Poll: Would you date a transgendered person?

Ziadaine_v1legacy

Flamboyant Homosexual
Apr 11, 2009
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Melanie McGreevey said:
it's like the choice to breath or not.
Not going to cause an argument, but there is an IMMENSE difference between the trans-gender topic at hand (dating, being one, going through the operation etc etc), and breathing.


with that said, I'd probably couldn't date one. I don't know why, even being Bi it's just something I couldn't do. With my ex boyfriend he had a habit of dressing up as a female, and despite the scariness how well he pulled it off, I preferred him as he was, as a guy.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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Nov 7, 2011
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nekoali said:
Slayer_2 said:
Comrade_Beric said:
Slayer_2 said:
ZephyriaSoul said:
Slayer_2 said:
In my first example, the transgender person is a drunk driver getting behind the wheel of the car (undergoing a mutilation you could loosely call "surgery"). The results of their actions are their own fault and they have no one else to blame when they get wrapped around a pole.
I wouldn't say it's much of a choice to be like this. The surgery, yes, it's a choice. But the actual transgender part of it...I was born like this.
Great, dress up in heels and a skirt, find a nice guy, whatever. Undergoing experimental surgery and hormone treatments is a terrible idea, in my opinion. Surgery should be mostly reserved for critical health-affecting conditions, a last resort if nothing else will do.

I don't really get it, I'll admit. If I woke up tomorrow in a female body, I'd think it was epic. And I'd be a lesbian, most likely. I sure as hell wouldn't have surgery.
Probably because you've already been a male your entire life and the change would be something new. Imagine if you'd never had your male parts in the first place... Could you really say that you cannot possibly see how someone in your position might want surgery to fix the problem?
That'd make it harder, I think. Can't miss what you never had. I'd miss the convenience of having a dick, but I certainly wouldn't attempt a dangerous, costly half-ass surgery.
This boils down to the case of if you have never been though the same situation as a transgender person, you can never really understand what they go through on a daily basis. Trust me, not a day goes by that I wish I wasn't transgender. From my earliest memories to right now it has been a source of unwanted stress in my life. And it is certainly not something I chose any more than someone chose to be black, or gay, or where they were born. You can and do choose your religion however.
...is that to be taken as a serious comment? Your going to tell others that you can't choose to be transgender, but that people can choose their religion? You realize that for many people, that is an incredibly offensive comment to make, right? smh

nekoali said:
Because you are not transgender, you will never understand the profound disconnect and self hatred that often comes with your body not matching what your mind says. And so many studies and personal experiences have shown that, if the dysphoria is strong enough, this is something you can't just 'get over' mentally. Some people for whom the gender dysphoria isn't as bad can learn to live with the way they are. But that's not universally true. Nobody fits precisely into neat little boxes, everyone is different.

Despite the fact that I will most likely never be able to afford it, surgery is something I need to feel whole. Sure, I am living as a female now, and have been for years. And I am happier with my life than I have been in my past because I am living true to myself. But every day, several times a day, I am reminded that I don't have the parts I should have. I can't ever really enjoy sex because it always reminds me of what I do have that I shouldn't, and what I should have that I don't. Surgery can help with that.

The procedures for transitioning and gender reassignment surgery are not experimental these days. Procedures, therapies, hormone regimes have been worked out over decades. Most gender reassignment surgeons have handled thousands of patients in their careers. There is more to learn of course, because there is always more to learn. But it's not like people are stumbling their way though the dark on this.

[...]

But make no mistake, it is not a mental condition. It can't be cured though therapy, drugs or praying it away. Those things can help to cope... none of them deals with the core problem, your body and mind not agreeing on gender. And of those things, the body is the one that can be changed to bring them in alignment with each other.
What? I think you contradicted yourself about the use of substances and the roles they can play in "helping" you.
 

nekoali

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Well, I do apologize to anyone that I cause offense to. I certainly don't mean to do so. But religion is something that you do choose. Nobody has to follow the religion they are born into, or the one that their family follows. People can and do change their religion. Your sexual orientation or if you are born transgender is not something a person can choose. You can choose whether or not to act in a way to be true to yourself, or act in a way to fit in with majority of people, pretending to be straight or the gender of your birth sex. That doesn't actually make you straight or that gender... it just means you are pretending.

As far as the second point you mentioned, you completely ignored my next sentence. Hormone treatments and therapy are not a cure. A 'cure' in this case would be making your mind match what your body says, instead of the other way around.

