Poll: Why Teens Don't Respect Adults, and Visa Versa

[Antidamacus]

as if there is some magical transformation from the age of 17 to 18 that will suddenly mold me into yet another adult that understands anything and everything.

In a nutshell.... yes there is.

In fact, the only difference between me and the average adult is the different expectations placed upon us.

Actually no the difference between you and an adult is body differences like hormones and mind differences like cognitive development.

Saying you are basically a tiny adult smacks in the face of adolescent psychology.

 

[Delicious]

as if there is some magical transformation from the age of 17 to 18 that will suddenly mold me into yet another adult that understands anything and everything.

In a nutshell.... yes there is.

In fact, the only difference between me and the average adult is the different expectations placed upon us.

Actually no the difference between you and an adult is body differences like hormones and mind differences like cognitive development.

Saying you are basically a tiny adult smacks in the face of adolescent psychology.

An age is merely a number, as everyone develops differently. So no, simply because I've lived through the same day on a calendar more than once does not automatically mean I've matured.

And we, as the human race, have only begun to understand how the brain works. That is sort of the reason psychology is still considered somewhat of a psuedo-science; we don't have enough evidence to say for certain why people act in certain ways.

And please try to articulate yourself better, I had to reread your post three times due to its awkward wording.

 

[Svenparty]

I keep an open mind, people are judged by their actions not their age.

Some Adults, understand Teenagers and even share similarities with them (Usually people that work with Teens such as lecturers)

Some don't and make no attempt, I put it down to them learning from their mistakes as a Teenager and seeing Us going the same way. Media also plays a part.

 

[McClaud]

I respect any adult who respects me, I don't mind being reprimanded by adults if they do it in an understanding way, for example when I practice parkour at my school, I hate the teachers that say "Oi! do you have any idea how stupid that is!? you could fall and break your neck and I'll be held responsible" that sort of crap, but if they ask what I'm doing and talk to me about it so they understand and then politely tell me to ease up a bit, then I'll respect them for it. The reason I behave is empathy for my parents, I know they sacrifice so much for me and my siblings, and because my older sister is a ***** when she doesn't get what she wants and I try my hardest to not be like her

You sound like a young adult I could get along with. I have respect for younger people who behave like people. You behave like a fool or an animal, chances are I'm going to react to you as if you were a fool or an animal. My respect towards young people rarely has to do with their age, but more by their behavior. I know quite a few young adults who act really adult for their age, as well as a lot of nitwits who act like they are 5 all over again.

I'll respect anyone who gives me cause to do so regardless of age, gender, colour, appearance or anything else. It's a problem I've noticed [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.87295] too, especially in the time I've been a political activist. Hellishly irritating to have people tell you to "Shut up" just because I can't put my mark on a ballot paper yet.

That is irritating, and I can't see why people my age would be like that. We should be encouraging our youth to take an active role in the future of our country, since you are literally the future of our country. Not try to shut you out because you just happen to say something that goes against my belief. Everyone has a valid opinion, and that's what makes democratic countries so awesome.

 

[Antidamacus]

An age is merely a number, as everyone develops differently. So no, simply because I've lived through the same day on a calendar more than once does not automatically mean I've matured.

Then quite frankly, you don't understand psychology.

There are specific things that you learn as you get older. These things are tested, verifiable and most certainly age related. It's not a specific "on the 25th day of your 13th year you become capable of understanding hypothetical situations" but it is most certainly an age progression.

Psychologists like Piaget, Kohlberg and Erikson and many, many more prove this.

And we, as the human race, have only begun to understand how the brain works. That is sort of the reason psychology is still considered somewhat of a psuedo-science; we don't have enough evidence to say for certain why people act in certain ways.

And please try to articulate yourself better, I had to reread your post three times due to its awkward wording.

There are parts of the brain, ways of thinking, that are testable, watchable, and predictable in regards to adolescents and their development.

Adolescents (teenagers) are not just younger adults. There are many complex body differences (they are more hormones that affect mood, among other things) and there are many complex mind differences (they think differently about things than adults in many ways).

These are not because they are stupid or just "haven't lived life", adolescents have different minds than adults.

 

[McClaud]

An age is merely a number, as everyone develops differently. So no, simply because I've lived through the same day on a calendar more than once does not automatically mean I've matured.

Then quite frankly, you don't understand psychology.

There are specific things that you learn as you get older. These things are tested, verifiable and most certainly age related. It's not a specific "on the 25th day of your 13th year you become capable of understanding hypothetical situations" but it is most certainly an age progression.

