Poll: World War 1 and 2 - who did more for the French?

[historybuff]

Thats just typical America. They think they did everything to win the war but they actually did fuck all.

I do hope you're joking at that comment.

On topic, first, you're watching the Simpsons, which is a comedy.

Secondly, America certainly did do quite a bit in Europe. In fact, the focus was on Europe first because Germany was the strongest of the Axis powers and considered the most dangerous. One Germany surrendered, America went all out to the Pacific. England's navy took care of the Atlantic and America's navy took on the Pacific. America's force was big enough to have fighting on both fronts. We just gave priority to the European front until Germany surrendered--then, it was out to some of the worst fighting conditions of the whole war in the Pacific. (Along with Australians and New Zealanders, who came and hung out with us down there.)

I don't understand why people from Allied countries would ever slam each other at all. That's ridiculous. We were on the same damn side. Does no one remember that "Special Relationship" business between England and America?

England held out alone (with its Commonwealth), nobly against the Germans. They were very admirable, brave and worth every bit of credit owed to them. However, it's not as though America just came by and twiddled their thumbs and did nothing.

Americans entered Paris to back the Free French resistance in August of 1944. Americans helped them liberate the city. That is likely what they're referring to.

They are certainly not saying that Americans did all the work in WWII and we're certainly not diminishing the role of England.

I should think that would be obvious.

 

[Spitfire175]

WW1 = The Commonwealth
WW2 = UK

Quite right.

 

[titanium turtle]

we had to fend off the Germans- basically on our own on 2 occasions- the french pussied out both times and came for our help-we helped them whilst America took all the glory

 

[Conveant0]

What nonsense is this? Deciding that one single nation helped out more than another, when all sides recieve casulties, is simply arrogant. Who contributes most to the parts on the A380? It's developed in 4 countries, all supplying parts and components that neither of the others could contribute to such a quality. Naming one is out of the question, because no tangible difference can be made.

The same could be said here, without the UK's location, across the channel, it's well trained troops and a steadfast approach to not giving up (Something I'm sad to say has all but vanished), not to mention the RAF's victories over the Luftewaffe and the naval powers it posessed in those times, then Britain would not have either lasted long or been in any state to extend help from whatever crippled ruin it may of become.

Then the US of A, though 'late' to the war, had been assisting Britain through trade supplies to Britain in the Atlantic which sustained Britain to the point above starvation, had been able to supply large amounts of troops as well to ASSIST in the D-Day landings and subsiquent battles. Simply put, Americans did supply large amounts of troops, but however would of been screwed fighting the battle on two fronts alone.

Plus the Canadians, Australians, Russian and African states whom I know not enough about to write with any real back up.

The sad part is this:

we had to fend off the Germans- basically on our own on 2 occasions- the french pussied out both times and came for our help-we helped them whilst America took all the glory

No, we didn't fight alone, I'm sure the death count for Americans, Canadians, Russians and other countries involved should be a marker for that. Without help from the yanks we would of starved well before our time and you'd be writing on this site in German. The fact you're denying others of some glory and removing them altogether shows the same lack of respect you accuse the Americans of. No they fucking aren't, it's fairly fucking obvious they are not. Need proof? Look at your nearest Cenotaph.

 

[Zamn]

The country that did most to help France in the Second World War is clearly Russia. The Red Army was responsible for 80% of German casualities in the war. Without Russia, France would never have been liberated.

 

[Private Custard]

America Did everything ever, we killed the nazis as the french and the English were shitting there pants
the candians helped alot though
America Is so fuckin awsome that we were able to kick ass on 2 fronts
Were so awsome that other countries complain about us out of no where


scene in a london pub
Hi john
Hey dave
I hate america John
Thats nice dave

There might have been a bigger force of english in europe, but the americans kicked more ass

And here is a tip for you brits and such, Americans don't really care about vietnam, so when you go WELL YOU LOST VEITNAM we don't care cause you lost war of 1812, revolutionary war, And some other wars in the medieval period

AMERICA FUCK YEA
CAUSE FREEDOM IS THE ONLY WAY YEA

Arrogant, loud, misinformed, jingoistic and shouty Americans............giving the world a reason to hate your whole country since, well, forever. The best thing people like you could possibly do for your country is shut up and let the reasonable ones be heard.