Hormones therapy is a way of helping your condition. Asthma medicine does not cure asthma, but it does help you control it so you can live a more 'normal' life. Hormone replacement therapy suppresses the inappropriate hormones and supplements the appropriate hormones in your body so that certain physical changes are made to bring your body in line with what your appropriate gender is.

It is the same with therapy. Ex-gay and ex-trans therapy, where people try to alter how you think (ie brainwashing) does not work. This has been shown by the medical establishment in test and observation. It leads to even more depression and self denial than we are already prone to, thanks to the lack of understanding and hatred we receive so often.

What proper therapy is used for in the case of transgender people is a way to check with them. Make sure that they are truly transgender, that they understand the costs and risks of transition, hormones and surgery. To allow them to make an informed decision and to make sure their decision will not result in them being a danger to themselves or others. We also often have a host of other issues to deal with thanks to being an oppressed minority. Or from just being human.
 

TheSnarkKnight

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Apr 24, 2011
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Slayer_2 said:
I'm pretty sure I could handle the "thousands of tiny social constraints" that females have to deal with. Fair trade for the thousands of male related ones I'd drop. Not saying it'd be a split-second adjustment, but after the whole "oh shit" thing, I'd be good. Life is too short and precious to spend time moping over what you can't change. Accept what you have and work with it, cut with the grain. I see transpeople as generally trying to cut against the grain, and just making a mess of things.

I have no idea what trans-people think like, or if it's a delusion/fantasy thing. It wouldn't surprise me, as I doubt such conditions could be so commonly caused by a pre-birth brain malfunction (and unlike homosexuality, I would term "feeling like you're in the wrong body" as a malfunction). I have no beef with you if you feel the need to undergo surgery to feel good about yourself, but don't expect me to want to date or have sex with you. It's really not a lot to ask, I'm not hating, I'm just not interested in people who are all about physical appearances, whether it's a dumb bimbo or a MTF transsexual. Don't get up in arms about not being viewed as a "true female", because you aren't. Sorry, life is hard.
You do realise that just because you're dropping one set of constraints, it doesn't mean you can easily settle into another bunch? I mean, this isn't simple maths, drop three constraints, pick up three more, as simple as that. Whilst some people, I will concede, could probably live as males or females without being particularly bothered, many could not. You might be one of the few people with enough gender fluidity to make it, or you might just be an idiot who hasn't really thought it all the way through. I'm not going to comment, because that's not what we're discussing.

Your "oh just cheer up and take what you're given" attitude just reeks of someone who has lived a privileged life in the security of the physically and mentally healthy. I bet you think depressed people should just "cheer up", that people with legitimate eating disorders should "just eat more/less", that people with anxiety disorders should "just get over it". You might think I'm putting words in your mouth here *or maybe you might agree with the above statements, come to think of it) but the attitude is very much the same. It's an uncaring and unsympathetic attitude, finding simple solutions rather than going deeper, and putting yourself in the other person's shoes.

You say you have no idea what transpeople think like and that could be the first intelligent thing you've said so far. You make out that you have no beef with transpeople, but everytime you post something here it's filled with (probably unintentional) transphobia. You say it wouldn't surprise you if it's all one big delusion/fantasy, you personally define it all as a "malfunction". Based on what?! Don't just dismiss as a "oh, i just do" or come up with some tautologous crap to justify it. What makes you think this? There are people who would define homosexuality as these things, what makes you any different from them? Are you really unable to see how all this comes across, or do you simply just not care?

Also, I feel that I should point out that it's not all about undergoing surgery to feel good about one's self; surgery is a relatively minor part of the whole thing, a bit that you seem terribly hung-up on. Not all transpeople have surgery, and it's not their defining attribute. Their defining attribute (broadly speaking) is their desire to live comfortably as the gender they identify as, something that you deny them with every ignorant and hateful word that comes out of your mouth.

Also, once again, you end on a typically unsympathetic note, telling transpeople not to get all up in arms because of something as small and trivial as people not seeing them as real men and women. If people were being racist on this forum, saying blacks or jews weren't "real people", would you just tell them that "life is hard" and that they shouldn't get all "up in arms"? And don't use your fucking "ahhh! but you have no choice over being black or jewish" argument again, because one's control over what group they fall into doesn't diminish the responsibility of the people hating on them.
 

