Poll: Why "intellectual" games don't work.

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yeti585

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(see The Witness)
The gaming industry is plagued by mind-numbingly-violent games. This is both a curse and a blessing. So what do we do about it? Well some developers have gone in a total opposite direction to the gaming cliche. These are companies and people with a vision of a zen-like few hours of relaxation and heavy thinking.

The problem is that these games do not work. The formula for video games has always been
said:
gore + scantily clad women + reward system = good video game
(Please note that "good video game" is not my opinion on the whole thing but just an observation. Also that I am not trying to be sexist, but just pointing out that there is not quite as much cloth allotted to female characters.)
This formula has been upheld because games made in this way were interesting, even if they grabbed the audiences attention in a way so juvenile. "Intellectual" games do not have this luxury. They cannot play on these things and still have the label that they are pursuing. So the game has to resort to other devices to grab the audiences attention. This is not a bad thing, but it is never done correctly.

It is precedent that these games rely on mostly, if not entirely, on story to gain a players attention. Again, not a bad thing, and most games today should take a story to the face. But, by over relying on story you sacrifice gameplay. Ah... gameplay the thing that sets video games apart from other forms of entertainment (well that and immersion, but we will get to that later). More often then not a game with this label lets gameplay fall by the wayside. Much of the (sub)genre just does not get that if a game is not fun to play, the story might as well be as interesting as a wet dishcloth.

Immersion, a word that carries weight in the gaming industry. You think that these games would use this as the point to wrap the audiences attention around their fingers. But, the end product is usually emotionless, robotic, and uninteresting. The audience is almost never given an emotional shock that could match that of a beloved character being slain in front of you, or that of being burned alive while your comrades are screaming about the Russian super-terrorists over the radio (The latter a la Modern Warfare 2)

If these problems are fixed then this genre/subgenre/label/freak occurrence could save gaming, kill gaming, defeat big businesses, lay the blade upon the neck of the indie community, or any number of different paths that the gaming industry could walk. I digress, What do you guys think?
 

yeti585

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Vault101 said:
what the fuck is an "intullectual" game?
I would say "a game that has the purpose of refining the gaming industry and steering it away from the normal of gore, sex, and '0h m4h g4wD qW1(k Skop!!!1!!one!'" But I see how it could mean many different things.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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yeti585 said:
Vault101 said:
what the fuck is an "intullectual" game?
I would say "a game that has the purpose of refining the gaming industry and steering it away from the normal of gore, sex, and '0h m4h g4wD qW1(k Skop!!!1!!one!'" But I see how it could mean many different things.
no game comes out with that specific purpose..a games specific purpose (at least in AAA) is to alwyas sell copies and mabye gain a fanbase

doing new/different things is never a bad thing
 

skywolfblue

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Vault101 said:
what the fuck is an "intullectual" game?
This.

I think you meant to say "Non-violent" instead, yeti585.

- Strategy games like Starcraft have loads of blood and gore, but they're entirely cerebral thinking games.

- Wii sports may not have any gore, but it doesn't require much thinking either.

Most of the time when I hear "Intellectual Game" it means pretentious "artsy" stuff that is completely and utterly boring. That is why most non-violent games don't work, the developers get so caught up in story or mechanics or innovation that they forgot "Fun".

An example of a non-violent game that was a success would be Portal 1&2. That was a sash hit and proves that people will be willing to play non-violent games if they're fun.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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...

Wut?

I think you're trying to say that games that aren't violent don't work?

That is an unequivocally false.
 

The Wykydtron

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Sep 23, 2010
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Persona 4 exists. Your argument is invalid XD

I'll stop shouting PERSONA 4!!1111! at everything when it stops being so true and relevent dammit!

And i suppose Bioshock for the cool blend of shooty fun and philosophical tomfoolery


See also the Ace Attorney games. I can't really describe the relationship between the gameplay and the story except to say that one couldn't exist without the other... The gameplay exists to advance the story and the story is the entire point of the gameplay.

That must be the perfect gameplay/story ratio in a nutshell really. When you make it so one can't exist without the other...

Am I still on topic here? I don't fucking know...
 

him over there

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skywolfblue said:
Vault101 said:
what the fuck is an "intullectual" game?
This.

I think you meant to say "Non-violent" instead.

Strategy games like Starcraft have loads of blood and gore, but they're entirely cerebral thinking games.

Most of the time when I hear "Intellectual Game" it means pretentious "artsy" stuff that is completely and utterly boring. That is why most non-violent games don't work, the developers get so caught up in story or mechanics or innovation that they forgot "Fun".

An example of a non-violent game that was a success would be Portal 1&2. That was a sash hit and proves that people will be willing to play non-violent games if they're fun.
I think by intellectual he might have meant "pseudo-intellectual bullshit."

Most of these games don't work not because they don't have explosions but because you don't do anything of substance, the actions in the gameplay themselves have to be engaging and gripping for anything else to work. This is even when AAA games want to be artistic they often have to resort to violence. At least shit happens. You can watch people talk on a movie screen for 2 hours because that's what you're there for. With a game you can't do that, you have to be doing something, and to make it engaging that thing usually needs to have some sort of action or tension.
 

