Princss Bubblegum

[EyeReaper]

I don't get it. I really don't. You look at someone like Princess Peach's biggest criticism, that she's a shallow, no personality character who exists solely as a trophy/love interest. We can argue about whether this is true or not, but that is a different opic. I'm here about Princess Bubblegum, from the show Adventure Time, which I'll just assume you've watched. Now, she is definitely not a stereotypical princess, and more falls along the line of a mad scientist if anything. She has a distinct personality, and she is not just there as a love interest. Wanna know what common thought on her is from the fans?
"What a *****. How dare she friendzone the main character! boo-hoo gripe gripe" (That was a paraphrase)
So, can someone please tell me how a princess who breaks all the conventions and tropes be a bad character, yet also someone like Peach be a blight setting feminism back 100 years? or maybe I am just seeing the two extremes because they are the most apparent.

tl;dr: tell me how Princess Bubblegum is a bad character

 

[HoneyVision]

It's all out of context. Princess Peach could be a prize-winning astrophysicist for all we know. And Princess Bubblegum could be a total slut underneath it all. What you see in a text (in this case it's a visual text), is only what the writer allows to be shown. So until we know more about them, we can't say that they're 'bad'.

 

[AgentNein]

Well this is an easy one to answer. Unless I'm way off, there's a good guess the people doing both sets of criticism are in no way the same folks!

I'm almost 100% positive that the folks criticizing the depictions of most princesses in fiction (such as Peach) and the people complaining about Princess Bubblegum "friendzoning" Finn are in no way overlapping.

 

[JohnHayne]

Princess Bubblegum is too old for Finn... There is one episode that she becomes a few years younger and the she totally falls for Finn. As soon as she becomes older again: FRIENDZONE!

EDIT: She's 18, and Finn is around 13.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't like PB as a person, but I don't think she's a bad character at all. One of the best things about adventure time is all of the depth in the world they have, and the way they reveal it to you in tiny bits here and there. The indifference she feels when she literally plays with life and death under a microscope is chilling to say the least.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Princess Bubblegum is too old for Finn... There is one episode that she becomes a few years younger and the she totally falls for Finn. As soon as she becomes older again: FRIENDZONE!

EDIT: She's 18, and Finn is around 13.

Well, bodily, emotionally, and nominally 18, anyway. As Colin implies:

I don't like PB as a person, but I don't think she's a bad character at all. One of the best things about adventure time is all of the depth in the world they have, and the way they reveal it to you in tiny bits here and there. The indifference she feels when she literally plays with life and death under a microscope is chilling to say the least.

There really is a lot of depth to the world. One of the recent episodes kind of implied that she's been around in one form or another since shortly after the Mushroom war, although it was left ambiguous. For that matter, the episode where she was temporarily 13 implied that her age is determined by something other than the passage of time. Adventure Time has more world building going on in the background than a Tolkien novel. Which is why it's really a shame that Cartoon Network stopped with season boxed sets after the first season, this show is meant to be dissected.

 

[Euryalus]

It's all out of context. Princess Peach could be a prize-winning astrophysicist for all we know. And Princess Bubblegum could be a total slut underneath it all. What you see in a text (in this case it's a visual text), is only what the writer allows to be shown. So until we know more about them, we can't say that they're 'bad'.

But as a written character everything that's written on the page is all that's there. We can't look into their psychology in the same way as real people, because its not actually there. There's nothing beyond what's written.

OT: I've honestly never heard that criticism from anyone, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me. This is the internet after all.

That criticism is lame, besides, friend zoning? Isn't she twenty something and he 12? The fuck? I'd be pissed if she didn't "friend zone" him.

 

[Euryalus]

It's all out of context. Princess Peach could be a prize-winning astrophysicist for all we know. And Princess Bubblegum could be a total slut underneath it all. What you see in a text (in this case it's a visual text), is only what the writer allows to be shown. So until we know more about them, we can't say that they're 'bad'.

But as a written character everything that's written on the page is all that's there. We can't look into their psychology in the same way as real people, because its not actually there. There's nothing beyond what's written.

OT: I've honestly never heard that criticism from anyone, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me. This is the internet after all.