Slayer_2

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TheSnarkKnight said:
You do realise that just because you're dropping one set of constraints, it doesn't mean you can easily settle into another bunch? I mean, this isn't simple maths, drop three constraints, pick up three more, as simple as that. Whilst some people, I will concede, could probably live as males or females without being particularly bothered, many could not. You might be one of the few people with enough gender fluidity to make it, or you might just be an idiot who hasn't really thought it all the way through. I'm not going to comment, because that's not what we're discussing.
You do realize you sound incredibly sexist, right? For all your insinuations of me being a homophobe and racist, I find it hilariously ironic that you seem to make out the differences between each gender as so large that a human could not adapt to them. The human mind is incredibly adaptive, and our genders are not THAT different.

Your "oh just cheer up and take what you're given" attitude just reeks of someone who has lived a privileged life in the security of the physically and mentally healthy. I bet you think depressed people should just "cheer up", that people with legitimate eating disorders should "just eat more/less", that people with anxiety disorders should "just get over it". You might think I'm putting words in your mouth here *or maybe you might agree with the above statements, come to think of it) but the attitude is very much the same. It's an uncaring and unsympathetic attitude, finding simple solutions rather than going deeper, and putting yourself in the other person's shoes.
Damn me to hell for being happy with what I got. You're right, I should take up bitching and moping over things out of my control, life is better when you get hung up over things you can't fix.

Depressed people CAN get happier (with therapy and time, and unfortunately, sometimes a lot of bad medications), fat/anorexic people CAN get slimmer/thicker (with exercise, counselling, and eating right), the kicker here is that transsexuals CANNOT change genitalia, build, etc. All of what is used by society to define male/female. You can argue that the surgery and hormones might do that, I disagree. So far, we have not advanced far enough in the medical field for that. Maybe in a few decades.

We've focused a lot on me, lets discuss you for a bit. You reek of a transsexual trying to identify with every minority it's been popular to hate on at one point or another, with no real correlation between your group and them. Trying to build sympathy that way is stupid and a desperate stab in the dark, at best.

You say you have no idea what transpeople think like and that could be the first intelligent thing you've said so far. You make out that you have no beef with transpeople, but everytime you post something here it's filled with (probably unintentional) transphobia. You say it wouldn't surprise you if it's all one big delusion/fantasy, you personally define it all as a "malfunction". Based on what?! Don't just dismiss as a "oh, i just do" or come up with some tautologous crap to justify it. What makes you think this? There are people who would define homosexuality as these things, what makes you any different from them? Are you really unable to see how all this comes across, or do you simply just not care?
I would define a "malfunction of the brain" to be anything causing the person unnecessary physical or mental anguish or duress. Such as wishing to live a life that is impossible for them to achieve. See, if I was homosexual, I could just go and bone some guy, problem solved, not what I would term a malfunction. If I wanted to have a vagina and get boned by some guy, I've hit a wall, as I lack the parts for that. Homosexuals CAN be happy with their body, transsexuals cannot. It's that simple.

You seem to think that because I think "feeling like you're in the wrong body" (how does this NOT sound like a malfunction?) is a malfunction, I immediately hate gays, bi's, blacks, jews, every minority under the sun. It's really just pathetic.

Also, I feel that I should point out that it's not all about undergoing surgery to feel good about one's self; surgery is a relatively minor part of the whole thing, a bit that you seem terribly hung-up on. Not all transpeople have surgery, and it's not their defining attribute. Their defining attribute (broadly speaking) is their desire to live comfortably as the gender they identify as, something that you deny them with every ignorant and hateful word that comes out of your mouth.
Sure, there is hormones, dresses, and high heels. But you seem to say it's more the mindset. So ideally, what does a MtF do in your world? Look like a normal male, but expect people to use female pronouns when addressing them? Sounds kind of dumb to me. Really, I don't know where you're going with this one.

Also, once again, you end on a typically unsympathetic note, telling transpeople not to get all up in arms because of something as small and trivial as people not seeing them as real men and women. If people were being racist on this forum, saying blacks or jews weren't "real people", would you just tell them that "life is hard" and that they shouldn't get all "up in arms"? And don't use your fucking "ahhh! but you have no choice over being black or jewish" argument again, because one's control over what group they fall into doesn't diminish the responsibility of the people hating on them.
Here's another one for the road: "cry me a river". You don't like my example because it's true. So if you can't dislike a person for the way they were born, and you can't dislike them for their actions, what are you left with? Sure, in a utopia we'd have everyone being all lovey-dubby with each other. However, I'd like my check please, I'm paying with "reality".