Psychologists like Piaget, Kohlberg and Erikson and many many more prove this.

And we, as the human race, have only begun to understand how the brain works. That is sort of the reason psychology is still considered somewhat of a psuedo-science; we don't have enough evidence to say for certain why people act in certain ways.

And please try to articulate yourself better, I had to reread your post three times due to its awkward wording.

There are parts of the brain, ways of thinking that are testable, watchable and predictable in regards to adolescents and their development.

Adolescents (teenagers) are not just younger adults. There are many complex body differences (they are more hormones that affect mood, among other things) and there are many complex mind differences (they think differently about things than adults in many ways).

These are not because they are stupid or just "haven't lived life", adolescents have different minds than adults.

Wow, uh, there are other psychological schools other than cognative development. Cognative development and genetic epistemology are only a set of theories that contribute to a much larger factor in the study of human behavior. They help in determining the proper direction of education, for example, but they can't be 100% applied to every individual in every situation.

While it's true that they have different physical attributes and mental capacities at different ages, it's not true that it's quantitative. You may want to remember that psychology - my particular major in college and possibly yours - is so much more than merely trying to link chemical reactions and brain development to particular actions. There's a track of psychological development that is purely interior to the subject that may totally contradict the physiology of the subject.

There's also things like behaviorism and cognitive dissonance, to name a few other factors.

 

[Antidamacus]

An age is merely a number, as everyone develops differently. So no, simply because I've lived through the same day on a calendar more than once does not automatically mean I've matured.

Then quite frankly, you don't understand psychology.

There are specific things that you learn as you get older. These things are tested, verifiable and most certainly age related. It's not a specific "on the 25th day of your 13th year you become capable of understanding hypothetical situations" but it is most certainly an age progression.

Psychologists like Piaget, Kohlberg and Erikson and many many more prove this.

And we, as the human race, have only begun to understand how the brain works. That is sort of the reason psychology is still considered somewhat of a psuedo-science; we don't have enough evidence to say for certain why people act in certain ways.

And please try to articulate yourself better, I had to reread your post three times due to its awkward wording.

There are parts of the brain, ways of thinking that are testable, watchable and predictable in regards to adolescents and their development.

Adolescents (teenagers) are not just younger adults. There are many complex body differences (they are more hormones that affect mood, among other things) and there are many complex mind differences (they think differently about things than adults in many ways).

These are not because they are stupid or just "haven't lived life", adolescents have different minds than adults.

Wow, uh, there are other psychological schools other than cognative development. Cognative development and genetic epistemology are only a set of theories that contribute to a much larger factor in human behavior. They help in determining the proper direction of education, for example, but they can't be 100% applied to every individual in every situation.

While it's true that they have different physical attributes and mental capacities at different ages, it's not true that it's quantitative. You may want to remember that psychology - my particular major in college - is so much more than merely trying to link chemical reactions and brain development to particular actions. There's a track of psychological development that is purely interior to the subject that may totally contradict the physiology of the subject.

Cognitive, evolutionary, behavioral, psychoanalytic, all of them function under one basic process when dealing with adolescents: teenagers and adults have different minds and bodies and will react in different ways.

As a Pysch major? minor? casual acquaintance? have to know that adults, adolescents, preteens, infants, toddlers ALL have differing minds and bodies.

It's a little fuzzy on the numbers precisely but it is a progression.

 

[sirdanrhodes]

I hate everyone equally.

 

[McClaud]

Cognitive, evolutionary, behavioral, psychoanalytic, all of them function under one basic process when dealing with adolescents: teenagers and adults have different minds and bodies and will react in different ways.

As a Pysch major? minor? casual acquaintance? have to know that adults, adolescents, preteens, infants, toddlers ALL have differing minds and bodies.

It's a little fuzzy on the numbers precisely but it is a progression.

Well, yes, but to say that we can predict behavior of any particular individual of a certain age with precision is somewhat a fallacy.

We can predict that they may act differently according to their physiology, but in essence, we can't control or know how exactly they will act. Some development occurs internally in the mind that may contradict the basic urges and responses that the body has. So much so that they may totally ignore certain fundamental life steps and skip to the next stage.

I was just trying to correct the misconception that we can accurately predict how teenagers act or think because there are always exceptions (in fact, recently there have been a lot of exceptions) to the general rule. We have "little adults" in children as young as 10 that aren't any brighter than kids their age. We have "big kids" in adults as old as 40 that aren't any less intelligent or comprehensive than adults their age. We can't account for it except that it was learned behavior, or perhaps introspective aging, or altered perspective, etc.

