Poll: Would a Batman movie with the Riddler have worked better than TDKR?
- Thread starter Gizmo1990
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That may well be so, but I would take Mad as Hatter, Almost Got 'Im, Joker's Wild and Perchance to Dream rather than the Riddler episodes.ZippyDSMlee said:
If TV was that bad at the time they originally aired, then that simply means that calling the Riddler episodes mediocre is also a damning of the state of early 90s television. It does not make the Riddler episodes good.
I don't feel it would have worked as a direct sequel to the Dark Knight.
Despite the fact that the Riddler and Joker are obviously different characters they kind of fit the same niche. Also after 2 batman movies dealing with insanity it was nice to have a villain who was more about brute strength and subterfuge instead of just plain madness.
Would I enjoy a Nolan take on the Riddler now that we have Rises?
Yes! 100 times Yes! Especially after Rises ending and the reveal of a specific character in the last minutes of the film. I just don't feel that it would have been better to have the Riddler follow the Joker.
Despite the fact that the Riddler and Joker are obviously different characters they kind of fit the same niche. Also after 2 batman movies dealing with insanity it was nice to have a villain who was more about brute strength and subterfuge instead of just plain madness.
Would I enjoy a Nolan take on the Riddler now that we have Rises?
Yes! 100 times Yes! Especially after Rises ending and the reveal of a specific character in the last minutes of the film. I just don't feel that it would have been better to have the Riddler follow the Joker.
I doubt it would have made a better film. As you said, Nolan goes for realism in his Batman films, and the Riddler would be almost impossible to take seriously as there isn't much particularly threatening about a crook whose entire MO is leaving brainteasers lying around.
I'm thinking of going to see TDKR again because I still don't know how I felt about it. I love Tom Hardy and thought he did a great job, and even though I still don't understand why they gave him a cartoon British villain's voice after a while it started to grow on me to the point where the most enjoyable parts for me were Bane's speeches.
I'm thinking of going to see TDKR again because I still don't know how I felt about it. I love Tom Hardy and thought he did a great job, and even though I still don't understand why they gave him a cartoon British villain's voice after a while it started to grow on me to the point where the most enjoyable parts for me were Bane's speeches.
Nah. The riddler just isn't the right style of villain for the Nolan trilogy, and even if changes were made to make the character a little darker, I don't think he could have raised the stakes the way Bane did.
Ya but the Hatter is more campy, the EPs might be bad but the character is not.Hjalmar Fryklund said:
Look it would not take much to make the riddler an awesome villain. The root of the char is obsessive compulsive disorder. All you have to do is look at consistent OCD tropes and behaviors, and mirror their darkest parts. Exactly what was done with the Jokers reliance on humor. You make them (pardon the pun) Batshit crazy, and then tie back to whatever hook you need. You could easily drain every last drop of camp out of the riddler.
Bane had the potential to be something awesome. He is a highly underrated villain because people want to equate his lumbering size with slow and dull witted which has not been the case from the source material. Remember when Bane "broke" the batman... it was not just that he overpowered him. He first outsmarted the worlds greatest detective, and then managed to capitalize on that weakness with his strength. I cannot comment on the film as ive not seen it yet, but at least to an outside observer, it seems as if the biggest problem with Bane in the film is the face mask and there really being no practical way in live action to make something like that not look cheesy and dated. That ends up undercutting the potential for the char to be taken seriously.
Again I have yet to see it, but the reviews generally say the same thing. Good film, not exactly great, No chance in hell to stand up to the prior installment. I think that is false. I think Nolan could have done so much more by ditching Bane all together and bypassing the riddler and going with HUSH You basically get the same sort of psychological head games as you would from someone like the riddler. Nolan gets a much more clean slate template from which to build and perma define a char in the universe, and its like the hook practically writes itself, with the central theme of conflict being Bruce wayne trying to figure out if its Batman who defines him or he who defines batman.
No. The riddler is a silly villain. He can get away with any crime he wants but instead he insists on leaving hints for Batman that Batman always figures out. He's foiling himself everytime and yet he does it over and over again. Even the Arkham games' attempts to make him super dark only partially work as he's dark, but he's still silly.
Some people say that the riddler wouldn't work because he is too campy, but nolan could strip the campiness out of him. Bane in the comics walks around with a luchador mask and takes a magical chemical that makes him superhuman. That is kinda campy, but nolan made him a serious character. I don't know if it would have been better than TDKR (since the problems with the film aren't really because of bane imo) but I think it would be great.
