Poll: Why I don't like Elves

Skeleon

New member
Nov 2, 2007
5,410
0
0
Okay, this is primarily a rant, but you're invited to comment or post your own point of view on Elves or any other fictional race. Note that my knowledge of Elves stems primarily from LOTR (both the books and the movies) as well as some other literature and several different games. Anyway, here goes.

Whenever I'm playing a game with generic fantasy, I try my best to stay away from the Elves.
I just don't like them. I can't identify with them.
When playing, I usually go for the Humans. And if that's not possible, I go for Dwarves or an "evil" race. Yes, I prefer stinking Morgul rats over glorious shiny Elves.

Where does this distaste stem from, you might ask.
Well, I don't think it's the pointy ears. After all, Vulcans have pointy ears and I like them just fine. Is it their feminity?
Maybe, but late last evening, the main reason struck me.

Elves don't develop. And characters that don't develop are either very boring or at least more shallow than the others. Extrapolate that to an entire race of people and you end up with the Elves.

Elves are immortal/extremely long-lived, beautiful and magically talented. But all of these qualities are inherent to them. They did not work to become magically talented, like a human wizard would (spending years upon years, studying the arcane arts).
They live in the woods/ancient cities, primarily spending their time writing poetry or pondering things from the past. They seem to only live in the yesteryear and the now, not thinking too much about the imminent future (unless it's some vague prophecy from the past).

Humans, on the other hand, are short-lived, quick to reproduce and adapt, constantly working. They build large fortresses, stone cities, monuments, farms and so on. They shape the world around them. They spend their time working, to improve themselves and the situation they live in. They bring forth great empires, live in communities of different sizes, styles and alignments and invent new things. Humans are progress incarnate in most fantasy scenarios.

Elves are not. Never changing, stuck in the past and uninventive = uninspiring and slow.

Let's continue: Dwarves have, in many aspects, exaggerated Human-traits.
Even though, in fact, in many stories it's actually the Dwarves who first tought the Humans (often depicted as their close allies, and with good reason), how to form metals and create houses from rock. And I can dig it, it makes sense.
They aren't exactly Humans, but they still come closer to us than any other fictional race. They are longer-lived (though the extent varies), smaller and grumpy. They spend most of their time underground, working to gain the riches of the soil, i.e. various metals and gems. But it's not just their greed, that is so human. It's also their need to create: Master blacksmiths and masons, they forge the finest armor and weapons in the land and build giant and beautiful stone halls, runically ornamented. They also know how to brew a stout beer.

So while the Dwarves are more specialized (and in some ways, limited) than the Humans, they still are basically human in their desire to create and improve, to leave a mark on the world.

Elves, on the other hand, seem to primarily hold on to old ideals and traditions.
Sometimes this feels noble, but most of the time it's just backwards.
And this, I believe, is the main reason why I can't identify with Elves. At all.

Except for the Blood Elves from TFT. They kick ass.
But then again, they were forced into progress.
And I suppose that's my point.
 

Internet Kraken

Animalia Mollusca Cephalopada
Mar 18, 2009
6,915
0
0
You have a point. Most Elves are already the definition of perfection, or very close to it. So they never really develop as characters.
 

puppydogvaan

New member
Mar 26, 2009
238
0
0
Kukul said:
Am I the only one, who thinks Elfs are kinda like gays and Dwarfs are kinda like Jews?
It would make sense because Tolkien admitted that Nazis were a big inspiration for orcs, who wanted to exterminate them.
Intriguing thought...*goes off to reread the books*


Honestly, some of the elves of Middle Earth were a little hard to relate to, for the precise reason the OP named: they don't seem to grow over time. (Legolas being an exception, as he and Gimli learned to stop being douchebags to each other and renounce racism. Awww.)

I like the elves of the Forgotten Realms stories, personally, as they aren't immortal and are more identifiable.
 

MaxFan

New member
Nov 15, 2008
251
0
0
Skeleon said:
Elves, on the other hand, seem to primarily hold on to old ideals and traditions. Sometimes this feels noble, but most of the time it's just backwards. And this, I believe, is the main reason why I can't identify with Elves. At all.

Except for the Blood Elves from TFT. They kick ass.
But then again, they were forced into progress.
And I suppose that's my point.
You seem to assume that change and progress are the same thing. Change is not progress in and of itself, and can actually be a form of regress. That's the point of the traditions the Elves hold in most fantasy. Except of course all those evil elves.

I agree that having no change can make for uninteresting stories, though.
 

garfoldsomeoneelse

Charming, But Stupid
Mar 22, 2009
2,908
0
0
I was never able to put my finger on why I hated elves, until now.
You just nailed it, my friend. That unrelenting feeling of "I know there's a reason why these assholes bore me, but I don't quite understand why" has just been identified.
 

