Fetch quests. All other padding while annoying, they're just mild irritants compared to the ungodly hatred I feel toward fetch quests. Wind Waker should have had a place in my heart as an all time classic, but having to find those goddamn charts and then pay that freak Tinkle to translate them, so I could then go fetch the actual triforce pieces in very deliberate spots in the world, that burned deep.
Poll: Worst game-lengthening scheme.
- Thread starter Aircross
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Forcing us to endlessly repeat the same 5-10 minutes of gameplay because that's when the last checkpoint before the boss/sudden spike in difficulty was.
One thing annoys me... The-fashionably-late-to-the-party tactic. Oh, there was a major villian I could have killed here five minutes ago? Doh, welp.
Unskippable cutscenes aren't really like the other three options in the poll; they're usually a result of a slight (at least) lack of planning from the developers, and are really only a problem in specific cases (the aformentioned "long cutscene before a boss fight" example, or when a game has long cutscenes in general). My point is that while they may artificially lenghten the game experience, I sincerely doubt that developers make unskippable cutscenes to intentionnally make it longer (rather, it seems as though it'd be more of a case of not implementing a scene skip features).
The other three, on the other hand, are presented as game content but are felt by the player as an artificial gameplay load that cheapens the experience. As for myself, I'd say it's a tie between backtracking and a billion fetch quests. The popular Wind Waker example of the charts and tingle actually never bothered me all *that* much, since they made you do a variety of things and explore parts of the map you might not have seen yet, but it definitely could have been paced better (introducing the charts earlier, encouraging the player to look for them in between dungeons so most players don't find themselves doing it all at once, etc.)As for the ruppies, I got the money upgrades early, so I didn't have any problems. I realise there are few who were as lucky, though...
I actually can't think of a bad offender for these categories right now, though I know I've played some. I usually keep the better experiences in my memory
The other three, on the other hand, are presented as game content but are felt by the player as an artificial gameplay load that cheapens the experience. As for myself, I'd say it's a tie between backtracking and a billion fetch quests. The popular Wind Waker example of the charts and tingle actually never bothered me all *that* much, since they made you do a variety of things and explore parts of the map you might not have seen yet, but it definitely could have been paced better (introducing the charts earlier, encouraging the player to look for them in between dungeons so most players don't find themselves doing it all at once, etc.)As for the ruppies, I got the money upgrades early, so I didn't have any problems. I realise there are few who were as lucky, though...
I actually can't think of a bad offender for these categories right now, though I know I've played some. I usually keep the better experiences in my memory
A few games do something really annoying where they make it look like you've almost finished... then they spring some bullshit plot twist on you and you have to redo a whole chunk of the game.
Like Red Faction: Guerrila. Or however it's spelt.
Like Red Faction: Guerrila. Or however it's spelt.
I know you didn't say anything about godlike powers at the start of a game. I was just using them as examples of what no pacing in a game gives you. A game that paces itself properly gives you access to more powerful abilities after you complete a sufficient challenge. Characters giving you a fetch quest is simply a primitive form of this aspect of gameplay. The reason Mass Effect doesn't put you through this 'do something for me first nonsense' is because your character is already in a position of power at the start of the game. Let's say that Shepherd is only a lowly Corporal at the start of the game: Do you think Liara is going to bend to your requests for her to follow you from the get-go? No, of course she isn't. Proper pacing comes hand-in-hand with proper storytelling. Let's take in another example: In Oblivion to get further up the ranks in the Thieve's Guild, you need to steal more things and sell them off to fences throughout Cyrodiil. That way, you get trusted more and more by the higher-ranks in the guild. This is essentially, an unspoken fetch-quest, but it is necessary to both gameplay and the storyline, as no intelligent member of the Guild is going to trust an initiate with hauling back a famous statue.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
All four of these make me want to tear my hair out. If I had to pick the WORST one though, it would be a tie between backtracking and grinding. One can be more tolerable than the other depending on the situation. For example, if the backtracking has effing mazes and ridiculous encounter rates then grinding is more tolerable. Actually no wait. I think I just made it clear for myself. Backtracking is the worst one. I can still deal with grinding. (Especially if it has good music.)
Challenge maps and collectibles. I'm thinking mostly of Arkham Asylum and City, where finishing the actual game doesn't really count for anything, because there's still some sort of thing you have to get before you can say you're really done with the game.
I know it's an optional thing, and I don't usually go for them, but it just irks me when you've beaten the game and it tells you you're less than halfway towards completion. It almost feels like the developers are disappointed in me for not doing what they want me to do.
I know it's an optional thing, and I don't usually go for them, but it just irks me when you've beaten the game and it tells you you're less than halfway towards completion. It almost feels like the developers are disappointed in me for not doing what they want me to do.
They're all annoying, but backtracking is probably the worst for me. "Now you must go back to the place miles away that you only just returned from to do something else. No you couldn't have done that while you're there. Because I said so, that's why! What are you doing with that sword?"
Have you ever heard of Brutal Legend? That game induces collectable seizures.Electric Alpaca said:
OT: Forced grinding.
