Poll: Will the competitive side of the "shooter" genre eventually be dumbed down?

Recommended Videos

wulf3n

New member
Mar 12, 2012
1,394
0
0
GoaThief said:
Did you not read the part where I said CoD was great? :)
I did not. I'm guessing it wasn't addressed at me.

GoaThief said:
please take note of those of us that have as it seems from our perspective that you're arguing night is day and vice versa.
All I'm saying is CoD focuses on the strategic elements of the shooter as opposed to the fine motor skills. Which is why I find it ironic to say it's been "dumbed down"

I don't see why you're getting so defensive. I made no attack on those that competitively play other shooters or imply that other shooters are any less/any more competitive than CoD.

What I was implying is that people that complain about CoD not being competitive are usually the players that suck because they don't have any situational awareness and get upset because they can't compensate with other skills like they can in other shooters.

But anyone that is truly good at games like Quake and CS will be good at CoD and won't have that problem.
 

Ticklefist

New member
Jul 19, 2010
486
0
0
I don't think real actual competitive games have much to worry about. They're still successful doing the same things after the big console shooter boom that they were before. Consoles games aren't even part of the equation for a lot of us. I'm inclined to go all PC Master Race and suggest that nobody truly interested in competitive gaming is willing to do it with a gamepad.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
wulf3n said:
GoaThief said:
Did you not read the part where I said CoD was great? :)
I did not. I'm guessing it wasn't addressed at me.

GoaThief said:
please take note of those of us that have as it seems from our perspective that you're arguing night is day and vice versa.
All I'm saying is CoD focuses on the strategic elements of the shooter as opposed to the fine motor skills. Which is why I find it ironic to say it's been "dumbed down"

I don't see why you're getting so defensive. I made no attack on those that competitively play other shooters or imply that other shooters are any less/any more competitive than CoD.

What I was implying is that people that complain about CoD not being competitive are usually the players that suck because they don't have any situational awareness and get upset because they can't compensate with other skills like they can in other shooters.

But anyone that is truly good at games like Quake and CS will be good at CoD and won't have that problem.
Yes, refinement is not dumbed down. Dumbed down is if it aims for you and tells you when to pull the trigger. Heck, even then everyone would still be on the same playing field and it's just make excelling at it all the harder.
 

Ticklefist

New member
Jul 19, 2010
486
0
0
The most competitive shooters out there require little more than awareness of surroundings, character placement, character movement, skilled aiming, and solid improvisational skills. I don't think a game can take those elements away from the player and still be successful.

What I should have said instead of going all "consoles games arent' competitive derp" a minute ago.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
ticklefist said:
I don't think real actual competitive games have much to worry about. They're still successful doing the same things after the big console shooter boom that they were before. Consoles games aren't even part of the equation for a lot of us. I'm inclined to go all PC Master Race and suggest that nobody truly interested in competitive gaming is willing to do it with a gamepad.
As long as everyone playing along also has the gamepad, then sure. But I'd consider the mouse to be a true advantage and it would be unfair if even one player had a mouse when others had a controller.

If everyone has the same input then it doesn't much matter if it's a mouse or a controller.
 

GoaThief

Reinventing the Spiel
Feb 2, 2012
1,229
0
0
wulf3n said:
I don't see why you're getting so defensive. I made no attack on those that competitively play other shooters or imply that other shooters are any less/any more competitive than CoD.
I'm not being defensive at all, just having a regular discussion as you would down the pub after a few ales. Try imaging me saying it in a jovial voice with a smile? Sorry if I'm not communicating that very well, I'm typing from a mobile and thus tend to be quite concise instead of fluffing it out with loads of flowery goodness. :p
 

laggyteabag

Scrolling through forums, instead of playing games
Legacy
Oct 25, 2009
3,447
1,181
118
UK
Gender
He/Him
Doubt it. As soon as a genre gets easier, or a particular genre or sub-genre is no longer as popular as it used to be, there is always that little niche audience looking for a new game based around that particular genre/ sub-genre. One example would be arena based FPS games, very little games based around this sub-genre are made right now and there is still quite a large audience for these games which is where games such as Red Eclipse or Shootmania Storm come in to try and capture that little niche audience, or (more ambitiously) make the sub-genre successful and more popular again.

All in all, whilst some games may be "dumbed down" to "widen the target audience", there will always be games that will try to capture the golden days of that genre.
 

Eacaraxe_v1legacy

New member
Mar 28, 2010
1,028
0
0
First, complexity is not synonymous with depth.

That said, I actually believe the converse is what is occurring: competitive play is leading games which have competitive aspects to become simpler and more constrained in the level of creativity and adaptiveness needed to win. I'm reminded at this point of Halo's "competitive" play, which in my opinion was one of the most dissonant, contradictory, and outright dickish competitive scenes thus far, and conversations I've had in the past with members of that community.

One of the first things that happened in Halo 3's competitive play, was to use Forge to remove physics objects from maps. The perennial answer was that they were removed to eliminate "cheap", "lucky", and/or "no skill" kills that would allow a lesser-skilled opponent to prevail over a higher-skilled one. I played Halo 3 as much as anyone else, easily enough to know "lucky" kills with physics objects were an infinitesimally-small, inconsequential, number of total kills, and to do it consistently -- let alone consistently enough to sway the outcome of a match -- took a lot of practice, creativity, and improvisational skills -- and were easily enough avoided by a player with a modicum of situational awareness. Not only that, but you also had the underlying assumption kills with physics objects cannot ever be performed intentionally, one would only assume to be because the pro players couldn't do it, and if the pro players couldn't then it must be a fluke when and if it does happen.

Forget lessons like "don't stand near explosive barrels", which in my experience was the overwhelming source of these "cheap, no-skill" kills about which "pro" gamers complained so heavily -- if you made that glaring a mistake, you deserve to be punished for it.

And, even if that's the case, then why were the power weapons allowed in competitive matches, and why were tactics like reload canceling not prohibited? The answer is, in my opinion, simple enough to deduce -- competitive gaming uses a strict, narrow, and arbitrary construction of "skill" that in many cases is aggressively exclusionary to higher-order thinking. Does something exist creative players can exploit, that requires adaptation and creativity to counter? ban it. Is it unorthodox and difficult to learn, regardless how effective? ban it. Is a character, map, or weapon unconventional that requires thinking outside the box to play or counter? straight down to the bottom tier, and/or banned.

That's not to say some components are so unorthodox, or overpowered, to render any sort of fair, baseline play impossible -- merely that "competitive" communities are so fervent to defend their definition of "skill" they will exclude or ostracize things that challenge it.

So, when developers see "competitive" communities manipulating the games' "rules" to suit their needs, they mistake this as a desire by the game-playing community as a whole for a simpler and more constrained game, and design to those specifications.
 

Areloch

It's that one guy
Dec 10, 2012
623
0
0
Honestly, if I had to pick a single area where you could fairly definitively call CoD "dumbed down" it'd be some of the higher-tier killstreaks as of MW2 onward.

Lets give players a weapon that flies high above the map, meaning only players that happen to have a specific loadout with a rocket launcher can fight back, and give the weapon rapid fire, high explosive shells that do crazy splash damage, making it hard to miss.


...then we highlight everyone so you don't even really need to look.

If that's not starting to brush into the 'dumbed down' territory, then we have some...unique definitions happening.

Is CoD's core gameplay pretty strategic in a meta sense? Sure. But once you start getting into weapons where you'd be hard pressed to discern them from a wallhack, I start questioning.