Poll: Would you not buy a game, if they gender swapped your hero?

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

If that was the only change, then no, i wouldn't boycott a game that'd be otherwise fine(!) because of that. I'd find it annoying tho if established hero would flip their gender for no reason(or ethnicity, or name, or backstory etc.), just not enough to boycott it or send creators death threats or whatever is hip to be done in these situations these days.

If a man was flipped to a woman (Female Garrett, female Gordon, female GTA protag, Link whatever) I would buy the hell out of that.

Please, not Garrett Recent reboot already rustled my jimmies enough with replacing Stephen Russell besides other things. However, i'd not mind if someone made a proper sequel where we'd play as that girl seen in TS end cutscene.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

If a man was flipped to a woman (Female Garrett, female Gordon, female GTA protag, Link whatever) I would buy the hell out of that.

If Samus, Lara, Chell, became men I would avoid that like the plague.

We have countless (literally I doubt anyone has an accurate count of games with male protagonists) games with men as the leads. Precious few with female leads.

Sign me the hell up.

We have even fewer dragon leads, what if the female chars were turned into genderless dragons? Would you buy that? I always want more playable dragons.


But yeah more seriously, a game with a male Samus can be good and a game with a female Link can suck, to buy or avoid either based on the swap alone without first looking at the actual game is illogical.

Being intentionally idiotic only makes your position look idiotic. Bring me a reasonable debate and I'll participate.

As for the more serious part, we're operating here under an assumption of equal quality levels in order to keep the debate afloat. If you want to dig for that one little pebble to claim the soil of this conversation is tainted then you're missing the point.

Actually, I was only half joking, as games with dragon protags like Breath of Fire or Dragkengard or hell even Horde are something I genuinely would want more of. Or something like Okami where you're a wolf. I am genuinely tired of playing as humans. So feel free to swap dragons to just nonhumans and answer.

And if we assume equal qualty, we are to assume that gender has no effect on quality since it is possibke to swap it and not affect quality at all...somehow...meaning that if you make any such choice based on gender you are choosing whether or not to get the games on criteria outside of quality, which is even MORE illogical, so I chose not to assume equal quality.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Already answered this question some time ago, so I'll have to quote myself.

I buy games based on them being good with gameplay I would enjoy. Everything else is secondary at best. I don't care what gender, sex, sexuality, religion, political views or even species my protagonist is. It could be a transgender pansexual muslim neo-conservative ice cube in the shape of a wombat for all I care, so long as it isn't handled in a groan-inducing way and is part of a solid game, I'll give it consideration.

In short, I don't give a shit what gender my character is.

 

[2HF]

And if we assume equal qualty, we are to assume that gender has no effect on quality since it is possibke to swap it and not affect quality at all...somehow...meaning that if you make any such choice based on gender you are choosing whether or not to get the games on criteria outside of quality, which is even MORE illogical, so I chose not to assume equal quality.

Choosing which gender you want to play as in damn near any game that allows the option doesn't affect the quality of the game, does it? I hear ME is better with female Shep but that's an outlier.

The rest of your post made 0 sense to me but I'll say that it is in no way illogical to support things you want more of in hopes of getting more of them, nor is it illogical to avoid something that very clearly goes against the ideas you are trying to support. In short, I'd buy female led games in hopes of seeing more, and I'd avoid games that took what few female leads we had and made them men because that goes against what I personally want from the industry.

 

[visiblenoise]

I thought this through using Metal Gear Solid as my favorite series. I think I'd check out a remake of a Metal Gear game with a female Snake... when it hits $5 on Steam, out of a sort of morbid curiosity. But not because I think it would be a brilliant idea, or that it is in any way necessary - could be quite the opposite actually, depending on how exactly it was done. But I also understand that I'm not a reliable predictor of what I will like or dislike.

 

[wizzy555]

I think it heavily depends on the character and the game. You can gender swap Luke Skywalker (cough Ray) without much issue but you can't genderswap James Bond without massively changing the character dynamics and context of the story.