Scow2

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skywolfblue said:
Vault101 said:
what the fuck is an "intullectual" game?
This.

I think you meant to say "Non-violent" instead.

- Strategy games like Starcraft have loads of blood and gore, but they're entirely cerebral thinking games.

- Wii sports may not have any gore, but it doesn't require much thinking either.

Most of the time when I hear "Intellectual Game" it means pretentious "artsy" stuff that is completely and utterly boring. That is why most non-violent games don't work, the developers get so caught up in story or mechanics or innovation that they forgot "Fun".

An example of a non-violent game that was a success would be Portal 1&2. That was a sash hit and proves that people will be willing to play non-violent games if they're fun.
By "Intellectual Game", he means things like "Braid", "Dear Esther", and about 90% of those "Atmospheric, Minimalistic, and Deep" Platform and Action games over on sites like Kongregate.

Follow the headlines and it's easy to figure out.
 

Vegosiux

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skywolfblue said:
An example of a non-violent game that was a success would be Portal 1&2. That was a sash hit and proves that people will be willing to play non-violent games if they're fun.
Thanks in no part to GLaDOS and Cave Johnson, of course. I'd still have enjoyed both even without the constant snarking, but I bet many people wouldn't as much.

As for "intellectual" games, I'll again point back to the Infocom text adventures. Those got you thinking.
 

yeti585

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skywolfblue said:
Vault101 said:
what the fuck is an "intullectual" game?
This.

I think you meant to say "Non-violent" instead.

Strategy games like Starcraft have loads of blood and gore, but they're entirely cerebral thinking games.

Most of the time when I hear "Intellectual Game" it means pretentious "artsy" stuff that is completely and utterly boring. That is why most non-violent games don't work, the developers get so caught up in story or mechanics or innovation that they forgot "Fun".

An example of a non-violent game that was a success would be Portal 1&2. That was a sash hit and proves that people will be willing to play non-violent games if they're fun.
I don't exactly mean non-violent. Any of the guitar hero games are non violent, but aren't what I'm referring too. I originally worded the post to say "artsy" in the way that you stated it, but that does not encompass all the games I want it too. Portal (1 and 2) is one of the only games that has actually pioneered in this area and has been good, if not stellar. Portal Is a great example of the games I'm referring to because portal deviates from the "normal" in video games. It creates a nice story without sacrificing fun, and it doesn't try any pretentious art stuff. The "pretentious artsy" games are the ones I was ranting about because they seem to insult gaming rather than influence it.
 

More Fun To Compute

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I don't know what you are arguing, starting by talking about the witness which is a game that hasn't been released yet. Can't exactly build a convincing case for something based on the idea that was a failure because it didn't have enough sex, violence and weapons grade psychological reward center tweaking. But it was inspired by Myst which was a game about exploring and heavy thinking. That game did quite well and people enjoyed it but it didn't kill off Quake or whatever.
 

Wayneguard

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Honestly, if you are interested in expanding your intellectual bounds, video games are about the least efficient way to do it. If you're interested in 19th century French philosophy, read a fucking book or take a class; certainly don't ***** until someone like J. Blow makes a game that has pseudo-philosophical undertones and then hail it as the coming of Christ bringing salvation to the ignorant gaming masses. This approach will serve the dual purposes of enriching your life (and intellect) and will prevent you from coming across as a pretentious fuck.
 

Rawne1980

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Daystar Clarion said:
...

Wut?

I think you're trying to say that games that aren't violent don't work?

That is an unequivocally false.
But violence helps.....

Lots of violence.....

I JUST LIKE SHOOTING THINGS....
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Rawne1980 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
...

Wut?

I think you're trying to say that games that aren't violent don't work?

That is an unequivocally false.
But violence helps.....

Lots of violence.....

I JUST LIKE SHOOTING THINGS....
I fear for the safety of your children :D
 

Rawne1980

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Daystar Clarion said:
I fear for the safety of your children :D
Fear not Daystar, I could never harm my children.

Mainly because that would bring about the wrath of my wife and she scares the ever living crap out of me when she gets mad.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Rawne1980 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
I fear for the safety of your children :D
Fear not Daystar, I could never harm my children.

Mainly because that would bring about the wrath of my wife and she scares the ever living crap out of me when she gets mad.
The solution is some sort of cannon, for which to fire the children out of.

Then you fire yourself out of the cannon to avoid marital wrath.
 

Freechoice

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Vault101 said:
what the fuck is an "intullectual" game?
A funny type of ironing.

Also, Deus Ex series blends philosophy and gameplay. OP is being like Blow without any of the redeeming correctness.

More ironing. Go post this on /vg/ and link us the results.
 

Kahunaburger

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Wait, so is OP's assumption that video games in which you kill stuff can't be intellectual, or that games with a pretentious aesthetic are somehow automatically intellectual by virtue of their pretension?
 

distortedreality

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Freechoice said:
Vault101 said:
what the fuck is an "intullectual" game?
A funny type of ironing.

Also, Deus Ex series blends philosophy and gameplay. OP is being like Blow without any of the redeeming correctness.

More ironing. Go post this on /vg/ and link us the results.
Heh, I lol'd.

OT - sorry OP, you failed.