You seem to enjoy trying to hide behind other minorities, here's one to add to your collection: Pretend I'm a pedophile. I don't abuse kids, but I fantasize over them, even still, society terms me a freak, and would put me into therapy faster than you can say "kids", if anyone found out. Society, like life, is harsh, and the fact is that you seem to expect everyone to be Saint Teresa reincarnated is naive and immature.
 

TheSnarkKnight

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Apr 24, 2011
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Slayer_2 said:
Here's another one for the road: "cry me a river". You don't like my example because it's true. So if you can't dislike a person for the way they were born, and you can't dislike them for their actions, what are you left with? Sure, in a utopia we'd have everyone being all lovey-dubby with each other. However, I'd like my check please, I'm paying with "reality".
Ok, this seems to be where you're going fundamentally wrong. You don't seem to understand that there are sometimes legitimate reasons for disliking people, and sometimes there are not, and the defining aspect of either group isn't how much decision they had over it. Broadly-speaking, it's ok to hold something against a certain group, if that group is defined by harm they've done to others: murderers, muggers, rapists, etc. Ones it's not so fair to do that to are ones that aren't defined by doing harm to others: gays, blacks, haberdashers.

That's really the most simplified version of it that I could come up with. See, if I were to go skateboarding, even if I had complete conscious control over that action, you hating me for it would be unjustified. It's baseless, I've done nothing to harm you or anybody, so why this hate you're throwing at me? Are you getting this yet? Sorry if this sounds patronising, but you really seem to be struggling with the concept.

Also, I'm going to point out here, that I'm not calling your racist or homophobic; I'm just saying you might as well be, considering that you seem so intent on using their justifications, arguments and rationalisations. I'm trying to get you to understand how you come across and, maybe, see that what you're saying is so mindnumbingly wrong that it's unbelievable.

With that in mind, let's address your point that "the world is horrible, therefore I'm justified in being horrible" argument. So what if society sucks at times, how the hell does that justify your personal closed-mindedness, bigotry, hatred, prejudice or whatever particular thing we're addressing at any given time? If we were living in a more racist time (sorry for comparing one minority's plight to that of another again), would you dismiss blacks asking to be treated equally, telling them that that as not going to happen, telling them to stop "bitching and moping about things out of their control"? Would you accept some guy justifying his bigotted views on this oppressed minority if he went off on one, saying that the world kinda sucked, and there'd always be racism, so what's the harm in him being racist?

There are other things I'd like to touch on (the fact that your definition of "malfunction of the brain" is so loose that it could apply to almost anyone but a psychopath, the fact that you refer to the stuff depressed people might take as "bad medication", the fact that not everyone agrees with your view on how to define male and female, the fact that you're kinda a dick, and so on and so forth...) but arguing each of these points with you would be kinda pointless. You have admitted to your ignorance on transpeople and the issues surrounding it, have made no attempt to defend yourself against my accusations of you being unsympathetic towards them, and, as I've said before, a large bulk of your arguments could be used to justify almost any bigotry... so, yeah... not really sure what to say to you any more. It's almost as though nothing I say could alter your worldview even slightly.
 

Slayer_2

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Jul 28, 2008
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TheSnarkKnight said:
Ok, this seems to be where you're going fundamentally wrong. You don't seem to understand that there are sometimes legitimate reasons for disliking people, and sometimes there are not, and the defining aspect of either group isn't how much decision they had over it. Broadly-speaking, it's ok to hold something against a certain group, if that group is defined by harm they've done to others: murderers, muggers, rapists, etc. Ones it's not so fair to do that to are ones that aren't defined by doing harm to others: gays, blacks, haberdashers.
Once again, the irony is killing me. Get your head out of the sand.

That's really the most simplified version of it that I could come up with. See, if I were to go skateboarding, even if I had complete conscious control over that action, you hating me for it would be unjustified. It's baseless, I've done nothing to harm you or anybody, so why this hate you're throwing at me? Are you getting this yet? Sorry if this sounds patronising, but you really seem to be struggling with the concept.
Skateboarders cut people off (usually people in cars or on bikes, but pedestrians, too). They are generally assholes and have quite the attitude. So yes, if you were skateboarding, I would dislike you right off the bat.

