(Post?) Warlords of Draenor lore and story

[edgecult]

OK! to start! spoilers spoilers spoilers! especially for big things from 6.2 as well as draenor as a whole. also conjecture and wild mass guessing ahead! Read on at your own risk!




ok...! so here we go.


So.. some interesting 6.2 info seems to have leaked out. The final cut scene for Hellfire Citadel being the most curious thing and it feels very much like we are all wrapped up and cleared with Draenor! neat and huzzahs all around commanders and heroes except.. where does that leave the story overall? Lets step back and look it over for a moment.

Alright with the launch we know Garrosh Hellscream ran off with the help of the crazy bronze dragon guy from Timeless isle and hopped back in time to what we can assume was Pre Warcraft 1 Draenor. BSed his dad with half a prophecy and talked the entire horde into not drinking demon blood and start building explosives and siege weapons. In the process kidnapped gul'dan and his friends wire him to their home brewed dark portal and use it to attack Post Pandaria Azeroth. This bit of time hopping is part of what makes the whole run kind of curious. We go from normal timeline to alternate history timeline in the past. this is important for later.

Anyway from their if you played through you know the main bits that happen along the way. Heroes cross over with Thrall and Khadgar. Garrisons are built and most importantly a bunch of orcs and a handful of Draenai die. (Nerzul, Kargath, Ogrim, Blackhand, Garrosh, Velen, Maraad) all leading up to the mid point story twist. Surprise Guldan's really the main bad guy! (anyone surprised?) He drops that Garrosh was Groms kid from the future oh and he got murdered. The blood offers come up but Grom surprisingly stays with no. They fight, Grom loses. Guldan hijacks the Iron Horde and everyone except Grom drinks demon blood and goes Fel orc. (including the last standing warlord Kilrogg who was MIA all game after the starting sequence.)

Anyway it seems somewhere along the way everyone ends up saving Grom and it all leads to the big nasty final fight at the Hellfire Citadel. Heroes along with all the major living players in the story raid the building fight through demons and nasty orcs including Kilrogg, Teron Gorefiend, the undead body of Mannoroth and then finally the final smack down with... Archimonde? Freshly summoned by Gul'dan straight from the Twisting Nether itself.. This is where it gets weird...

So as you can imagine with raid bosses Archimonde goes down loots dropped and the big finish cut scene rolls. Pretty much Archimonde decides he's not going down alone. Blasts Gul'dan for screwing up the invasion of Azeroth and seems to shoot him straight into the Twisting Nether... then dies himself. Except maybe not really? (Eradar don't seem to die for good when not killed in the twisting nether itself.. at least without the aid of a few thousand suicide wisps and the power of the world tree. neither preset for this fight.) So 2 main bad guys maybe sorta not dead but at least either not sitting in draenor causing problems so the native draenor heroes call it a win and celebrate. Khadgar turns into a bird and flies away. Something about in the light we are all the same.. roll credits.

So... great! Draenor is saved. No more invasion of angry future tech orcs for present Azeroth (we're down to like 1 1/2 clans of orcs and a bunch of Draenai left anyway) but where does this leave the overall plot? It only really seems to leave to routes far as i've been able to map out.

1. we all go home to present (Post Pandaria) Azeroth in which case nothing changed which sorta makes the whole story sorta pointless no? We went on a massive time and space adventure and made it back in time for Detention. The other timeline is out of sight and mind, but what did it accomplish aside from killing garrosh finally. We aren't needed to do stuff in Draenor aside from cleanup and the natives got that so we pack up our castles and go home. Bit of a letdown no?

2. We all go on through this current post Draenor timeline.. which is going to be a giant mess due to the all the Orcs we murdered throughout the story. which leaves alot of room for new story but goes full DC new 52 retconning the entirety of the history of all the games back to Warcraft orcs vs humans. which seems totally crazy but a bloody mess for a lot of reasons...

This is a universe with no orc invasion so no burning of stormwind, no outland, no Lich king because nerzuls already dead so no undead. No death knight arthas so no sacking of Silvermoon so no Banshee Queen and with it no Forsaken. Also that means no Archimonde invasion of Azeroth so no need to ever leave eastern kingdoms to kalimdor, Night elves stay shut in isolationists but immortal, Tauren get maybe wiped out by Centaurs and Quillboars. Darkspears sink with their island because thrall never trips over them on his boat trip. Draenai never crash land the Exodar. (they never needed to leave without elves and demons) Illidan never gets let out of his cage. Kael'thas never gets drunk of demon powers. The Alt timeline azeroth would be kind of weird to try and walk into as anyone that's not a human, dwarf, gnome and maybe blood elf or goblin..