 

[Delicious]

An age is merely a number, as everyone develops differently. So no, simply because I've lived through the same day on a calendar more than once does not automatically mean I've matured.

Then quite frankly, you don't understand psychology.

There are specific things that you learn as you get older. These things are tested, verifiable and most certainly age related. It's not a specific "on the 25th day of your 13th year you become capable of understanding hypothetical situations" but it is most certainly an age progression.

Psychologists like Piaget, Kohlberg and Erikson and many, many more prove this.

And we, as the human race, have only begun to understand how the brain works. That is sort of the reason psychology is still considered somewhat of a psuedo-science; we don't have enough evidence to say for certain why people act in certain ways.

And please try to articulate yourself better, I had to reread your post three times due to its awkward wording.

There are parts of the brain, ways of thinking, that are testable, watchable, and predictable in regards to adolescents and their development.

Adolescents (teenagers) are not just younger adults. There are many complex body differences (they are more hormones that affect mood, among other things) and there are many complex mind differences (they think differently about things than adults in many ways).

These are not because they are stupid or just "haven't lived life", adolescents have different minds than adults.

I'm aware that one develops as one gets older, that isn't what I was disputing. I was arguing that there is little to no difference in the mind of a 17 year old (aka a teenager) and an 18 year old (an adult), yet we as a society act like there is and will treat the two age groups with drastic differences.

And um, saying that adolescents think about things differently than adults is irrevelent because adults don't all think the same way. There is no constant, and thus you cannot test it and then call it fact. Secondly, adults are not emotional rocks as you imply; they can often be just as emotional as we hormone crazed teenagers.

 

[AlphaOmega]

I only disrespect people that react annoyed to me at work/somewhere else when its not my faulth.

 

[Antidamacus]

Well, yes, but to say that we can predict behavior of any particular individual of a certain age with precision is somewhat a fallacy.

I think my idea of precision may have been slightly over.... precise.

There are different branches to take, and there are a few destinations, but it is pretty much a linear journey.

I mean I can give you almost any psychological development and you can narrow it down to a matter of years (or even months for younger children) and there is nothing wrong with that.

We can predict that they may act differently according to their physiology, but in essence, we can't control or know how exactly they will act. Some development occurs internally in the mind that may contradict the basic urges and responses that the body has. So much so that they may totally ignore certain fundamental life steps and skip to the next stage.

Their physiology progresses at a fairly standard rate too. Their bodies and minds progress in a way that is fairly reliable to look at.

I don't want to throw out technical terms because I took Adolescent Psych a long time ago and will probably butcher them but humans grow psychologically in stages that you can watch.

It's not cut and dry like "well he's 14, he'll start wearing all black and smoking any day now". However you can watch teenagers and you can see the changes in things like authority, parents, self esteem, self image, peer pressure, friends, sex etc.

And it's due to these changes that they cannot be treated like adults. They're not the same.

I was just trying to correct the misconception that we can accurately predict how teenagers act or think because there are always exceptions (in fact, recently there have been a lot of exceptions) to the general rule. We have "little adults" in children as young as 10 that aren't any brighter than kids their age. We have "big kids" in adults as old as 40 that aren't any less intelligent or comprehensive than adults their age. We can't account for it except that it was learned behavior, or perhaps introspective aging, or altered perspective, etc.

There are things that 10 year olds (or even full grown adults) just won't get. They can be little adults and be nice to everyone, but there are major psychological functions that they just flat out won't develop for a few years.

The body, specifically the mind (and then obviously thinking), grows. These things happen in stages. Some happen early, some happen later, but to gloss over the differences and assume that adults and teens are basically the same is just disingenuous.

 

[Aries_Split]

I treat everyone with the same respect, that is to say, no respect at all until they earn it, but I try to be polite.

Regardless of whether you like someone or not, being blatantly rude to them is pathetic, and makes you lower than they are.

 

[SquirrelPants]

I'm not an ageist, per se, but I do find myself respecting fat older men less than average-weight older men, particularly when they play video games. It's like "Hey! You're giving America/Gamers/Both a bad name! Stop that!"
So I suppose I'm age-weight-ist.

 

[SquirrelPants]

Some happen early, some happen later, but to gloss over the differences and assume that adults and teens are basically the same is just disingenuous.

However true that may be, they need to set aside all the differences, both physical and psychological, and just learn to respect each other. Adults are not somehow "above" children all the time, and children aren't in any way "better". It's not so much the fact that they're different, in my opinion, it's the fact that they are treated differently.