Also, I'm going to point out here, that I'm not calling your racist or homophobic; I'm just saying you might as well be, considering that you seem so intent on using their justifications, arguments and rationalisations. I'm trying to get you to understand how you come across and, maybe, see that what you're saying is so mindnumbingly wrong that it's unbelievable.
Really, it seemed to be implied, quite heavily. In fact you state yourself that I might as well be. Because I don't have any sexual attraction to transsexuals, I might as well join the KKK and neo nazis in their plight to "purge the earth"? You were discussing mindnumbingly wrong...

With that in mind, let's address your point that "the world is horrible, therefore I'm justified in being horrible" argument. So what if society sucks at times, how the hell does that justify your personal closed-mindedness, bigotry, hatred, prejudice or whatever particular thing we're addressing at any given time? If we were living in a more racist time (sorry for comparing one minority's plight to that of another again), would you dismiss blacks asking to be treated equally, telling them that that as not going to happen, telling them to stop "bitching and moping about things out of their control"? Would you accept some guy justifying his bigotted views on this oppressed minority if he went off on one, saying that the world kinda sucked, and there'd always be racism, so what's the harm in him being racist?
Racism =/= transphobia. It's like saying planes and cars are the same because they both can have internal combustion engines in them. The black guy can never pretend to be white (and get away with it). The transsexual can pretend to be happy with the body they have. This is a key difference you seem to either fail to notice, or ignore outright.

There are other things I'd like to touch on (the fact that your definition of "malfunction of the brain" is so loose that it could apply to almost anyone but a psychopath, the fact that you refer to the stuff depressed people might take as "bad medication", the fact that not everyone agrees with your view on how to define male and female, the fact that you're kinda a dick, and so on and so forth...) but arguing each of these points with you would be kinda pointless. You have admitted to your ignorance on transpeople and the issues surrounding it, have made no attempt to defend yourself against my accusations of you being unsympathetic towards them, and, as I've said before, a large bulk of your arguments could be used to justify almost any bigotry... so, yeah... not really sure what to say to you any more. It's almost as though nothing I say could alter your worldview even slightly.
You're just cluing in now, eh? You might have a hope in hell of altering my views if I regarded even one of your countless points as valid. So far, the only one you have right is that I'm a dick (and even that was just a pathetic attempt at insulting me), everything else is so piss-poor I wouldn't wipe my ass with it. But even still, you're a stranger on the internet with a bias heavier than depleted uranium, so I highly doubt you could do much even if you could pull together and make one argument I couldn't shred like paper.

TL;DR: Every transgender person I have seen has been so ugly (means a lot coming from me, too, bomb squad for life) I would not want to screw them, and so arrogant and irritating that I would never want to date them. Thank you for confirming the latter.
 

Snow Fire

Fluffy Neko Kemono
Jan 19, 2009
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I couldn't honestly, I don't like the idea of someone, willingly and with full intent, wanting to or have already, mutilated their own body. I've taken the stance to call them by their set in stone, genetic sex. I'm sorry, I just can't accept someone doing something like that to their body. :c I love my cells too much. *hugs all my cells*
 

MartianWarMachine

Neon-pink cyber-kitty
Dec 10, 2010
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Snow Fire said:
I couldn't honestly, I don't like the idea of someone, willingly and with full intent, wanting to or have already, mutilated their own body. I've taken the stance to call them by their set in stone, genetic sex. I'm sorry, I just can't accept someone doing something like that to their body. :c I love my cells too much. *hugs all my cells*
You're a menie :mad:

*Replaces all your cells with nanobots*

How do you like your cells NOW? :mad:
 

Mayamellissa

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Dec 3, 2011
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MartianWarMachine said:
Snow Fire said:
I couldn't honestly, I don't like the idea of someone, willingly and with full intent, wanting to or have already, mutilated their own body. I've taken the stance to call them by their set in stone, genetic sex. I'm sorry, I just can't accept someone doing something like that to their body. :c I love my cells too much. *hugs all my cells*
You're a menie :mad:

*Replaces all your cells with nanobots*

How do you like your cells NOW? :mad:
*blink blink* Shit just got weird...
 