 

[GOATOFRAGE]

Dunkirk and such

 

[Jark212]

Alright I'm going to be a heathen and vote for the US on this one. It was very close overall, but unless I am terribly mistaken about the timing for WWI by the time the first US expeditionary force arrived things were still locked in a stalemate on the western front. While they might have done less fighting than the other allied nations it proved to be a good morale boost for the Allies, and the prospect of having millions (2,810,000 draftees were in training, but not necessarily deployed by the Armistice) of fresh and eager soldiers to bolster the enemy ranks was a major psychological blow to the Germans. Then there was also the extra manufacturing of supplies that the US brought to the overall industrial power of the allies. The US was far more marginal on this one, so the UK probably did more in then end.

In terms of WWII I think we did a bit more to actually aid the French. Yes there were a lot of UK, Australian, and Canadian forces on D-Day, but it would not have been possible without the resources and manpower supplied by the US (on the other hand maybe Hitler did more on D-day by holding the reins of the Panzer divisions and spectacularly screwing that up). More likely is that if the US hadn't gotten in on the deal then the UK would have just sat on their island for the most part until the Russian finished the job for them. Also to throw in my two cents about the entire Russians winning the WWII single singlehandedly part: the Germans had a vast amount of their military in the East (2/3 is the agreed upon figure here I believe) they still poured a monumental amount of resources into the Western front that more likely than not would have tipped the balance in the eastern front, and the supplies that the US sent aided the Russians a bit as well. While the US may not have been doing a majority of the fighting we provided the distraction and the supplies that allowed the Allies to win the second world war. Now I'm going to go hide in my flame bunker and let the debate continue.

Bingo, I doubt the Allies would have won WWI & WWII without millions of tones of US supply's.

As for WWII, US war supply's(AIRCRAFT, fuel, medical, ammunition...) saved the U.K. from a German invasion. Not to mention the US Army/National Guard took the brunt of the casualties at Normandy.

I'm going to hide now...

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Wasn't it largely American forces that liberated France? And didn't most of Europe not become liberated until the American forces intervened?

60% of forces were Commonwealth. Another interesting note is that American formations suffered a 20% higher casualty rate in Normandy, despite fighting fewer German formations, and even fewer quality ones (most of the Panzer Divisions were concentrated around the British sector, at Caen).

most of the American's were green coming into the fight, and Patton was very pissed off at Monty sitting outside of Caen while the rest of the troops were pushing forward.

and let us not forget that without the aid of Americans and the lend-lease program, the UK would have been in some deep shit.


I feel that the Americans DO deserve a lot of the credit because we gave the extra manpower as well as the industrial might to push the Germans back.

and if I wanted to point out something of British failure in war. Operation Market Garden.

1. I wish to point out that Monty was 'sitting' outside of Caen because Rommel had pulled most of his Panzer divisions around it, and most of his SS infantry divisions inside it. This is another American misconception about the war (as is addressed by Carlo D'Estes exemplery work: Decision In Normandy) that somehow the British spent most of their time lounging about. In fact, British forces were tasked with the far more arduous task of taking a large, incredibly well-fortified city and the surrounding bocage from an enemy who had had plenty of time to build defences, lay mines and hole up in the rubble. In short, Patton's continual irritation with Montgomery inevitably stemmed from the fact he, that is Patton, disliked Monty, and could not understand why Montgommery would always be so slow in comparison to him, disregarding the fact that Montgommery invariably faced the more resilient German formations throughout the course of the war simply due to the fact that the Commonwealth landed north of the Americans.

Secondly, Market Garden was a failure merely because of bad intel. Nothing more, nothing less.

aye, bad BRITISH intel, and the lack of cohesion between British armor and paratroopers, also, it was due to the fact that the British armor was too slow to get up the route.

They had to halt all progress on the front to funnel fuel and other materials to market garden, if they had given that much support to Patton, they would have pierced the German lines which would have most likely shortened the war and cause the German lines to fold.


I guess we shall never know.

Yes, because having Patton do it would have magically made the Jagdpanthers and 75mm guns dissappear from the road to Arnhem, and if it had been American intel, the SS would have never dared move their divisions to around Arnhem....

And even if Patton had penetrated the German lines - what would he have done? There was nothing in the South of Germany - no industry, no major resources, nothing but a few nice mountains, rivers, forests and farmland. That, is why the more senior commander was assigned to the northern sector, because the only way to win the war was to take the German industrial homeland.