Likewise I don't think changing Link is a big deal because he has almost no character, but changing Kratos would just be odd... maybe an interesting odd or maybe a crap odd.

 

[Worgen]

Yes. However don't get me wrong, its not because i have to play a female or anything. But if samus suddenly became male or link suddenly became female, it just wouldn't make sense in an established series where it was always the opposite.

Now however, if i was to get a new IP, that was inspired by metroid or Legend of zelda and i had to play as a girl it wouldn't matter. But do not genderbend a character and make it canon.

Except that Links gender kinda doesn't matter at all. Hes a silent protagonist in a game that is actually name after the female lead who almost never gets to do anything.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

And if we assume equal qualty, we are to assume that gender has no effect on quality since it is possibke to swap it and not affect quality at all...somehow...meaning that if you make any such choice based on gender you are choosing whether or not to get the games on criteria outside of quality, which is even MORE illogical, so I chose not to assume equal quality.

Choosing which gender you want to play as in damn near any game that allows the option doesn't affect the quality of the game, does it? I hear ME is better with female Shep but that's an outlier.

The rest of your post made 0 sense to me but I'll say that it is in no way illogical to support things you want more of in hopes of getting more of them, nor is it illogical to avoid something that very clearly goes against the ideas you are trying to support. In short, I'd buy female led games in hopes of seeing more, and I'd avoid games that took what few female leads we had and made them men because that goes against what I personally want from the industry.

Choosing the gender is in every game that allows it, which is obvious, as allowing it entails that the option would be in, so you just said basicaly that the sky is the sky, not even that it is blue. Not every game allows you to choose stuff about the protag, lots of games don't work with players choosing stuff about the characters to that degree.


If quality is the same regardless of gender, yet you still prefer one gender over the other, the REASON for the preference is not-quality-based. Yes, you want more of something, and the REASON for that, that is illogical.

 

[Recusant]

At the time of my writing this, 15 out of 67 votes have been cast in the categories of "this would affect my decision", to which I have to ask- what kind of games are you people playing? Pulling a trigger, swinging a sword, piloting a starship, exploring a wilderness, hacking a computer, commanding an army, pushing buttons and flipping levers- these are all things you do with your hands, eyes, brain, and tongue. If you've managed to figure out a way to them with your genitals, I suppose that might be worth seeing, but that's going to be true regardless of their configuration. In all but the most character-driven games (and, I suppose, the dating sims and porn games), the only thing that changing gender is going to actually make different is what outfits you can wear and who flirts with you. And how many deeply character-driven games are we seeing these days, when it seems like every developer has decided to make their main characters absolute blank slates that almost never so much as speak, the better for you to be able to relate to them (because that's how we all react to new and terrifying situations, right? Refuse to talk, even when directly asked a question by a friend, and slaughter everything that looks unfamiliar?)?

That said, character-driven games are character-driven (who says I'm afraid of controversy?), and changing biological character traits (unless it's part of the story) is inevitably going to come across as a slap to the face to fans of the games- above and beyond the "We're desperate and absolutely out of new ideas" message it sends. So while I'd find it a red flag, it's not a deal-breaker in and of itself.

But for pity's sake, if you want more characters of a specific race/sex/whatever configuration, make up some new ones! If enough people do, the industry might go back to thinking characters with actual character are cool again.

 

[Chefsbrian]

It probably wouldn't make much of a difference to me. If your talking a game in a series, then as long as its not stepping on the toes of the prior games, I won't really care. Long lasting series, or series that soft-reset their heroes (Looking at you, LOZ) can get away with gender swaps pretty easily if they really wanted to.

If your entire game series has been about the rise of Prince dudebro the conqueror, and then you drop out a game that says Prince dudebro has died and this other character who's a female has suddenly risen up and replaced him, I'd be disappointed. But if the last game actually wrapped up Prince dudebro's story, and the new game was you playing his daughter and fighting to keep the kingdom, sure, why not, his story is done now lets play her story.