That criticism is lame, besides, friend zoning? Isn't she twenty something and he 12? The fuck? I'd be pissed if she didn't "friend zone" him.

You're not very educated, are you?

My comment was not a criticism. It was an observation, and my kind of remark resonates with hundreds of years worth of literary criticism, which you're clearly not aware of.

Also, in response to your first comment: rubbish. A character in any text, whether it's a book, film, video game or fairytale, is as open to critique as any real-life person. Just because their full lives aren't written or revealed it doesn't mean there isn't a possibility for one to exist. It's just that in this case, a huge majority of the characters' personalities are not revealed so we don't have a lot to work with. The writers have only chosen to show us a very narrow side of Peach and Bubblegum.

You don't have to insult my intelligence. I do admit that I'm not immensely familiar with literary theory and mostly go about these discussion with an Aesthetics Philosophy background, but All that I'm saying is that there isn't an objective psychology going on. There aren't thoughts being thought separate from what is said or done in text. I as a person in real life have thoughts independent of what you hear me say or see me do. You can study my behavior to gain insight about what I'm like and how I think. You can do the same by interpreting text, but the difference is that there is nothing else beyond what is presented in the text.

You can't say "Well maybe Princess Peach is really this this or this." I mean yeah she could be, but all that's there is what's presented in the text. She isn't an entity beyond that. All of her existence is in the text. Princess Peach as shown in a lot of the games is for the most part bland and damsel in distress...ey. she doesn't do much. Granted the text can be very subtle and has many ways in which it can espouse potential deeper psychologies as if they were real, but the thing is that information is still taken from the text. That's your evidence for knowing about the character. Speculating on what their psychology could be based on things not present in the text is fancy guesswork about things that aren't objectively there.

 

[Risingblade]

Wait not being a pedophile makes her a *****?

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Wait not being a pedophile makes her a *****?

Theres an episode where she tries telling Finn that for some reason him and Flame Princess can't be together, completely detached and unaware how her breaking the news to him comes across as fucking around with his emotions.

She is a bit of a *****, but I like her mad scientist parts.

 

[Mooboo Magoo]

There really is a lot of depth to the world. One of the recent episodes kind of implied that she's been around in one form or another since shortly after the Mushroom war, although it was left ambiguous. For that matter, the episode where she was temporarily 13 implied that her age is determined by something other than the passage of time. Adventure Time has more world building going on in the background than a Tolkien novel. Which is why it's really a shame that Cartoon Network stopped with season boxed sets after the first season, this show is meant to be dissected.

The good news fairy is here to help!

http://www.amazon.com/Adventure-Time-Complete-Second-Season/dp/B00BDD1UYI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367298446&sr=8-1&keywords=adventure+time+season+2

But anyway, back on topic...

People on the internet are crazy. Like batshit insanity crazy.

 

[Yuno Gasai]

I don't like Princess Bubblegum, but that has nothing to do with her personality and/or archetype. I just.. don't like her.

I vastly prefer Lumpy Space Princess. <3

 

[Euryalus]

Wait not being a pedophile makes her a *****?

Theres an episode where she tries telling Finn that for some reason him and Flame Princess can't be together, completely detached and unaware how her breaking the news to him comes across as fucking around with his emotions.

She is a bit of a *****, but I like her mad scientist parts.

Wasn't the reason that Flame Princess would melt through to the core though?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

There really is a lot of depth to the world. One of the recent episodes kind of implied that she's been around in one form or another since shortly after the Mushroom war, although it was left ambiguous. For that matter, the episode where she was temporarily 13 implied that her age is determined by something other than the passage of time. Adventure Time has more world building going on in the background than a Tolkien novel. Which is why it's really a shame that Cartoon Network stopped with season boxed sets after the first season, this show is meant to be dissected.

The good news fairy is here to help!

http://www.amazon.com/Adventure-Time-Complete-Second-Season/dp/B00BDD1UYI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367298446&sr=8-1&keywords=adventure+time+season+2

But anyway, back on topic...

People on the internet are crazy. Like batshit insanity crazy.