To me they would have to use the insecure, neurotic aspect of riddler's personality to make it work. He is so threatening but when you think about it he is a very pathetic person, killing people just to mask his own insecurity. This could make for a great villain. My main problem is that he might be too similar to the joker in TDK, since he did do several riddler-esque things with his hostages (although it wasn't about outsmarting batman).
To me they would have to use the insecure, neurotic aspect of riddler's personality to make it work. He is so threatening but when you think about it he is a very pathetic person, killing people just to mask his own insecurity. This could make for a great villain. My main problem is that he might be too similar to the joker in TDK, since he did do several riddler-esque things with his hostages (although it wasn't about outsmarting batman).
The character was definitely fun and interesting, it is a pity they left him so woefully unexplored.ZippyDSMlee said:
The Hatter was really fun too, yet at the same time he could wring out pity for him out of you. He was also the only supervillain in the series that started out as fairly sane and whose descent into madness was more subtle and gradual than the others. A real favorite of mine.
I don't think so, Riddler is to similar to Joker imo, the series needed a character that could flat out beat the shit out of batman, if it wasn't Bane there would be no reason for batman to have to start getting back into shape, Alfred could probably beat up Riddler.
Ya they did Hatter much better but could you handle a reinvented one? I mean as far as reinvention goes DCU Riddler is for the most part easy to adapt to the big screen, Hatter would be too subdued and over simplified I would think.Hjalmar Fryklund said:
Well, I never said that TDKR could have used the Hatter; I don't think he really works as feauture length movie villain. The DCAU Riddler however, would work really well in a two hour movie, though you would a second villain to spice things up. Penguin perhaps?ZippyDSMlee said:
Yeah he would work, They had a good Two face in TDK too even if its been done before a serious two face and Riddler film would be awesome.Hjalmar Fryklund said:
I would think Hatter could work well but doing his gimmick is tricky then again wearing a tiara like device that can fit under a hat that brainwashes you is not so far fetched but the smart nerd driven to maddens is a bit cliche. Personality wise he would come off a bit more viscous and broken with a touch Joker's(animated series) style. I don't remember if he was crazy with gadgets but I always thought he would go that route build up a gang of brainwashed people to protect a brain washed Alice from the real world.
So on one end you have Crazy(I know I know Hatter is not that crazy/random) and on the other you have cold, calculating and deadly crimes. I think they would play well off each other. But Penguin doing the charming gambler/arms dealer/gang leader thing works too as his and near opposite style wise, not that Penguin is not cold and calculating its just Riddlers crimes are seemingly more random.
God TL
R ><
The thing makes the DCAU Mad Hatter so special is that he avoids falling into the two types of villains that Batman usually fights. On one hand you got Dent, Isley, Crane, etc. who are damned by by their psyches and have little choice in becoming bad guys, while on the other hand you got small-time crooks who at the end of the day lack the capacity for malevolence to become truly evil. DCAU Hatter on the other hand places himself somewhere in the middle in that his actions are abhorrent and disgusting, yet his motivations and personality make him unnerving and pitiful at the same time.ZippyDSMlee said:Yeah he would work, They had a good Two face in TDK too even if its been done before a serious two face and Riddler film would be awesome.Hjalmar Fryklund said:
I would think Hatter could work well but doing his gimmick is tricky then again wearing a tiara like device that can fit under a hat that brainwashes you is not so far fetched but the smart nerd driven to maddens is a bit cliche. Personality wise he would come off a bit more viscous and broken with a touch Joker's(animated series) style. I don't remember if he was crazy with gadgets but I always thought he would go that route build up a gang of brainwashed people to protect a brain washed Alice from the real world.
So on one end you have Crazy(I know I know Hatter is not that crazy/random) and on the other you have cold, calculating and deadly crimes. I think they would play well off each other. But Penguin doing the charming gambler/arms dealer/gang leader thing works too as his and near opposite style wise, not that Penguin is not cold and calculating its just Riddlers crimes are seemingly more random.
God TL
I think the key to Mad Hatter is that he would rather live in his Wonderland than reality. If he was part of a movie the writers would have to start from that point and work from there. I am gonna have to sleep on this on though.
The Riddler´s character I think is at its best when you focus on what makes him tick, rather than what makes him who he is. How he became the Riddler is not as interesting as what puzzles he can conjure up.