That's why I stopped playing Final Fantasy XIII. That game's linearity and grinding made it unbearable.
a poorly done boss fight gauntlet where they but boss (no save point or heath restore) boss fight (no save point or heath restore)and then one more boss fight and they keep repeating this. if it is done well it is fun like the last fights in cave story + ,but if it done bad it will just take hours.
Other:
Missions that don't do anything. The Sonic series mostly does this, and they just take the same level and change it slightly so it has a different goal. And you beat it and get... Nothing!(or at least you have to do all of them to get the one thing it unlocks)
Kinda like a fetch quest, but you don't do very much Fetching, you just do a boring optional thing for nothing. They can be done right, but most of the time they weren't.
Missions that don't do anything. The Sonic series mostly does this, and they just take the same level and change it slightly so it has a different goal. And you beat it and get... Nothing!(or at least you have to do all of them to get the one thing it unlocks)
Kinda like a fetch quest, but you don't do very much Fetching, you just do a boring optional thing for nothing. They can be done right, but most of the time they weren't.
Backtracking. Now there's nothing wrong with having to revisit areas. It's when the travel time can't be cut short in some way that's just blatant padding. For example, WoW, though a massive persistent world, has a lot of ways to travel fast, and while you have to be a certain level to get some of them that only really comes into play when you reach a level where they become necessary. And in some cases travel time is used as loading, in which case it's barely justifiable.
At any other time, it is padding. That doesn't necessarily make it bad. Sometimes it's actually a design decision, as in Metroid games where it's used to enforce the feeling of loneliness. But too often, the game could be made so much better--and incidentally have playing time cut to about a third--with a fucking map you can blink around with once you've explored all areas.
At any other time, it is padding. That doesn't necessarily make it bad. Sometimes it's actually a design decision, as in Metroid games where it's used to enforce the feeling of loneliness. But too often, the game could be made so much better--and incidentally have playing time cut to about a third--with a fucking map you can blink around with once you've explored all areas.
For me it's backtracking.
Worst offender here is coincidentally my favourite game ever: Gothic. An action RPG from 2001, sadly little known.
You start on your supposedly last quest to kill the evil and it's essentially a long, boring dungeon crawl that is so the opposite of what made the first 100 hours of the game great for me. And then you come to a door and you're being told that you're missing something.
So you have to go back, play a couple of hours in the beautiful open world again, just to remind you how boring the dungeon crawl was, and then go back in. And of course, the dungeon has been refilled again.
Worst offender here is coincidentally my favourite game ever: Gothic. An action RPG from 2001, sadly little known.
You start on your supposedly last quest to kill the evil and it's essentially a long, boring dungeon crawl that is so the opposite of what made the first 100 hours of the game great for me. And then you come to a door and you're being told that you're missing something.
So you have to go back, play a couple of hours in the beautiful open world again, just to remind you how boring the dungeon crawl was, and then go back in. And of course, the dungeon has been refilled again.
I Find grinding to be the worst.
really I can't stand it.. Kill x monsters to level y times to actually be able to kill monster z
It just in my opinion sucks..
Against this though I don't like how in Oblivion, dragon age etc where the monsters level with you either.
I personally prefer just having some creatures level with you and also seeing lower leveled mobs with mobs that are also a similar level to you..
Thats just me though... Maybe thats why I don't like MMO's very much
really I can't stand it.. Kill x monsters to level y times to actually be able to kill monster z
It just in my opinion sucks..
Against this though I don't like how in Oblivion, dragon age etc where the monsters level with you either.
I personally prefer just having some creatures level with you and also seeing lower leveled mobs with mobs that are also a similar level to you..
Thats just me though... Maybe thats why I don't like MMO's very much
Hmm, which one does Skyward Sword fit into? I guess it fits into backtracking and fetch quests. Both are pet peeves of mine, though in my favourite genre (3D platformers, though platformers in general are somewhat guilty) you tend to see backtracking a little more. I don't want to go backwards. I want to explore and see new things!
Backtracking can actually be helpful and interesting in some (but few) cases. I mean even in Dead Space and Resident Evil (specifically 4), there are a few extra scares or items.
The Cutscenes usually add to the plot. If you can't skip them, it's really just a inconvenience.
Fetching quests, however, are boring, repetive, and often pointless.
The Cutscenes usually add to the plot. If you can't skip them, it's really just a inconvenience.
Fetching quests, however, are boring, repetive, and often pointless.
I'm inclined to pick grinding as, save for maybe Diablo 2 and (to a much lesser extent) Borderlands, grinding is ALWAYS an instant turn off for me. I HATE grinding with a passion. I don't play games to work. That's what a job is for.
That said, I have to go with "other" and fill it in with "All of the above". Each of those detracts from a game greatly in my eyes. If a dev is too lazy or too uncreative to think of a good way to fill out their game, or for what ever reason feels compelled to "fluff up" their game with pointless crap, then they have no business making a game. End...of...story.
That said, I have to go with "other" and fill it in with "All of the above". Each of those detracts from a game greatly in my eyes. If a dev is too lazy or too uncreative to think of a good way to fill out their game, or for what ever reason feels compelled to "fluff up" their game with pointless crap, then they have no business making a game. End...of...story.