Poll: Would you harbor a nazi?
- Thread starter Drake_Dercon
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Surprisingly well put. A lot of people forget that much of modern society relies on technology either developed BY the nazis, or developed to FIGHT the nazis. But that's just the technological aspect; there was intense propaganda surrounding the second world war (the Sequel to the War to End All War; god even Hollywood didn't come up with a sequel THAT shitty). Like what? Oh, that's right, the USA started Eugenics project DECADES before Hitler. And that's not even scratching the surface. Hitler was a folk-hero in Germany because of how oppressed the Germans were after WWI. Long story short, Germany lost WWI, and America basically helped by hammering the last nail in the coffin that German was already laying in. So, a stupid set up of alliances led to a massive war that settled nothing, and the coalition that won decided it would be fair to punish the SHIT out of the losers, despite the fact that they hadn't instigated the war. Germany goes into an economic depression of epic proportions (it makes our Great Depression look like a Bad Hair Day) and is essentially leaderless, their military completely neutered, they have lost all international power and pride. So really, what the fuck did they think would happen? They treat an entire country that is renowned for it's military as a bunch of whipped losers, then raid their meager treasury, and THEN destroy what little remains of their economy, and just expect them to bend over and take it? I say the Nazis were exactly what this world deserved.Ultratwinkie said:
Sure, the Nazis were MASSIVE assholes on a scale we hadn't imagined. But they NEVER WOULD HAVE EXISTED if Germany didn't get totally fucked by the peace treaties that ended WWI. Everybody likes to paint them as evil, while conveniently forgetting that we made them that way. The Nazis acted largely in desperation; they, as a nation, had NOTHING to lose. The rest of the world made sure of that. If history has taught us nothing else, it has taught this: the most dangerous thing is a person that hates you and has NO reason NOT to attack. That was the exact position Germany was left in in the 1930's. We were only painted as the glorious saviors because the fiction is so much more fun to read that the truth. I'm not saying the nazi's were right; they were desperate, and desperation creates stupidity. With nothing to lose, they triggered the war that was waiting to explode, and 50 million people died for nothing (I try to contemplate Infinity on a daily basis, and 50 million individuals, 50 million people LIKE ME is a hard concept to wrap my head around).
So is our nation wrong? no. There is no such thing as elemental right and wrong. Morality is decided by the individual. Are the textbooks wrong? Technically, no. Are they misleading? FUCK YES.
Agreed. I wouldn't trust a repentant man who's been hiding for so long. Also why would I hide him? If he's survived for this long he knows how to hide himself. Yeah, crimes too great to be forgiven with a promise that they regret all of it, also rising to an officer takes work, meaning he worked to get where he was, so that means he deserves to go wherever he goes for that "work".Evidencebased said:
first off rehabilitation doesnt work, the only way for a criminal to get back on the strait and narrow is if they truly want to be thereDrake_Dercon said:
that being said there are some crimes that are so big that not only should we not waste the time trying to rehabilitate them we shouldnt even waste the time keeping them in prison but should be executed on the spot after a fair trial
now this person that is so sorry and repentant for what he has done has admitted to causing a great deal of damage so much in fact that it he has caused literally crimes against humanity and as such is on a totally different scale than your run of the mill murderer
If i had him in front of me id probably shoot him on the spot even without a trial
Let's face it, any high ranking Nazi is probably so frail nowadays that he is likely to be in a home, or more likely dead. If it were from a more modern conflict, I think that I'd still turn them in, since they had enough conscience to confess to you - the worst they can do is serve out their remaining days in the hands of the authorities, to show that they regret what they do as some sort of gesture of repentance.
i noted in my post that there were outher victims but the jews were just the most and the first (6 million out of 13 million dead were jews)Gordon_4 said:
a nazi as you said isnt the "young pup" because you can see those today in every country (not so much in israel cause we have no choise but joining the army) and yes most evil people are dead some even paid for theyr crimes (for example hitlers helper aichman was the only person ever to recive death penalty in israel)
and about the nazi in question i already answered that this guy just want forgivness and should get it cause he is sorry for what he did and he is just an old guy now seeking rest.
If he truly regretted it and had become a good person, I'd help him.
What exactly did he do though?, Did he actually gas people?, Throw them into the furnaces, What?
What exactly did he do though?, Did he actually gas people?, Throw them into the furnaces, What?
No, not because I think the "crimes are too great". In fact, I'm inclined to think they've changed. However, I'm a law-abiding citizen. I do as the law says and assist the police.
Lawful Neutral. All there is to it.
Lawful Neutral. All there is to it.
Never posted anything before, mostly my opinions have already been voiced a hundred times before on a topic , in this thread it's only been like ten times so here it goes.
Most importantly I think it should be realized that (almost) everyone would have done the same thing if they had been unfortunate enough to be a white male in the Third Reich. Even though you may have convinced yourself that you are different.
Statistically speaking however, it seems unlikely that everyone that screams for 'justice' to be served would actually act courageously like killing themselves or something. I agree that 'just following orders' is no excuse but, just staying alive kinda is.