MartianWarMachine

Neon-pink cyber-kitty
Dec 10, 2010
1,174
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Mayamellissa said:
MartianWarMachine said:
Snow Fire said:
I couldn't honestly, I don't like the idea of someone, willingly and with full intent, wanting to or have already, mutilated their own body. I've taken the stance to call them by their set in stone, genetic sex. I'm sorry, I just can't accept someone doing something like that to their body. :c I love my cells too much. *hugs all my cells*
You're a menie :mad:

*Replaces all your cells with nanobots*

How do you like your cells NOW? :mad:
*blink blink* Shit just got weird...
Oh, sorry. He was against me replacing my flesh with machinery, so I replaced all of his instead.
 

Mayamellissa

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MartianWarMachine said:
Mayamellissa said:
MartianWarMachine said:
Snow Fire said:
I couldn't honestly, I don't like the idea of someone, willingly and with full intent, wanting to or have already, mutilated their own body. I've taken the stance to call them by their set in stone, genetic sex. I'm sorry, I just can't accept someone doing something like that to their body. :c I love my cells too much. *hugs all my cells*
You're a menie :mad:

*Replaces all your cells with nanobots*

How do you like your cells NOW? :mad:
*blink blink* Shit just got weird...
Oh, sorry. He was against me replacing my flesh with machinery, so I replaced all of his instead.
Oh trust me. I as following... I just keep staring at the vote count of 79 people who said they were desperately lonely and would date anyone who wanted them while listening to you 2.
 

valkeminator

404Th Ravens. No.04
Nov 19, 2009
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Probably not, I would be really reluctant to do it... Sure they're a girl inside, but still... there's a reason why they want to be a man outside too.

/shudders
 

KelsieKatt

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May 14, 2008
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valkeminator said:
Probably not, I would be really reluctant to do it... Sure they're a girl inside, but still... there's a reason why they want to be a man outside too.

/shudders
Eh... I'm somewhat confused as to what exactly this comment means.

Are you saying that Female-to-Males are women (inside) who want to be men outside? Or are you talking about something else I can't fathom at all...?

Is this some weird concept inspired by fictional shemale pornography?
 

valkeminator

404Th Ravens. No.04
Nov 19, 2009
262
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KelsieKatt said:
valkeminator said:
Probably not, I would be really reluctant to do it... Sure they're a girl inside, but still... there's a reason why they want to be a man outside too.

/shudders
Eh... I'm somewhat confused as to what exactly this comment means.

Are you saying that Female-to-Males are women (inside) who want to be men outside? Or are you talking about something else I can't fathom at all...?

Is this some weird concept inspired by fictional shemale pornography?
Your first thought is what I had in mind at the time of writing, but then I let it be a bit vague so its "open for alternate interpretation".

...If you get what I mean.
 

KelsieKatt

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May 14, 2008
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valkeminator said:
Your first thought is what I had in mind at the time of writing, but then I let it be a bit vague so its "open for alternate interpretation".

...If you get what I mean.
Not really following still.

As it is, the first one is something that FTMs would disagree with strongly as they do not see themselves as "girls inside" at all, hence why they want to be male and take testosterone and they would likely refuse to date or talk to you if you referred to them as such. (Not necessarily implying you want to date/talk, just that they would likely be pissed at you and wouldn't give you the choice.)

So, I'm still confused as to what exactly you're talking about and have no idea where you're going with the rest of this.

Edit: Oh, and by the way, our post count is identical at 192 (as of this time.) I just found that amusing bizarre.
 

MartianWarMachine

Neon-pink cyber-kitty
Dec 10, 2010
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KelsieKatt said:
valkeminator said:
Your first thought is what I had in mind at the time of writing, but then I let it be a bit vague so its "open for alternate interpretation".

...If you get what I mean.
Not really following still.

As it is, the first one is something that FTMs would disagree with strongly as they do not see themselves as "girls inside" at all, hence why they want to be male and take testosterone and they would likely refuse to date or talk to you if you referred to them as such. (Not necessarily implying you want to date/talk, just that they would likely be pissed at you and wouldn't give you the choice.)

So, I'm still confused as to what exactly you're talking about and have no idea where you're going with the rest of this.

Edit: Oh, and by the way, our post count is identical at 192 (as of this time.) I just found that amusing bizarre.
You're losing by a post! Quick, reply to this one to make it up!
 

Thorenus

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Feb 15, 2012
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They're like gay people to me in the sense that they were simply born that way and that's okay (though I'd honestly rather have a gay child than an FTM). I can't imagine me having a relationship with one though. I like vagina's too much.