So unless this is going to be the last Wow Xpac and we are going to roll into Warcraft 4 or WoW2 I dunno what they can roll into next without doing about 40 backflips to even handwave whichever route they wanna take with this. I'll give them a point that i'm very curious to see how they wanna make it work though.

Ok I rambled along way to much on this.. but it's a weird bit of lore jumping and I wanted to see where ya'll might be on it. As said at the start. This is a lot of guessing on my part and I might just be missing something big and stupid that writes off all my questions but that's why I'm asking about it. If it exists I'de love to know what kills my questions or maybe adds new ones.. Anyway! share your thoughts and theories! which route would you prefer if either or do you have a whole other take on the idea that works even better than my ramblings above?

 

[theSovietConnection]

I think we'll be going back to the standard Azeroth with the next expansion pack, but I have serious doubts it'll be a "nothing's changed" sorta deal. You have to remember that canonically, the majority of the heroes of Azeroth have all been in New Draenor dealing with Garrosh and his bullshit. Meaning that Azeroth has been, for the most part, left undefended. I have a feeling someone will have invaded Azeroth during this time period and the next pack will be dealing with whoever that ends up being.

 

[The Madman]

Look, normally I'm the first to defend Blizzard stories as being harmless cheesy fun, but the story for WoD just took a turn towards downright idiotic. A level of stupidity not seen since the plot for Cataclysm, which itself still marks Blizzards worst story-writing to date (And it's not like they're exactly poets to begin with).

The most offensive thing isn't all the time-traveling alternate-dimensional crap, nah, that all falls under your typical corny but fun comic-book style storytelling which I'm completely fine with. No, the most stupid piece of story-writing comes from the fact that I'm somehow supposed to sympathize with Grom Hellscream just because Gul'Dan screwed him over.

Grom quite literally started a genocidal world of trans-dimensional conflict with the intent of killing anyone and anything not part of his perfect Horde idea. No demons blood to stoke his fires this time, no convenient 'demons made me do it' like Blizzard pulled with Warcraft 3, this is a character that freely and of his own will started a conflict with the full intention of committing genocide on multiple species simply because he felt they stood in his way, and for some reason the story in this last patch just completely ignores this fact because 'Lol but Gul'Dan is an even bigger dick!'. Yeah, anyone familiar with the lore has known that since Warcraft 2, Gul'Dan is like the biggest most infamous dick in the entirety of the Warcraft setting, but that doesn't excuse that coming up a close second and with absolutely no plot twist to get him off the hook this time is none other than Chris Metzens personal fetish Grommash Hellscream, who for some god-forsaken reason wasn't immediately thrown in chains and beheaded but instead gets to yell:

"Draenor is FREE!"

like some ridiculous Braveheart wannabe. Free from who? YOU? Gul'Dan was only the final act after Grom's genocidal war failed, the fact that he of all characters is now seen as heroic in this final cinematic is just mind-bogglingly stupid.

As for the next expac, I'm betting on Queen Azshara finally showing up in a South Seas themed expac.

 

[djdomain]

Thinking of what hasn't been wrapped up yet...

- Lich King Bolvar Fordragon, no idea what's gonna happen when he comes out of his popsicle.
- Magatha Grimtotem, no sign of her traitorous hide since Thousand Needles.
- Current Queen Azshara, octopus lady, the naga have kidnapped Neptulon, she wanting to rule the seas in his place?
- Wrathion, he's disappeared somewhere. It was his idea along with the traitor bronze dragon guy to modernize the orcs before they were corrupted in order to defeat the legion, which worked as well as beating a fire out with fuel-soaked log.
- And the standard old gods, burning legion, rogue titans, and their lackey races etc. New face, recycle conflict.

If Sargeras is going to make an appearance anywhere, it would have to be at the end of the franchise.

 

[thetoddo]

I think we're going to get back and the Burning Legion has been tearing up Azeroth while we were gone. The whole Draenor adventure and the Iron Horde attack were staged by Wrathion as a distraction meant only to keep the Heroes away from Azeroth during the initial stages of the invasion.

Had the PCs stayed on Azeroth, Vol'jin and Varian would have sent us off to defend Thousand Needles, Feralas, Stranglethorn and a million other places that were of no real strategic value and we would have died.