Point is, kicking around something that's established to accommodate gender doesn't make much sense. Continuations of the story of a world/universe, or side stories or whatever, I don't care what gender the hero is, its a new story and they can be whoever or whatever, and I'll still be interested if I like the universe.

I don't get the "If it doesn't make a difference what gender they are, then make some female" argument against established series though. Yes, it makes more or less no difference if Link is male or female, so why change him? A female Link isn't the link I know, and would be a bit odd to me. But flipping the roles, making Link the captured one and Zelda the hero, that seems fine/kinda cool to me.

 

[2HF]

If quality is the same regardless of gender, yet you still prefer one gender over the other, the REASON for the preference is not-quality-based. Yes, you want more of something, and the REASON for that, that is illogical.

Wanting more of something because there isn't enough of that something isn't illogical. It's just human nature. Even if it were illogical, that doesn't mean it's wrong. We're not all Spock. There is an imbalance. I want that imbalance corrected. If nothing else, balance is logical and worth striving for.

 

[shrekfan246]

If it was for just no reason at all, and had little bearing on the plot, it'd be a little out of place.

But should any of the writers actually think about the hows and whys of changing something like that, or make it the plot, I'd probably end up getting it whenever I can.

I'm just going to quote this guy:

what kind of games are you people playing? Pulling a trigger, swinging a sword, piloting a starship, exploring a wilderness, hacking a computer, commanding an army, pushing buttons and flipping levers- these are all things you do with your hands, eyes, brain, and tongue. If you've managed to figure out a way to them with your genitals, I suppose that might be worth seeing, but that's going to be true regardless of their configuration.

There are precious few games where the player character's gender actually has literally any impact on the plot, and in many of the games where it does, you can choose anyway.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Yes. However don't get me wrong, its not because i have to play a female or anything. But if samus suddenly became male or link suddenly became female, it just wouldn't make sense in an established series where it was always the opposite.

Now however, if i was to get a new IP, that was inspired by metroid or Legend of zelda and i had to play as a girl it wouldn't matter. But do not genderbend a character and make it canon.

Except that Links gender kinda doesn't matter at all. Hes a silent protagonist in a game that is actually name after the female lead who almost never gets to do anything.

Yes but, (and i am no expert, i stop playing LoZ games after Ocarina of time), as far as i know there has never been a " female link". Also, i would argue as far back as LoZ1 and Zelda2 Legend of Link, there is a recurring love interest between the two characters. Sure I'll agree in no place that is it stated the Link must be a boy, but as far as what we have gotten, history has shown that, there isn't a timeline in where Link was a girl.

I mean, sure it could be done, but why? Why not just make a new IP inspired by LoZ? Why not just make Zelda the protagonist? Why give Link a vagina? Like i said, I'm not in anyway opposed to playing women, I'm opposed the Genderbending current protagonists.

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

I wonder how many copies would a gender swapped Dead or Alive: Extreme Volleyball sell.
There's probably a market for that.

 

[shrekfan246]

Yes. However don't get me wrong, its not because i have to play a female or anything. But if samus suddenly became male or link suddenly became female, it just wouldn't make sense in an established series where it was always the opposite.

Now however, if i was to get a new IP, that was inspired by metroid or Legend of zelda and i had to play as a girl it wouldn't matter. But do not genderbend a character and make it canon.

Except that Links gender kinda doesn't matter at all. Hes a silent protagonist in a game that is actually name after the female lead who almost never gets to do anything.

Yes but, (and i am no expert, i stop playing LoZ games after Ocarina of time), as far as i know there has never been a " female link". Also, i would argue as far back as LoZ1 and Zelda2 Legend of Link, there is a recurring love interest between the two characters. Sure I'll agree in no place that is it stated the Link must be a boy, but as far as what we have gotten, history has shown that, there isn't a timeline in where Link was a girl.