 

[l33tabix]

Last night I was watching an episode of the Simpsons, and during the episode a Frenchman mentions that the Americans saved the French twice from the Germans in the World Wars. This annoyed me slightly, since the main forces in Europe for the Allies were, on both occasions, British. As a proud Englishman I took offence that the USA seems to think it did more for the French in the wars than the British against the Axis forces. Especially since the US troops in those wars were more involved in fighting on a completely different front against the Japanese. So, I ask you, fellow Escapists. Who do you think were more involved in the liberation of France from the Germans? The USA? The UK? Or perhaps a different country altogether. Please post your thoughts here so we can decide now who truly deserves the credit for WW1 and WW2.

It was a joke in which they were mocking themselves, looking at the overall ignorance of their pathetic country
The Brits did everything.
If you left it at "who did more" i'd say the Germans, they fucked everyones shit right up, 6m Jews not to mention 31m russians.

 

[titanium turtle]

What nonsense is this? Deciding that one single nation helped out more than another, when all sides recieve casulties, is simply arrogant. Who contributes most to the parts on the A380? It's developed in 4 countries, all supplying parts and components that neither of the others could contribute to such a quality. Naming one is out of the question, because no tangible difference can be made.

The same could be said here, without the UK's location, across the channel, it's well trained troops and a steadfast approach to not giving up (Something I'm sad to say has all but vanished), not to mention the RAF's victories over the Luftewaffe and the naval powers it posessed in those times, then Britain would not have either lasted long or been in any state to extend help from whatever crippled ruin it may of become.

Then the US of A, though 'late' to the war, had been assisting Britain through trade supplies to Britain in the Atlantic which sustained Britain to the point above starvation, had been able to supply large amounts of troops as well to ASSIST in the D-Day landings and subsiquent battles. Simply put, Americans did supply large amounts of troops, but however would of been screwed fighting the battle on two fronts alone.

Plus the Canadians, Australians, Russian and African states whom I know not enough about to write with any real back up.

The sad part is this:

we had to fend off the Germans- basically on our own on 2 occasions- the french pussied out both times and came for our help-we helped them whilst America took all the glory

No, we didn't fight alone, I'm sure the death count for Americans, Canadians, Russians and other countries involved should be a marker for that. Without help from the yanks we would of starved well before our time and you'd be writing on this site in German. The fact you're denying others of some glory and removing them altogether shows the same lack of respect you accuse the Americans of. No they fucking aren't, it's fairly fucking obvious they are not. Need proof? Look at your nearest Cenotaph.

ok- sorry- I know that without other countries help that we would have lost but Britain played a larger part in ww1 without any doubt- America did not really get involved until the very end, in ww2 it was the British that had to fight the Germans in the main case when France fell- America was mainly fighting Japan at that time- also Britain suffered far more from the Germans than Ameica did- our cities were bombed all the time

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Without the U.S during world war 2 the french would likely be speaking russian.

Russia could have steamrolled just the British alone, but when the U.S entered russia was forced to back down.

 

[sam13lfc]

Britain did more in WW1 I think but USA put a LOT of manpower into it in WW2. My history isn't that good so if I'm missing something the Americans did in WW1 that was massive please tell me.

 

[titanium turtle]

America Did everything ever, we killed the nazis as the french and the English were shitting there pants
the candians helped alot though
America Is so fuckin awsome that we were able to kick ass on 2 fronts
Were so awsome that other countries complain about us out of no where


scene in a london pub
Hi john
Hey dave
I hate america John
Thats nice dave

There might have been a bigger force of english in europe, but the americans kicked more ass

And here is a tip for you brits and such, Americans don't really care about vietnam, so when you go WELL YOU LOST VEITNAM we don't care cause you lost war of 1812, revolutionary war, And some other wars in the medieval period

AMERICA FUCK YEA
CAUSE FREEDOM IS THE ONLY WAY YEA

are you fucking serious

if you aren't
- ha ha- you know effective sarcasm and self parody, that was quite funny- team America is a great film

also I'm glad that was sarcasm
if only you could do proper typed sarcasm

 

[Private Custard]

America Did everything ever, we killed the nazis as the french and the English were shitting there pants
the candians helped alot though
America Is so fuckin awsome that we were able to kick ass on 2 fronts
Were so awsome that other countries complain about us out of no where


scene in a london pub
Hi john
Hey dave
I hate america John
Thats nice dave

There might have been a bigger force of english in europe, but the americans kicked more ass