By taking the heroes out of the equation, the Alliance and Horde would have to hold and fortify their core territories, setting the stage for when the PCs come back and they can finally go on the offensive. Wrathion failed to destroy either the Alliance or Horde in Mists, so he created a situation where the Alliance and Horde HAVE to fight as one, and with their most powerful warriors still alive...

But it'll probably be naga. :/

 

[LordLundar]

Probably the most sincere thing I can say is you put much more effort into WoW's storyline than Blizzard has of late. They have a tendency of writing themselves into a corner and utilize som Mary Sue or Deus Ex Machina to drag it on.

 

[The Forces of Chaos]

World of warcraft sounds more like world of peacecraft now. To be honest that caused me to leave at Cata. Also isn't is almost always horde that go rogue and become the big bad villains rather than the alliance now? I still remember killing admiral proudmore in warcraft 3 who had more of a better reason than some of current wow villains. Dam I miss the alliance being full of people like Garithos.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

What, really? Gul'Dan just hijacks the story?! Man, I was really hoping for a serious conclusion, not an "Oh, Gul'Dan and the Burning Horde just steal the Story from Garrosh and Grom without attempting to fix anything". I knew that sooner or later the Burning Horde would come to wreck havoc on Draenor, but I wasn't expecting Gul'Dan to open the gates for them! I was hoping that the Iron Horde being overwhelmed by the Real Horde, Real Alliance, the Burning Horde and whatever other forces are fighting them would make Garrosh realize he was corrupted by his power and vision of the Horde and would make him fix his mistake, before allowing himself to either be killed or re-arrested by the Pandaren. This feels like a Cop-out on an epic level.

Still, I'm imagining that certain groups (The Real Horde, the Draenai, some Outland Races) will attempt to steal artifacts or smuggle people who were meant to die, in the main timeline, from this alternative past to the main present. Maybe someone could attempt to, say, save Nobundu before he's corrupted but embraces Shamanism, thus making the Draenai unable to be Shamans? Maybe Thrall will have to hunt down Alt-Grom and Alt-Gul'Dan who will cause havoc on the main timeline? Who knows.

I'm glad I stopped playing WoW though. The story sounds like a mess.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

I stopped buying into Blizzard's bullshit since WotLK hit (mostly because of vikings), so I think the wise thing to do is just stop caring about the story. I cared once and all I got was noxious disappointment. They did the same with Starcraft and Diablo. All of their franchises are pale reflections of what they once was, in the story department that is. Actually, no, the aesthetic Blizzard have cultivated in their newest games is just a castrated version of the seriousness of the first games in the series. I don't know when that happened, maybe Warcraft 3, but that game is awesome soo probably after WoW came out. The cartoonish aesthetic bleeds over into the story department which is just a) weird and b) disappointing.

I suppose it's pointless to ***** about it, because it is what it is. To answer your question - the new Draenor timeline has nothing to do with the main one. It's a separate *dimension* where Grom decided not to drink Manny's blood. How that happens and why haven't we known about anything like this (and how *does* Garrosh know about it) isn't answered. The whole expansion opens plot holes the size of Europa. But as I said - you should probably stop caring, Blizzard stopped a while ago.

Everyone else answered your other questions. I seem to have the urge to vent more, but I don't really have the words. Blizzard do have an opportunity to continue with the critically acclaimed focus and aesthetic of their previous generation, but they choose not to. It's maybe because of Activision, because I refuse to believe that they have suddenly lost their artistic inclinations and I also refuse to believe that they don't know what made their previous games engaging in not only a gameplay sense. Or maybe I'm wrong and they *have* suddenly lost that ability. All their games now just seem to "mainstreamise" *everything* and it's just sad. Art isn't made *for* the mainstream, it's made *despite* it. That sounded hipster bullshit-ish, but it's true. It's even more true in Blizzard's case since they managed to become popular with their serious art direction and focus, so mainstream-ism wasn't the problem.

Still venting... but we have seen that their new direction isn't working. Diablo 3 proved that. They totally missed the point of Diablo in the first place... ok *deep breath*. I will stop venting now.

 

[thetoddo]

@tragedy: Blizzard isn't making art, they're making video games. And they totally answered the how/why of how the events were set in motion, it was just in a book rather than the game itself, which I'm totally with ya is a dumb way to get that exposition out there.

I don't think Blizz's storytelling has regressed at all, if anything it's stayed static while the people who love thier games as kids have become more sophisticated. Look at Star Wars IV-VI and compare it with I-III. The prequel trilogy wasn't worse, both trilogies had hackneyed stories and terrible dialogue. But when I was 6 the classic trilogy burned itself into my brain as cinematic perfection and when I was 20 and the new ones came out I hated them because they were too kid friendly, even though it was the exact same toy in a shinier box.