I literally just had this conversation in the thread that inspired this one.

First-

I mean, sure it could be done, but why?

See above, where you said "Link's never been a girl!"?

That's why.

Because people would really be excited to have something new.

Link is very rarely the same actual Link from game to game, and other than a (very weak) appeal to "tradition", there's no reason that Link couldn't at least once reincarnate as a woman. Or, as many people have suggested, let the player choose. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it never should. I can't even wrap my head around that sort of argument. When Ocarina came out, 3D games were still in their infancy and were relatively untested, and 3D Zelda games were certainly an unknown element; does that mean it should've just been a 2D title like its predecessors?

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Yes. However don't get me wrong, its not because i have to play a female or anything. But if samus suddenly became male or link suddenly became female, it just wouldn't make sense in an established series where it was always the opposite.

Now however, if i was to get a new IP, that was inspired by metroid or Legend of zelda and i had to play as a girl it wouldn't matter. But do not genderbend a character and make it canon.

Except that Links gender kinda doesn't matter at all. Hes a silent protagonist in a game that is actually name after the female lead who almost never gets to do anything.

Yes but, (and i am no expert, i stop playing LoZ games after Ocarina of time), as far as i know there has never been a " female link". Also, i would argue as far back as LoZ1 and Zelda2 Legend of Link, there is a recurring love interest between the two characters. Sure I'll agree in no place that is it stated the Link must be a boy, but as far as what we have gotten, history has shown that, there isn't a timeline in where Link was a girl.

I mean, sure it could be done, but why? Why not just make a new IP inspired by LoZ? Why not just make Zelda the protagonist? Why give Link a vagina? Like i said, I'm not in anyway opposed to playing women...

...I'm opposed the Genderbending current protagonists.

Technically speaking, the majority of Links have only been current for one game, maybe two. The current Link is, if I recall correctly, the longest surviving Link, at three games for one hero (Maybe four, depending on how you view Link's Awakening) out of eighteen games.

And it's not like Link is Bruce Wayne or something. He's just some dumb kid that the Gods poked around with in utero

 

[Lufia Erim]

Yes. However don't get me wrong, its not because i have to play a female or anything. But if samus suddenly became male or link suddenly became female, it just wouldn't make sense in an established series where it was always the opposite.

Now however, if i was to get a new IP, that was inspired by metroid or Legend of zelda and i had to play as a girl it wouldn't matter. But do not genderbend a character and make it canon.

Except that Links gender kinda doesn't matter at all. Hes a silent protagonist in a game that is actually name after the female lead who almost never gets to do anything.

Yes but, (and i am no expert, i stop playing LoZ games after Ocarina of time), as far as i know there has never been a " female link". Also, i would argue as far back as LoZ1 and Zelda2 Legend of Link, there is a recurring love interest between the two characters. Sure I'll agree in no place that is it stated the Link must be a boy, but as far as what we have gotten, history has shown that, there isn't a timeline in where Link was a girl.

I literally just had this conversation in the thread that inspired this one.

First-

I mean, sure it could be done, but why?

See above, where you said "Link's never been a girl!"?

That's why.

Because people would really be excited to have something new.

Link is very rarely the same actual Link from game to game, and other than a (very weak) appeal to "tradition", there's no reason that Link couldn't at least once reincarnate as a woman. Or, as many people have suggested, let the player choose. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it never should. I can't even wrap my head around that sort of argument. When Ocarina came out, 3D games were still in their infancy and were relatively untested, and 3D Zelda games were certainly an unknown element; does that mean it should've just been a 2D title like its predecessors?

You know what also hypes people up? A new fucking IP. Make the legend of Zacchary, with a female hero of time and prince of [ insert fictional place here]. Have it be an alternate univers or just a new game inspired by LoZ. If just making link a girl is what it takes to make people hype for a new Zelda game, the series is dead.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Spoiler

Yes. However don't get me wrong, its not because i have to play a female or anything. But if samus suddenly became male or link suddenly became female, it just wouldn't make sense in an established series where it was always the opposite.