Zacharine

New member
Apr 17, 2009
2,854
0
0
One could make a point here about the Drow of the Forgotten Realms. A subset of elves, living underground and in constant covert warfare against each other.

While they too exhibit a great endency to think traditionally, at least they have to fight for it. And personal training is of utmost importance: talented or not, it means squat if your opponent is just as talented as you.

Then there is the Deathgate saga. While similar problems do exist, in the world of Air the situation is exactly opposite: Elves are the ruling power for most areas, because of their proactive stance on things, aggressive-ish nature and progression in things. While humans fly around with tamed dragons, the elves have made dragon-ships, artificial constructs fuelled by their magic. And no-one else knows how to make them.

But in general, I would agree with the OP. Most elven races and societies in fiction are stagnant.
 

Ghostdraconi

New member
Nov 11, 2008
9
0
0
I'm curious of what you guys think of the elves in Dragon Age, from what I've seen they seem atypical of the usual fantasy elves.
 

Zacharine

New member
Apr 17, 2009
2,854
0
0
scobie said:
The elves of the Discworld books, for one, are awesome. As villains, I mean. They're not exactly role-models.
What, was it all that baby-eating that got to you? Doesn't it just make them adorable?

"As the old stories say, elves are beautiful. Elves are wise. Elves are strong. They are enchanted. They are the Fair Folk. But nowhere do the stories say that the elves are nice...."

I still love Pratchett for writing that... :)
 

Skeleon

New member
Nov 2, 2007
5,410
0
0
MaxFan said:
You seem to assume that change and progress are the same thing. Change is not progress in and of itself, and can actually be a form of regress.
True, but constant stagnation is even worse than regressing because at least the latter makes for better stories, like you said.
Let's rephrase it this way:
Change itself is what is important to create an interesting race because it allows it to develop at all.
The actual progress/regress is what defines the way this race'll develop. So it's what can define the later alignment and role it has to play.
 

Khazoth

New member
Sep 4, 2008
1,229
0
0
I'm an orc, elves are only good for footstools and worker drones, and target practice.


Mostly target practice.
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
Depends on the elves. I rather like Tolkien's elves, Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms' Drow, the Night and Blood Elves of WoW, the Elves and Eladrin of D&D 4e, and probably a couple of others I'm forgetting.

Skeleon said:
Okay, this is primarily a rant, but you're invited to comment or post your own point of view on Elves or any other fictional race. Note that my knowledge of Elves stems primarily from LOTR (both the books and the movies) as well as some other literature and several different games. Anyway, here goes.
Ever read the Silmarillion?
 

The Iron Ninja

New member
Aug 13, 2008
2,868
0
0
The only issue I have with your points are that there are so many different types of elves in many different stories or games, many of which are portrayed in a different light than the perfect demi-gods they are often shown as (Such as the example of Blood elves that you gave).

I agree with the main point though, the run of the mill "look at me, I'm perfect and wise" elves don't interest me. They have no obstacles to overcome, the story starts of with "they are the best" and ends with "they're still the best." I much prefer the idea of something weak becoming strong, so there's actually development of character.
 

Skeleon

New member
Nov 2, 2007
5,410
0
0
NeutralDrow said:
Ever read the Silmarillion?
Unfortunately, no.
I tried to get into it once, but couldn't really get past all the mythology near the start.
I only read LOTR and The Hobbit.

Currently, I'm working my way through the Dune series. Afterwards, I might give it another try. Is it worth it?

EDIT:

Kukul said:
Don't do it. It's like reading an Indian phonebook.
Guess that answers my question. Heh.

EDIT 2:

The Iron Ninja said:
The only issue I have with your points are that there are so many different types of elves in many different stories or games...
Yeah, you're right about that.
I primarily meant the generic, Tolkien-inspired fantasy.
Note that Warcraft started off with those Elves. Twice (High Elfs and Night Elves a.k.a. Wood Elves).
I once read a book by Tad Williams (War of the Flowers, I think) that was about a parallel world with Elves, Faires and Pixies and so on. In today's world. And it was very enjoyable.
But those weren't the stagnant kind, either, they actually combined magic and technology in a reasonably believable way.
 

AtticusSP

New member
Apr 6, 2009
419
0
0
As a fan of the Elder Scrolls, I've developed a hatred for Elves.
Mostly wood elves.
All the worst characters are elves. Fucking Fargoth was an elf.

In reality, I just find them boring and generic, And most things elves are in glorify them too much. Elder Scrolls modding community fucking related. Finding Nordic themed mods is fucking impossible. Finding Elvish themed mods produces more pages than I care to scroll through.