Same with the Warcraft story, I LOVED Warcraft 1 and 2 (less so 3, but that was gameplay related), but the stories weren't deep, they weren't well told, and the games just don't hold up. That's probably the reason Blizz hasn't re-released those games, so many people loved those games so much and the truth of how primitive they were in gameplay and story would shatter that nostalgia and retroactively ruin your childhood somehow just like the Phantom Menace supposedly did.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

snip

Maybe you are right that Blizzard don't make art, I'm just probably too idealistic to see it. It isn't true about their other games though, since I still play them. Yes, they aren't Shakespearean masterpieces in writing, but they ARE more coherent and serious than the modern offerings. Especially the aesthetic, you can't compare the dark and hopeless landscapes of Diablo 1 and 2 with Diablo 3's nauseatingly castrated version. I don't really know where I'm going with this though, since I'd have to write a whole essay about why Diablo 2 works and 3 doesn't. I'm not blinded by nostalgia, because I still play Starcraft 1 (I'm in the process of playing through the campaigns actually), Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3. I have all of them installed on my PC. (Along with Starcraft 2, which is somewhat better than the other modern adaptations)

I'm probably taking this waaay too seriously, but it is summer and when I don't attend lectures I tend to think about other stuff.

 

[onionpanzer]

I have a feeling this isn't the end of this expansion and that we're going to get another major patch around December and that blizzard is going to launch the new expansion close to the warcraft movie thats coming out next summer

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

I just kind of assumed the gate would stay open and old alternate universe Draenor residents would mingle and trade with modern day Azeroth, in the same way orcs would still just randomly go to outland when they felt like it. The Iron Horde would join up with the Horde, we get new Garrosh and Saurfangs and other cool orcs who have died, it sounds good.

 

[Xeorm]

Well, what I imagine will happen is that we'll get more build up towards another Legion invasion of Azeroth. We had Wrathion in MoP doing his thing trying to build up towards having the alliance takeover so the people of Azeroth could be strong enough to take them on. At the same time there's been comments from Blizzard effectively stating that the twisting nether has only one existence. There is no AU twisting nether, just the one that connects the two realms. Given that Gul'dan doesn't die and is merely sent into the Nether, expect to see him come back for sure.

Wouldn't really mind a demon invasion story anyway. Really tired of the stupid random insanities from the old gods or fantasy racism. Sometimes I just want my foes to be evil and do what they do for selfish reasons like wanting power. Gimme some more of that please.

I think thought that what could have happened with WoD could have been handled much better. The Iron Horde were never really established as good opponents, and the garrisons didn't really turn out as they expected. Could have been handled much better, especially if it were explained better and treated better story-wise. Mostly it wasn't handled with the polish that Blizzard built their reputation on. Such as quest givers not treating you as the commander in tone but like they were used to be treated when we were adventures. Subtle things like that can really change how a game feels.

For reference too with Grom, apparently (as in, explained in side materials like the books) was only told part of the story by Garrosh. Grom was shown that drinking the blood lead to the orcs becoming green and crazy, and showed them entering the portal. Then the vision was cut off, and Garrosh lied saying they were all killed after entering the portal. Which is why Grom did what he did, to protect his race. Sorta. It was handled very badly in-game and the whole thing was pretty stupid. But we'll see.

Mostly the expansion felt story-wise like it only happened in order to resurrect some dead figures and to explore some old stories again. Not exactly bad if done right, as comics especially have shown themselves capable of making those stories go well. XMEN: Days of Future Past even was recent and done in theaters. Could have been done well if they hadn't bungled story telling.

But my money's still on a legion invasion with Gul'dan playing a pivotal role coming up.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Honestly, I dunno, though unlike about... oh, 95% of Blizzard's fanbase, I'm not too-negative towards their writing (though the Thrall storyline in WoD could go fuck itself before he Mary Sues any harder). I wouldn't mind too much of shit going down with the Legion in the wake of Archimonde's defeat (namely a 'Fuck these Azeroth pricks are tough, let's invade 'em), some more Old God/Titan stuff could be explored with the Naga/Emerald Dream/Northrend Sha.

Just, you know, let's not have anymore Orc-focused stories from now on. Seriously. Or at the very least, stop having Thrall show up like a Green Superman. That shit got old in Cataclysm, and irritating in MoP. Give some more Horde characters a little focus for once.

