanks, again, misinterpretation, not once did I claim R18 shouldn't exist, and I assume you may have written an entirely more positive answer if I hadn't written my own opinion down.

@PoisonUnagi, thanks for a very insightful comment...

@AugustFall, thanks, I have the same standpoint to you, 'Some people like [R18+ games], I don't but I don't want to deprive people of them because I don't like them.'

Gotta use the quote button there buddy, otherwise people don't know you responded.

How is it a misinterpretation of what you said anyway? You said you don't want the rating category to exits because you don't find enjoyment in those games. I can only extrapolate from that point that you might also not want it to exist because you feel more games will be made that fall outside of the type of games you like, through that is not explicitly stated in your original post.

Now if it wasn't your intention to say that the rating category should not exist solely because you don't like the games that tend to fall into it, you should probably fix your post so what you do intend to say is clearer. I am obviously not the only person in this tread coming to the same conclusion off your post.

And my answer would have still been the same if you where just asking for opinions on why Australia needs an R18+ rating. "Why not?" Is a much better question. There are no benefits to not having a ratting for games geared towards adults, and there are tangible benefits for it existing, was the gist of my answer.

 

[Sprogus]

Basically, because parents are stupid. They don't research what they are letting their kids play with. Then they see the kid play the incredibly violent game, get angry about it and blame everyone but themselves for the their poor parenting.

 

[RUINER ACTUAL]

From an art standpoint, it really isn't needed. I think it's mostly need for parents so they know what is appropriate for their kids. But if you've played Halo, you know it doesn't help.