I have a curious question. For the more physically demanding roles you are absolutely going to see massive male dominance even if women are allowed into the role, that's just how things will play out. Regarding stuff like sleeping quarters, bathrooms/toilets, etc - if the minority of women make it difficult for the majority of men to get their stuff done due to lacking the facilities (and having to use the male ones), or for whatever reason, do people believe that it's worth building dedicated facilities wherever that minority of women is posted?
I don't know how all this works to be honest, all I know is that different genders have slightly different needs...primarily separation.
Machine Man 1992 said:
This article right here -->http://judgybitch.com/tag/women-shouldnt-be-in-combat/
In it, a female gender rights advocate argue that there is a cultural value in having certain spaces reserved for only men, just as there are space only for women. She compares soldiering to child birth; both face down certain death doing something that is often painful and unpleasant, and we praise and commemorate them for their sacrifices.
That's a pretty awful article considering how much profanity it contains. Whoever wrote that is very much a firm believer in traditional gender roles and all that stuff has been on it's way out over the last few decades.
There is no such thing as "roles for men". This is about giving freedom to do what people dream/aspire to do. If a woman wants to go and get herself killed in battle for her country, AND she can pass the same tests that has been set for the men, there is absolutely no reason why she shouldn't be allowed to.
Look at it this way - if you feel strongly about women being denied a position in combat, you will already have your way (in some aspects). In the more physically demanding roles, you will
automatically see massive male dominance even if women are allowed to enter. It's guaranteed to be that way. For e.g. becoming a US Marine, the brutal physical tests will easily be the primary barrier for the overwhelming majority of women who apply, whoever manage to get through will find themselves utterly outnumbered by males (I'm talking at least 50:1 ratios).
Whatever few women who make it will be nothing other than
incredibly exceptional and rare women - not only physically, but also mentally because the mental pressure of having to compete against a huge force of determined men as a woman will also be pretty damn exhausting, enough to make some give up.
Some women have even pushed through for a few years before finally saying "fuck it, I can't continue like this" and retiring to support roles or leaving altogether.
One such example: http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-equal?page=7
Capt. Katie Petronio could be considered nothing short of an exceptional woman, she wrote this (negative stuff bolded):
I was a motivated, resilient second lieutenant when I deployed to Iraq for 10 months, traveling across the Marine area of operations (AO) and participating in numerous combat operations. Yet, due to the excessive amount of time I spent in full combat load, I was diagnosed with a severe case of restless leg syndrome. My spine had compressed on nerves in my lower back causing neuropathy which compounded the symptoms of restless leg syndrome. While this injury has certainly not been enjoyable, Iraq was a pleasant experience compared to the experiences I endured during my deployment to Afghanistan. At the beginning of my tour in Helmand Province, I was physically capable of conducting combat operations for weeks at a time, remaining in my gear for days if necessary and averaging 16-hour days of engineering operations in the heart of Sangin, one of the most kinetic and challenging AOs in the country. There were numerous occasions where I was sent to a grid coordinate and told to build a PB from the ground up, serving not only as the mission commander but also the base commander until the occupants (infantry units) arrived 5 days later. In most of these situations, I had a sergeant as my assistant commander, and the remainder of my platoon consisted of young, motivated NCOs. I was the senior Marine making the final decisions on construction concerns, along with 24-hour base defense and leading 30 Marines at any given time. The physical strain of enduring combat operations and the stress of being responsible for the lives and well-being of such a young group in an extremely kinetic environment were compounded by lack of sleep, which ultimately took a physical toll on my body that I couldn?t have foreseen.
By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change. My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions. At the end of the 7-month deployment, and the construction of 18 PBs later, I had lost 17 pounds and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome (which personally resulted in infertility, but is not a genetic trend in my family), which was brought on by the chemical and physical changes endured during deployment. Regardless of my deteriorating physical stature, I was extremely successful during both of my combat tours, serving beside my infantry brethren and gaining the respect of every unit I supported. Regardless, I can say with 100 percent assurance that despite my accomplishments, there is no way I could endure the physical demands of the infantrymen whom I worked beside as their combat load and constant deployment cycle would leave me facing medical separation long before the option of retirement. I understand that everyone is affected differently; however, I am confident that should the Marine Corps attempt to fully integrate women into the infantry, we as an institution are going to experience a colossal increase in crippling and career-ending medical conditions for females.
There is a drastic shortage of historical data on female attrition or medical ailments of women who have executed sustained combat operations. This said, we need only to review the statistics from our entry-level schools to realize that there is a significant difference in the physical longevity between male and female Marines. At OCS the attrition rate for female candidates in 2011 was historically low at 40 percent, while the male candidates attrite at a much lower rate of 16 percent. Of candidates who were dropped from training because they were injured or not physically qualified, females were breaking at a much higher rate than males, 14 percent versus 4 percent. The same trends were seen at TBS in 2011; the attrition rate for females was 13 percent versus 5 percent for males, and 5 percent of females were found not physically qualified compared with 1 percent of males. Further, both of these training venues have physical fitness standards that are easier for females; at IOC there is one standard regardless of gender. The attrition rate for males attending IOC in 2011 was 17 percent. Should female Marines ultimately attend IOC, we can expect significantly higher attrition rates and long-term injuries for women.
A lot of people who are actively fighting/campaigning for women to have full access to combat/physical-heavy roles are unfamiliar with the real conditions/outcomes of being a soldier, most of them will be sitting on their keyboard imagining heroic women comfortably keeping up with their male peers in all aspects of battle. Instead of just telling those people "no", they need to be SHOWN more such examples of what kind of toll combat takes on the human body and why it's so much more of a risk for females to take.
But still, that should never stop females from being allowed into combat if they pass the same tests as males - again, it should be their CHOICE. That's what this is about.