EDIT: I meant "children/teens." =P

 

[Antidamacus]

I'm aware that one develops as one gets older, that isn't what I was disputing. I was arguing that there is little to no difference in the mind of a 17 year old (aka a teenager) and an 18 year old (an adult), yet we as a society act like there is and will treat the two age groups with drastic differences.

There is no magic switch at 18 that makes you an adult no, and I will explain it the next paragraph down there.

And um, saying that adolescents think about things differently than adults is irrevelent because adults don't all think the same way. There is no constant, and thus you cannot test it and then call it fact. Secondly, adults are not emotional rocks as you imply; they can often be just as emotional as we hormone crazed teenagers.

And not all teenagers think the same. I certainly didn't make the argument that adults and teenagers work as some kind of hive mind, collective agreement. They don't.

HOWEVER, there is a reason 18 (and sometimes 21) was picked as the age when people are considered "adults". It is certainly not because it is a round number.

Most (if not all) of the changes in body and mind in the giant process known as "becoming an adult" ends at around 18. Some people it's 16 or 17, some people it's not until their 20s.

McClaud is right, you can't see a lot of things going on inside a teenager so you can't just look and say "That one is an adult" and "That one is still a teenager". It is way more complex.

I can't treat a 16 or 17 year old as an adult and it's not because they're still developing. If I treat a 16 or 17 year old "as an adult" and they do something "as a teenager" what do you do? Obviously you treat them like a teenager, it's a process of development and you wouldn't punish them like an adult (punishment is used in a super broad term, I don't mean like jail or detention).

 

[McClaud]

Technically, you are correct in some aspects. I think the problem we are having is that you are using "adolescent" to describe all teenagers, when the term has become less defined in recent years. In fact, the APA suggests we start looking at different criteria for who is considered adolescent and who is considered adult.

I don't know what your Adolescent Psych class taught you, but in present day terms, a lot of what we used to know about the behavior of people between the ages of 15 and 25 has changed a lot in just the last two years. One is that you can't let age determine your perspective in the development of intelligence and maturity of younger adults. The other is that a lot of younger people are now skipping what we considered fundamental steps in development.

For example, a lot of children are experiencing sexual urges normally attributed to kids of 13 and older around the age of 10 now. Bodies are maturing at a faster rate, and minds are exposed to more realistic situations earlier. There is an unofficial term we're using called "accelerated rearing" going on. This caused some of them to skip the school-age child stage.

Another example on the opposite spectrum: despite some young peoples' hormonal development, there is something we now call "teenager lag." That is, their bodies are putting off turning on the hormones until much later in years, so they don't have the same sexual development as their peers. But they still grow up around their peers, and they attempt to understand the change expected of them (and some actually do understand it before they experience it by vicariously experiencing it through their peers). This allowed them to skip the typical length of the adolescent stage (since some are not experiencing their hormonal peak until 23, and losing it as early as 24 - that's ONE year of development).

We have to redefine how we look at the younger generation, since there is a lot of changes both physically and mentally going on with human populations now. A lot of outside stimuli are causing drastic changes in kids, and we have to be more aware of it and react appropriately to it. And not confuse someone who appears to be "adolescent" as a teenager and treat them that way without getting to know them first.

And respect for our younger generation is surely appropriate. As is giving them the benefit of the doubt since they may or may not have already experienced something pivotal in their lives to attribute to their mental maturity.

We still abhere to some of Erikson's developmental stages. We've largely tossed out most of Piaget's stages recently, because while they may somewhat apply to education, the later stages in HIS (crazy Swiss person!) model have become obsolete. Since modern young development has changed radically in the last 10 years with the introduction of digital technology, various chemicals in food and water, and things like early exposure.

 

[Antidamacus]

Some happen early, some happen later, but to gloss over the differences and assume that adults and teens are basically the same is just disingenuous.

However true that may be, they need to set aside all the differences, both physical and psychological, and just learn to respect each other. Adults are not somehow "above" children all the time, and children aren't in any way "better". It's not so much the fact that they're different, in my opinion, it's the fact that they are treated differently.

EDIT: I meant "children/teens." =P

To use a horrible phrase I may regret later, I respect teenagers the same way I respect a baby that poops his pants. They aren't done developing yet, I can't treat them like a fellow adult.

 

[Delicious]

I'm aware that one develops as one gets older, that isn't what I was disputing. I was arguing that there is little to no difference in the mind of a 17 year old (aka a teenager) and an 18 year old (an adult), yet we as a society act like there is and will treat the two age groups with drastic differences.

There is no magic switch at 18 that makes you an adult no, and I will explain it the next paragraph down there.