I just kind of assumed the gate would stay open and old alternate universe Draenor residents would mingle and trade with modern day Azeroth, in the same way orcs would still just randomly go to outland when they felt like it. The Iron Horde would join up with the Horde, we get new Garrosh and Saurfangs and other cool orcs who have died, it sounds good.

But the thing is, we'd have two Saurfangs then. Two. That's just too much Saurfang to handle! There wouldn't be any threats left for future expansions, since they'd just double-cleave anything hostile!

Whoops I meant to say new Grom not Garrosh! Cause fuck Garrosh hes like that guy at the gym with the big muscles who still thinks he needs to prove hes stronger than the other guys because no matter how good he is, his inferiority complex always drives him to be a jerk. Grom is awesome though.

Two Saurfangs means we are ready to take on Sargeras next expansion....

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Whoops I meant to say new Grom not Garrosh! Cause fuck Garrosh hes like that guy at the gym with the big muscles who still thinks he needs to prove hes stronger than the other guys because no matter how good he is, his inferiority complex always drives him to be a jerk. Grom is awesome though.

Two Saurfangs means we are ready to take on Sargeras next expansion....

I will say I'm not that opposed to Garrosh - though this is largely due to the difference between how he's handled in the novels and how he's handled in the video game. In the novels, he's an incredibly complex, cunning warrior, out-maneuvering many of his opponents and taking advantage of opportunities quickly and ruthlessly. He still has that hot-blooded nature, inferiority complex and feels the weight of his fathers shadow, but there were many occasions where he showed a genuine care for the orcish race and a strong desire to make them more than a race trying to make up for the horrors they committed during the first and second war. Shit, his conflicts with Thrall were more complex, in the vein of 'Thrall literally runs off to do shit with the elements after putting Garrosh in a position of power he is not prepared for solely because he's the son of Grom' which is a pretty understandable grievance when you've got elemental horrors, twisted cultists and a pissed off Alliance breathing down your neck for two expansions.

In the game, he's a big angry orc who shouts and hits things, and only serves to make Thrall look even more awesome.

Garrosh was - and this is a statement I know many will balk at - a good character with loads of potential. it's just the writers for WoW seriously fucked up with him. Which honestly is really disappointing, 'cause a redemption arc with Garrosh and Saurfang would've been so much more interesting than the bullshit we got with him in WoD (seriously, 'I'mma fight one of the strongest Shamans in existence in Nagrand, the most elementally attuned place in Draenor' is not something he'd actually do even with his in-game characterization).

Fingers crossed they handle Grom better than his son in the coming expansion. Sweet christ, it's like two different characters when you compare book-Garrosh to Game-Garrosh...

Even a well written Garrosh is still a jerk, I wouldnt want to drink a beer with him. In my mind, any character by this point who still wants the horde and alliance to fight is stupid! They've seen the burning legion and all the various other factions that want to end the world. If the Horde and Alliance had a full on war now, no army would be strong enough to save the world.

 

[RJ 17]

I don't really know where I'm going with this though, since I'd have to write a whole essay about why Diablo 2 works and 3 doesn't.

Do iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit! GO! GO! GO! GO!

I love seeing people ***** at what Blizzard has become...mostly because I'm still bitterly chewing sour grapes over their decision to split SCII into three games...which I still say was motivated purely by greed. "But if you're interested in the campaigns, each game's campaign has like 30 missions which is how many there were in SC and BW!" True, but everyone I've spoken to on the matter says that the vast majority of SCII's missions are just bullshit and fluff...and when you boil it down only about 10 missions or so really have any bearing on the story as a whole. You know what else had 10 missions? Each of the campaigns from the original games...allowing each game to have a campaign for each race.

So yeah, when they said "Fuck it, lets split the sequel people have been waiting over a decade for into 3 games and call them "expansions."...that's when I gave up on Blizzard. Judging by what I've heard of their WoW stuff post-BC, I really haven't been missing much. Indeed, they're just not the same company they used to be in terms of good storytelling anymore, and I do think that the merger with Activision likely has something to do with it. I mean how can you really care about where the WoW story is going at this point? Haven't you noticed yet that they're doing the same thing as Assassins Creed in that they're just spinning their tires with the story, dragging it on with meaningless trip until the franchise is no longer economically sound? Only then will they give you The Dark Titan and bring an end to the World...of Warcraft.

Blizzard merges with Activision and all of a sudden it loses the magic it once had.
Squaresoft merges with Enix and all of a sudden it loses the magic it once had.

Coincidence? I think not. Any time two game companies merge together, you might as well say your goodbyes with verything you ever loved about whichever company you were a fan of.