Poll: Your Pet is Drowning, and so is a Stranger.

[Domoslaf]

I wish I'd never seen this thread. I saw it about 5 days ago and decided not to post, but to this day I can't stop thinking about it. It really depressed me. I post on The Escapist only occasionally, when I feel I have something to add to the discussion, but this right here...

I mean guys, just stop for a moment and think what you're implying. How can you ever write a thing like "but I don't know that person / I don't owe that person"? IT IS A HUMAN BEING. You owe a FRIKKIN WHOLE LOT TO ANOTHER HUMAN BEINGS, stop acting like all you got in life was by your own because IT WAS NOT.

I get individualism, but this here... It is downright depressing, saddening and just plain wrong. Some of you really need a doctor. Or, to be more precise, need to grow up. I will now put it all on your young age to get it out of my mind.

I mean FUCK.

EDIT: And all that "everyone has the right to their own opinion"? No, they don't, when it involves killing people (even through inaction), they REALLY DO NOT.

 

[Angry_squirrel]

SNIP

No no no no no. Asians, Whites, Blacks are all HUMAN. Period. Which is why "racism" is stupid in the first place. Trying to equivocate Racism with Speciesism, is frankly, insulting and intellectually dishonest. The fact that Richard Hawkins tried to draw this comparison does not make it any less stupid, it just highlights his irrationality.

To answer your question, if a species of alien that were of equal intelligence were to land on our planet, we should treat them as equals, until such a time when a distinction must be made for "us" vs them", because at the end of the day, as a species of HUMAN, you side with your own species. That is all it comes down to.

Putting something in bold capitals doesn't magically make it fact. This is just your opinion. Morals are, at least to an extent, subjective.
Just as my post is my opinion. I'm not trying to present it as anything else, rather I'm (trying) to present my side of the argument in a manner which you may not necessarily agree with, but can at least understand.

You, and many of the other people who I'm arguing with, are simply telling us that our side of the argument are wrong, simply because our hypothetical actions disagree with your ethics. Well to be quite honest, I don't care what you believe is right or wrong, I have my own moral standards.

What makes your beliefs right and ours wrong? Surely you aren't so narrow minded as to claim that you are right, and the majority are wrong, simply because you say so.

 

[Angry_squirrel]

Yeah, I think I'm done with this thread. Filled with entitled selfish assholes. That's most of humanity I suppose, but considering the majority of this forum is filled with self righteous liberals of the worst kind, it's just hilarious to see this.

And you sir, are a bigoted, stubborn, intolerant, narrow minded tosser, with a severe lack of communication skills.

 

[Sam Neale]

I find this an interesting question, but a human life is longer than almost any pets, so if you stick into a numbers and equation whats best for the world the human will always win.
also could you live with yourself talking to the family of the dead person.
Property vs pet, I would take pet. but when you weigh up the pros and cons really there is no competition.

 

[the December King]

I wish I'd never seen this thread. I saw it about 5 days ago and decided not to post, but to this day I can't stop thinking about it. It really depressed me. I post on The Escapist only occasionally, when I feel I have something to add to the discussion, but this right here...

I mean guys, just stop for a moment and think what you're implying. How can you ever write a thing like "but I don't know that person / I don't owe that person"? IT IS A HUMAN BEING. You owe a FRIKKIN WHOLE LOT TO ANOTHER HUMAN BEINGS, stop acting like all you got in life was by your own because IT WAS NOT.

I get individualism, but this here... It is downright depressing, saddening and just plain wrong. Some of you really need a doctor. Or, to be more precise, need to grow up. I will now put it all on your young age to get it out of my mind.

I mean FUCK.

EDIT: And all that "everyone has the right to their own opinion"? No, they don't, when it involves killing people (even through inaction), they REALLY DO NOT.

I do owe alot to other people- I'm sure your generalization was not necessarily directed at me. But a stranger is just that, and I don't owe them anything. My descision to save a loved one (if I do indeed make that choice) is not that hard to understand.

You know, 'heartless' is a term often used to describe sociopaths. Maybe you need the doctor?

 

[bliebblob]

First of all, my pet is a turtle so take that.

Secondly, I'd save both. Don't bother telling me I can't because I will prove you wrong, as is standard badass protocol.

 

[Domoslaf]

You know, 'heartless' is a term often used to describe sociopaths. Maybe you need the doctor?

And I'm the heartless one for opting to save a human being? I don't care what you love, you could love stabbing infants in the head for all I care, but this here is a really simple case of basic morality.

You owe a whole lot to strangers, by the way, unless you're living alone in a middle of a jungle somewhere.

 

[Kajin]

I don't have to worry about my pet, for it can breath underwater. Unfortunately, the stranger is going to have problems other than drowning when the Kraken gets to him.

 

[the December King]

You know, 'heartless' is a term often used to describe sociopaths. Maybe you need the doctor?

And I'm the heartless one for opting to save a human being? I don't care what you love, you could love stabbing infants in the head for all I care, but this here is a really simple case of basic morality.

No, no, you're not heartless for saving the stranger. But you might be heartless for not seeming to even try to understand why someone might want to save their loved one. You know, the whole 'I don't care what you love' part.