And um, saying that adolescents think about things differently than adults is irrevelent because adults don't all think the same way. There is no constant, and thus you cannot test it and then call it fact. Secondly, adults are not emotional rocks as you imply; they can often be just as emotional as we hormone crazed teenagers.

And not all teenagers think the same. I certainly didn't make the argument that adults and teenagers work as some kind of hive mind, collective agreement. They don't.

HOWEVER, there is a reason 18 (and sometimes 21) was picked as the age when people are considered "adults". It is certainly not because it is a round number.

Most (if not all) of the changes in body and mind in the giant process known as "becoming an adult" ends at around 18. Some people it's 16 or 17, some people it's not until their 20s.

McClaud is right, you can't see a lot of things going on inside a teenager so you can't just look and say "That one is an adult" and "That one is still a teenager". It is way more complex.

I can't treat a 16 or 17 year old as an adult and it's not because they're still developing. If I treat a 16 or 17 year old "as an adult" and they do something "as a teenager" what do you do? Obviously you treat them like a teenager, it's a process of development and you wouldn't punish them like an adult (punishment is used in a super broad term, I don't mean like jail or detention).

You just said that some people "become adults" at age 16 or 17, then said that you can not treat those people like adults.

Secondly, you mentioned how "it's not because they're still developing", then in your last post you said "they aren't done developing yet, I can't treat them like a fellow adult".

I'll ignore those points because your stance is not really clear on them, and I'll respond to your last bit. If a teenager makes an adult mistake in an adult way he should be punished like an adult, rather than given a free ride based on a number that we believe tells us everything about his development. Treat us like adults, and we will act like adults, as we have done in past societies (where people were considered adults at much younger ages).

 

[Antidamacus]

Technically, you are correct in some aspects. I think the problem we are having is that you are using "adolescent" to describe all teenagers, when the term has become less defined in recent years. In fact, the APA suggests we start looking at different criteria for who is considered adolescent and who is considered adult.

I don't know what your Adolescent Psych class taught you, but in present day terms, a lot of what we used to know about the behavior of people between the ages of 15 and 25 has changed a lot in just the last two years. One is that you can't let age determine your perspective in the development of intelligence and maturity of younger adults. The other is that a lot of younger people are now skipping what we considered fundamental steps in development.

For example, a lot of children are experiencing sexual urges normally attributed to kids of 13 and older around the age of 10 now. Bodies are maturing at a faster rate, and minds are exposed to more realistic situations earlier. There is an unofficial term we're using called "accelerated rearing" going on. This caused some of them to skip the school-age child stage.

Despite some young peoples' hormonal development, there is something we now call "teenager lag." That is, their bodies are putting off turning on the hormones until much later in years, so they don't have the same sexual development as their peers. But they still grow up around their peers, and they attempt to understand the change expected of them (and some actually do understand it before they experience it by vicariously experiencing it through their peers). This allowed them to skip the typical length of the adolescent stage (since some are not experiencing their hormonal peak until 23, and losing it as early as 24 - that's ONE year of development).

We have to redefine how we look at the younger generation, since there is a lot of changes both physically and mentally going on with human populations now. A lot of outside stimuli that are causing drastic changes in kids, and we have to be more aware of it and react appropriately to it. And not confuse someone who appears to be "adolescent" as a teenager and treat them that way without getting to know them first.

And respect for our younger generation is surely appropriate. As is giving them the benefit of the doubt since they may or may not have already experienced something pivotal in their lives to attribute to their mental maturity.

We still abhere to some of Erikson's developmental stages. We've largely tossed out most of Piaget's stages recently, because while they may somewhat apply to education, the later stages in his model have become obsolete. Since modern young development has changed radically in the last 10 years with the introduction of digital technology, various chemicals in food and water, and things like early exposure.

I just helped review the parts of a college level adolescent psych book and it has all of the things you just told me it shouldn't have anymore. You're the first person I've talked to who's even implied we just aren't using these anymore. I don't know who the "we" is that have learned these things "in the last 2 years" but it's no one I know. I'm not saying you're wrong, but no one has told Maryland.

But on the main points. I've never tiptoed around that it is an inexact dating process. But it seems to me you're implying that basically from the ages of 10 to 25, we have no way of knowing what is happening to these kids.

I don't want to insult you because I don't know what you're doing, but up until the present, in all my years of college courses I have never seen what you're basically proposing as a major shift in developmental psychology.

And for the record, I use the "standard" definition of adolescence (adolescent) which is the transition from childhood to adulthood.