Now however, if i was to get a new IP, that was inspired by metroid or Legend of zelda and i had to play as a girl it wouldn't matter. But do not genderbend a character and make it canon.

Except that Links gender kinda doesn't matter at all. Hes a silent protagonist in a game that is actually name after the female lead who almost never gets to do anything.

Yes but, (and i am no expert, i stop playing LoZ games after Ocarina of time), as far as i know there has never been a " female link". Also, i would argue as far back as LoZ1 and Zelda2 Legend of Link, there is a recurring love interest between the two characters. Sure I'll agree in no place that is it stated the Link must be a boy, but as far as what we have gotten, history has shown that, there isn't a timeline in where Link was a girl.

I mean, sure it could be done, but why? Why not just make a new IP inspired by LoZ? Why not just make Zelda the protagonist? Why give Link a vagina? Like i said, I'm not in anyway opposed to playing women...

...I'm opposed the Genderbending current protagonists.

Technically speaking, the majority of Links have only been current for one game, maybe two. The current Link is, if I recall correctly, the longest surviving Link, at three games for one hero (Maybe four, depending on how you view Link's Awakening) out of eighteen games.

And it's not like Link is Bruce Wayne or something. He's just some dumb kid that the Gods poked around with in utero

In 18 games how many links were girls? Humans notice patterns, and the pattern suggests that link is always a boy. Again im not opposed to playing a game LIKE loz, with a female protagonist, just not LoZ.

But i have a feeling this thread has been derailed because of The legend of Zelda lol.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Yes. However don't get me wrong, its not because i have to play a female or anything. But if samus suddenly became male or link suddenly became female, it just wouldn't make sense in an established series where it was always the opposite.

Now however, if i was to get a new IP, that was inspired by metroid or Legend of zelda and i had to play as a girl it wouldn't matter. But do not genderbend a character and make it canon.

Except that Links gender kinda doesn't matter at all. Hes a silent protagonist in a game that is actually name after the female lead who almost never gets to do anything.

Yes but, (and i am no expert, i stop playing LoZ games after Ocarina of time), as far as i know there has never been a " female link". Also, i would argue as far back as LoZ1 and Zelda2 Legend of Link, there is a recurring love interest between the two characters. Sure I'll agree in no place that is it stated the Link must be a boy, but as far as what we have gotten, history has shown that, there isn't a timeline in where Link was a girl.

I mean, sure it could be done, but why? Why not just make a new IP inspired by LoZ? Why not just make Zelda the protagonist? Why give Link a vagina? Like i said, I'm not in anyway opposed to playing women...

...I'm opposed the Genderbending current protagonists.

Technically speaking, the majority of Links have only been current for one game, maybe two. The current Link is, if I recall correctly, the longest surviving Link, at three games for one hero (Maybe four, depending on how you view Link's Awakening) out of eighteen games.

And it's not like Link is Bruce Wayne or something. He's just some dumb kid that the Gods poked around with in utero

In 18 games how many links were girls? Humans notice patterns, and the pattern suggests that link is always a boy. Again im not opposed to playing a game LIKE loz, with a female protagonist, just not LoZ.

But i have a feeling this thread has been derailed because of The legend of Zelda lol.

So? Now we've moved the goal post from changing a character is bad, to letting a female take on a mantle that doesn't have a logical reason for being sex specific besides 'Cus history' is bad.

And really, maybe an old Link was a girl. 'He' does have a propensity to be rather feminine. What's the reverse of a trap?

 

[Winnosh]

Gender Swapping characters not really interested. However with characters such as Link, or The Doctor, and such, where it's a different body or person in each game I don't really care if it's male or female for a current incarnation.

You have Link as a female in one game, or with a chooseable gender in the game, it doesn't change anything of the previous games, and doesn't affect the games afterwards either.