That /is/ good news. I'm about to graduate college. Assuming I can actually get a job, I may have to pick up a certain pair of boxed sets new, just to support the releases.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Wait not being a pedophile makes her a *****?

Theres an episode where she tries telling Finn that for some reason him and Flame Princess can't be together, completely detached and unaware how her breaking the news to him comes across as fucking around with his emotions.

She is a bit of a *****, but I like her mad scientist parts.

Wasn't the reason that Flame Princess would melt through to the core though?

Yes it was.

Still doesn't change the fact that PB should of been aware how it looked. She knew she was Finn's crush.

 

[Snotnarok]

Short reason: Peach is Nintendo, Nintendo is infallible

Long reason: I don't have one I just tie it to most people have insane opinions and I don't pretend to understand them.

 

[Euryalus]

Wait not being a pedophile makes her a *****?

Theres an episode where she tries telling Finn that for some reason him and Flame Princess can't be together, completely detached and unaware how her breaking the news to him comes across as fucking around with his emotions.

She is a bit of a *****, but I like her mad scientist parts.

Wasn't the reason that Flame Princess would melt through to the core though?

Yes it was.

Still doesn't change the fact that PB should of been aware how it looked. She knew she was Finn's crush.

Well to me that makes her seem more of a socially oblivious dolt than a ***** XD

 

[Mikeyfell]

Princess Bubblegum is ... *pause for dramatic effect* NOT a bad character!!

*Yay*
*Applause*
*Cheering*
The peach comparison and the friend zone thing is a weird connection to make.

If Friend zone was a country Mario would be on the flag.

I mean yeah, Bubblegum friend zoned Finn but Finn is a strapping young lad with options.

All Mario does when he's not cart racing is rescue Peach from Bowser. And does Peach ever put out? Fuck no.
Mario bounces around every castle in the Mushroom Kingdom and when he finally finds her what does she do?
Gives him a kiss on the nose and goes off to get kidnapped again!
The vindictive ****.

Bubblegum friend zones Finn because they are friends, at least to her they are

 

[KeyMaster45]

Wait not being a pedophile makes her a *****?

Theres an episode where she tries telling Finn that for some reason him and Flame Princess can't be together, completely detached and unaware how her breaking the news to him comes across as fucking around with his emotions.

She is a bit of a *****, but I like her mad scientist parts.

Wasn't the reason that Flame Princess would melt through to the core though?

Yes it was.

Still doesn't change the fact that PB should of been aware how it looked. She knew she was Finn's crush.

It's hardly her being a ***** and more a break down in communication.

PB was under the impression that all that crush business had been resolved after she'd been returned to her normal age; seeing that Fin had moved on only reinforced that for her. If I remember right, it was Jake who powered that shit storm by convincing Fin she was jealous. Being a ***** would have been if she were actually trying to separate the two out of jealousy. She even straight up explains to both of them early in the episode why it's dangerous for Fin to be seeing Flame Princess. The only reason that didn't sink in is because all three of them are too absorbed in their own little worlds to such communication to work; PB gives a long winded, jargon heavy explanation; Fin doesn't listen because of his short attention span, and Jake doesn't listen because his attention span is even shorter.

In terms of her overall character I don't think she's a ***** at all. What I do think she is, is a young woman who's not only inherited the responsibility of ruling an entire kingdom at an early age but is also such a genius that she plays god with the lives of the very people and land she is supposed to rule over. Further she seems to be the self-appointed custodian of most of Ooo. It's little wonder that she's somewhat out of touch with the emotional perceptions of a 13 year old boy and his dog.

 

[AlexWinter]

It's little wonder that she's somewhat out of touch with the emotional perceptions of a 13 year old boy and his dog.

Hahaha, that's a very good point. She does seem to have some kind of God-complex which is probably why she clashes with Marceline so much who seems to be a lot more liberal. I wonder if PB could ever stray into villainous territory. I'd say she's chaotic good at the moment it would be nice to see her shift into lawful evil for a bit.

Princess Peach isn't really a character she's just a place holder. So is Mario, Luigi, Bowser etc. None of these characters have any personality.

Princess Bubblegum is a character with depth. Strengths, flaws, history and mystery.

They can't really be compared due to the nature of their mediums.