Also I would like someone to explain to me why exactly 'justice' should be served. It is not bringing back any of the old mans victims, the only reason to lock someone away (in my opinion ofc.) is to prevent them from harming someone else and since a 90 year old ex nazi is not going to hurt anyone anymore there seems no point.
ps. history is written by the victorious, someone could convict some European and American officers with as much justification as this dude.
oh and I do realize that if you were something else then a white male in the Third Reich you would be even more unlucky..
Most importantly I think it should be realized that (almost) everyone would have done the same thing if they had been unfortunate enough to be a white male in the Third Reich. Even though you may have convinced yourself that you are different.
Statistically speaking however, it seems unlikely that everyone that screams for 'justice' to be served would actually act courageously like killing themselves or something. I agree that 'just following orders' is no excuse but, just staying alive kinda is.
Also I would like someone to explain to me why exactly 'justice' should be served. It is not bringing back any of the old mans victims, the only reason to lock someone away (in my opinion ofc.) is to prevent them from harming someone else and since a 90 year old ex nazi is not going to hurt anyone anymore there seems no point.
ps. history is written by the victorious, someone could convict some European and American officers with as much justification as this dude.
oh and I do realize that if you were something else then a white male in the Third Reich you would be even more unlucky..
if he was just a simple soldier, fine. but an officer in a concentration camp. he had to have barked orders. I'm not hiding that.
Being repentant doesn't mean they get to pull a Karmic Houdini. I would probably try to convince the man to turn himself in. I'd be willing to serve as a character witness and help provide proof that he has changed, but I could not bring myself to lie under direct questioning.
i wouldnt harbor a saintly schoolgirl that stole a piece of candy. what am i, the underground railroad? he can deal with his own problems, nazi or otherwise.
that i said, as much as we love to vilify them, germany doesnt just happen to be the world's biggest repository of evil, and most nazis were people like any other. in the same dangerously desperate situation alot of german citizens were in at the time, i can bet a great deal of people here would have jumped at the opportunity to join the SS. most knew only what their country told them about soldiers, which was propaganda, and then they were indoctrinated by fear into committing whatever atrocities they were told to. we have the nazis themselves to look back on, but imagine if you were there; you wouldnt have any instantly recognizable army of evil to compare this act to, you would have nothing but your superior officer telling you to butcher a family of strangers or have your own family butchered; to torture a civilian or be tortured. no one will ever admit it, and most never have to, but put into that situation a great deal of people would do anything they claim they would never do if the stakes are high enough. human motivations are not so simple that we can just ignore the extreme circumstances and claim anyone who contributed to what the nazis collectively did is irredeemably evil. that doesnt excuse any of it, but it annoys how quickly people get on their high horse and claim they could never do anything remotely as bad as what the nazis did; there is always a hypothetical situation were EVERYONE, from hitler to mother therasa would commit any given heinous atrocity, as much as we like to deny it.
...and if didnt, youd be dead, and i wouldnt have to worry about harboring you.
that i said, as much as we love to vilify them, germany doesnt just happen to be the world's biggest repository of evil, and most nazis were people like any other. in the same dangerously desperate situation alot of german citizens were in at the time, i can bet a great deal of people here would have jumped at the opportunity to join the SS. most knew only what their country told them about soldiers, which was propaganda, and then they were indoctrinated by fear into committing whatever atrocities they were told to. we have the nazis themselves to look back on, but imagine if you were there; you wouldnt have any instantly recognizable army of evil to compare this act to, you would have nothing but your superior officer telling you to butcher a family of strangers or have your own family butchered; to torture a civilian or be tortured. no one will ever admit it, and most never have to, but put into that situation a great deal of people would do anything they claim they would never do if the stakes are high enough. human motivations are not so simple that we can just ignore the extreme circumstances and claim anyone who contributed to what the nazis collectively did is irredeemably evil. that doesnt excuse any of it, but it annoys how quickly people get on their high horse and claim they could never do anything remotely as bad as what the nazis did; there is always a hypothetical situation were EVERYONE, from hitler to mother therasa would commit any given heinous atrocity, as much as we like to deny it.
...and if didnt, youd be dead, and i wouldnt have to worry about harboring you.
I would turn him in, hoping that he will get fair trial. However he was a ranking officer so... He must of gave orders. It would also depend if he had choice in the matter if he joined or was forced to join in the army. What did he do exactly? How did he murder them? Those are the questions I would ask.
Anyone who *still* has to hide due to fear over war crimes...wasn't a 'Guard'.
I don't have numbers in front of me but 'Concentration Camp Guards' weren't hanged at the Nuremburg trials, and the vast majority of soldiers involved were more or less let go.
If someone came to me this long after the events, and is still terrified? That man has a Name and probably Israelis hunting his ass.
Honestly, the question is invalid to me because of this.
I don't have numbers in front of me but 'Concentration Camp Guards' weren't hanged at the Nuremburg trials, and the vast majority of soldiers involved were more or less let go.
If someone came to me this long after the events, and is still terrified? That man has a Name and probably Israelis hunting his ass.
Honestly, the question is invalid to me because of this.