And here is a tip for you brits and such, Americans don't really care about vietnam, so when you go WELL YOU LOST VEITNAM we don't care cause you lost war of 1812, revolutionary war, And some other wars in the medieval period

AMERICA FUCK YEA
CAUSE FREEDOM IS THE ONLY WAY YEA

are you fucking serious

if you aren't
- ha ha- you know effective sarcasm and self parody, that was quite funny- team America is a great film



if not-
fuck you- people like you are the reason everyone hates America- taking credit for everything-we complain about America because they show up at the last bit and finish off a heavily weakened country and take all the glory like you are- I'm not being racist to America I'm just saying that people like you are dicks.

Britain did play perhaps a majority part in helping America both times but we could have not won the war without the help of other countries

also we kicked ass in the medieval times too- you wouldn't exist without Britain

now go shove the American flag up your ignorant ass

also- you're army shoots their own fucking people- even in ww2 they were, our army is better trained

also YOU ELECTED BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
deny that asshole

The above quote marks are wrong. I did not say this........please edit your post, I don't want people thinking I'm an arrogant, jingoistic American ****.

cheers )

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Now, I'm going to ask everyone to calm down and stop flaming, because the fact remains that all the allied powers, including Russia, Norway and France, were all kinds of awesome, and there is nothing any amount of trolling can do to change that.

 

[Conveant0]

ok- sorry- I know that without other countries help that we would have lost but Britain played a larger part in ww1 without any doubt- America did not really get involved until the very end, in ww2 it was the British that had to fight the Germans in the main case when France fell- America was mainly fighting Japan at that time- also Britain suffered far more from the Germans than Ameica did- our cities were bombed all the time

We were in from the begining, true, but removing credit where it is due shows your own ignorance of the actions taken by Americans from April 1917 onwards. In WWI I won't deny we played out most of the war and had both held and advanced the line on our own devices with French resistance aid against Germany Austria and Turkey, though the war could and probably would of continued until a lot later November 11th 1918 without the influx of fresh troops from a country which has both the time and money to prepare.
World War I was the British dominated war, we had beaten back 3 countries almost single handedly, accepting a little late help doesn't remove any of the honour your obviously trying to defend.
World War II, this will be the Jenga of wars, without a single nation on the Allies side, things would of toppled and we would probably writting this inbetween hailing our glorious Fuhrer. Bombings though? Yeah, we did of course, and so we returned the good favour by performing large amounts of factory and production bombings and had still won the Blitz.
America had actually been hit before entering into the war offically, through the loss of Rueben James, a destroyer which had been decided to escort a convoy over the Atlantic (One of the convoys mind). America had sent a large portion of it's armed forces, and had infact focused on Europe first from 1941/1942, whilst they attempted to rebuild the shattered remains of their Naval forces.

The fact you are attempting to reassure yourself over a matter that cost lives on both sides, and both had attempted and succeded in victory, just so you can think you've lost no pride is fucking ridiculos though. Without the British, the Americans would of simply lost Europe and would be then allied with no one. The Russians would of been destroyed, with the European Axis powers not fighting two fronts and now concentrating on Moscow, the result would leave Switzerland... see where this is going (Berlin fire Brigade and all)?

The US would then be forced to divide it's naval forces for both Atlantic and Pacific defence, as European Axis could attack from one front and Japan from the other. Even when America was focusing on Japan with it's carriers and escorts, it was increadibly close to a losing scenario, right down to a single damaged carrier (USS Enterprise infact) after the lose of it's companion ship the Hornet. Dividing forces would be impossible, and America would of simply been overwhelmed within months, leaving little time for any nuclear deterant to come into place.

Same for Britain, without American assurence and Lend-Lease act, we WOULD of been screwed. Then.. see above. If you're still going to defend your void comment, then know that you have chosen to disregard all the lives of an ALLYING side, because you're insecure of your own home team (And mine as well infact).

 

[Trivun]

Right, I haven't kept as close an eye on the thread as I should have, but can I just say I don't want this to become a flame war. If you have something to say then say it, but please don't flame other users or countries, otherwise you will be reported. If any mods feel the need to lock this thread if it becomes a flame war, then by all means go ahead. This is meant to be a serious discussion, not an argument, so please keep the flaming down. You know who you are.