EDIT: stabbing infants in the face being somehow aside from basic morality is pretty funny!

 

[Domoslaf]

No, no, you're not heartless for saving the stranger. But you might be heartless for not seeming to even try to understand why someone might want to save their loved one. You know, the whole 'I don't care what you love' part.

Well if your love condemns another person to die then I reserve my right to have a problem with it.

EDIT: Oh, the infants part, I was just trying to be funny, I may have gone a little overboard.

 

[Sam Neale]

No, no, you're not heartless for saving the stranger. But you might be heartless for not seeming to even try to understand why someone might want to save their loved one. You know, the whole 'I don't care what you love' part.

Well if your love condemns another person to die then I reserve my right to have a problem with it.

EDIT: Oh, the infants part, I was just trying to be funny, I may have gone a little overboard.

Agreed its understandable as a gut reaction but if you stop and think about it for a few seconds it makes little sense

 

[the December King]

No, no, you're not heartless for saving the stranger. But you might be heartless for not seeming to even try to understand why someone might want to save their loved one. You know, the whole 'I don't care what you love' part.

Well if your love condemns another person to die then I reserve my right to have a problem with it.

This is a no- win situation- someone is going to lose the one they love, either way. That's why it's such a heartbreaking and difficult question. And you can have a problem with it, of course- you don't have to share my opinion. But telling us we need to see a doctor comes across as juvenile.

 

[Sam Neale]

also just a quick question how would you feel if you lost a loved one because someone saved their pet instead of your loved one?

 

[the December King]

EDIT: Oh, the infants part, I was just trying to be funny, I may have gone a little overboard.

It was funny! It's sad that it took me a second to realize it, though. 'Going overboard', and shaking a morbid discussion like this one up, is always commendable.

 

[Angry_squirrel]

But this here is a really simple case of basic morality.

See, I would argue that the vast majority of people, let's say at least 80% of the population, understand basic morality. The fact that the results are pretty much tied then, surely suggests that this isn't that simple.

All you're doing is labeling us wrong, because our opinions aren't conforming to your ethics, and of course only you and the people who agree with you actually have the one and only, true understanding of what is right and what is wrong.

EDIT: Sorry for the sarcasm, I've been up all night and am feeling very ratty.

 

[Xisin]

I would save the stranger. Sorry, Tub, but we both know you would be in a complete panic and would claw my eyes out. (We also both know, you would never be near a pool of water unless I threw you in it.)

 

[Domoslaf]

This is a no- win situation- someone is going to lose the one they love, either way. That's why it's such a heartbreaking and difficult question. And you can have a problem with it, of course- you don't have to share my opinion. But telling us we need to see a doctor comes across as juvenile.

What you don't understand is that not everything in life is a case of opinion and subjective perspective. You may think that after so many discussions on internet forums, but that's just not true. And I can't agree that saving another person facing certain death is a matter of personal decision and weighing in pros and cons and calculating life expectancy and whatnot.

Of course if you're inable to help, then by all means, don't try to. But if you are it is your goddamn responsibility, even if you may lose something you love in the process. That's why we have society, if you reject that you may as well go and try to live without any help from other people, see how that works out.

EDIT: And I'm not telling you're not entitled to your own opinion either way. Of course you are. But I can see you as a bad person for having it, can't I?

 

[persephone]

Given my physical disabilities, I would just drown if I had to jump in to help. So I would scream for help. But if I wasn't disabled, I would save the stranger; as much as I love my cat, I can always get a new one.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

If you picked the pet i understand but you don't really have any right to complain if you or someone you loved died in an identical scenario because someone saved their pet.

I mean if you were like "Why didn't they save me or my family!" They could just use your reasons and you'd basically have to agree with them. You have to wonder why, in a world where everyone holds your opinion, why would it be a worse place for you? I mean you'd basically show yourself up as a massive hypocrite if you were in any way upset or felt wronged by the person who failed to save you or your family. "STOP AGREEING WITH ME! STOP IT! EVEN THOUGH IM RIGHT I DONT WANT YOU TO REALIZE IT! BE WRONG SO I CAN LIVE" which sounds hilarious.

My life goal is to think "If everyone else shared my view on this would the world be a better place for me and for others?" If the answer is no its obvious your opinion is unsustainable. For example i became an organ donor because i realized if i was dying of kidney failure id ask "Why didn't people donate?" and my only answer would be "Because people are like me" which labels me a horrible hypocrite. I cant live with that. I have to pick the human.

 

[deleted_by_strongbad]

With ethical dilemma polling classically an option like I call for help is considered a way for the person to avoid helping while avoiding guilt. This is because people are typically more cavalier when being polled than in action, so careful behaviour as a response is normally indicative of something else. Also, the reason the stranger doesn't have a stated age is to allow the subject to self-define the stranger, the term stranger implies negative associations and you will statistically get more people saving the person if you said your pet and a person you don't know instead of stranger.

This isn't a test of how much you love your pet, but which you feel more empathy for: familiar non-human vs unfamiliar possibly unsavory human.