Pro-life

[T8B95]

I would love to see some actual sources because my sources (ranging from the Journal of Medicine to the American Medical Association... and not this google bull shit either, but jounralistic sources that I can't link you to because you don't have a code from my university) say otherwise in reference to the children not being able to feel pain. At the very least, "Consider a Lobster" says otherwise, including a source stating that it takes around 45 seconds for a lobster to die. The essay even goes out of its way to dispel the "urban myth" of the "screams" of a lobster (which I did not mention in my quote - I never claimed lobsters scream, only that they feel pain and react to it), explaining that it is actually sea water escaping the lobsters shell - in particular the shells of newly molted, "soft shell" lobsters, which contain a layer of sea water just under the shell. So, again, would love to hear your sources.

Source for the lobster thing? Working in a kitchen for the last three years, boiling countless lobsters. They squirm for less than a second, and then they're dead.

And by the time that it is legal to abort a child, they haven't developed a central nervous system, or even a proper brain yet. They aren't capable of feeling pain.

 

[Erttheking]

I am pro-choice... Main reason? Because THERE ARE ALREADY TOO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET, anything we can do to keep the FUCKING population down (even if it's just a little bit).
Also, I don't want anymore illegitimate bastard children and/or their parents on my fucking TAX dollar, I would much rather my taxes go to an abortion paid for by the government than fucking support someones fucking kid for 18 years because they cant fucking afford it.
Also, children are fucking leeches ALL of them... if some fucking woman doesn't want some fucking PARASITE leeching off of them for the next 18 and 3/4 years, then I say MORE FUCKING POWER TO THEM, give them a fucking medal, applaud them if necessary.
Lastly, for all of you fucksticks who are going to say "You were a child once too!" or "if you think the world is so overpopulated, why don't you kill yourself", you know what I have to say to you sir/madam? Eat a dick.

For the love of God buddy, calm down. Yes, people have different opinions than you, this is not new. Also if you think the world is so overpopulated, why don't we pull a China and pass birth laws and make having more than one child punishable...no I will not eat a dick, grow up. You seriously need to calm down. Also, I can understand why some people have different views, but there's a difference between allowing abortion, and saying that women should be applauded for it...seriously you want women to get medals for terminating their unborn children? Thats...unsettling.

BTW: Once again, why isn't this thread in religion and politics?

 

[mental_looney]

Pro choice. I don't want to see everyone getting abortions but prevention of pregnancy is better but accidents can happen.

 

[jdun]

It pretty amazing how young women are brainwashed into thinking that is alright to murder her own child in the context that it is not alive. The Pro-Choice movement keep trying convince young women to come into their money making abortion clinics and have abortion. The Pro-Choice movement care nothing about women or their babies. All they care about is their money.

Killing your unborn child is murder. Plain and simple.

 

[jdun]

Pro choice. I don't want to see everyone getting abortions but prevention of pregnancy is better but accidents can happen.

It's called responsibility. You fuck up you man up. Murdering your own child because you can't handle responsibilities is disgusting.

 

[anthony87]

It pretty amazing how young women are brainwashed into thinking that is alright to murder her own child in the context that it is not alive. The Pro-Choice movement keep trying convince young women to come into their money making abortion clinics and have abortion. The Pro-Choice movement care nothing about women or their babies. All they care about is their money.

Killing your unborn child is murder. Plain and simple.

Good thing we're not talking about killing unborn children then isn't it? We're talking about killing an undeveloped mass of cells that are just taking up space.

 

[Imat]

All I'll say on the matter is I'm glad my mom didn't choose to kill me in the womb.

I'd say it's questionable wheter it qualifies as 'you' for at least a fair period of time in the womb. Is it, in fact a person? It seems to lack the necessary mental faculties for the most part.

Also if your mom chose to have an abortion you wouldn't ever have cared because you wouldn't have been born.

So a person is defined as having some unstated amount of "necessary" mental faculties to you. So people who have to "pull the plug" on a loved one who is brain dead shouldn't feel sad about it at all, the thing on the bed is not, in fact, a person. Those people who cannot function on their own are not, in fact, people, and we shouldn't treat them as such. I feel like your argument is flawed in many ways.

To me a person comes into being as soon as the egg gets fertilized. The building blocks of a person are there, the dna of a person is there, just because it can't recite the alphabet doesn't mean it ain't a person. But I believe in choice. Who am I to interfere in the business of others? Just because the child could be put up for adoption, leaving the parent(s) with no responsibility, doesn't mean that abortion isn't a completely logical choice. I, personally, do not accept abortion as an alternative. What other people do to their unborn people is up to them.

 

[ShadowStar42]

It is true that the branding of the anti-abortion stance as "pro-life" is deliberately meant to make it sound more reasonable. However I would say the branding of the pro-abortion stance as "pro-choice" is basically the same thing, after all, people wouldn't support something called "pro-the right to murder unborn babies" would they?

I actually disagree with this on both points, but I'll just address the Pro-Choice side since, well that's the side I'm on.

Almost no one on Earth is pro-abortion, we pro-choicers don't like abortion at all as a matter of fact. We see it as an unfortunate choice thrust on a woman but we believe that it is her choice to make. Most pro-choice people would counsel against abortion if ever faced with someone debating it but we would conceit that it was not our choice to make. Saying that Pro-Choicers are Pro-Abortion is akin to saying that supporters of Euthanasia are pro-Old People Murder.

The fundamental argument in the Pro-Choice/Pro-Life debate is whether or not abortion is murder, that isn't a given in this argument. When a conceived zygote becomes a Person is up for debate, and even most pro-choice advocates don't believe that life starts at birth, but rather that it starts are roughly the beginning of the 3rd trimester (at which point the baby could potentially survive if birthed immediately).

The argument that person hood begins at conception fails for me for a number of reason (the inability to survive independently being primary of them) but one thing to consider is the legal implications. If person hood starts at conception then a woman's rights become largely void at the same point. If the woman drinks, smokes, participates in sports or even fails to maintain a health diet she becomes guilty of reckless endangerment at least and potentially manslaughter or negligent homicide. If the woman lives in an unhealthy environment she would be legally required to move, whether she could afford to do so or not. Really the implications are far reaching.

 

[Chemical Alia]

If it makes any sense, I'm pro-choice, but against abortion.

I feel that it's wasted potential. But I would never fight to stop someone from having one. I would just warn them that any regrets they have will be terrible and irrevocable.

It's good that you wouldn't try to stop someone who wants an abortion from having one. But do you really thing that some people don't experience the same regret after pregnancy and having a kid? Everyone handles things in different ways, and no one wants to be patronized.

 

[Xanadu84]

I'm pro choice, but pro life does not need to require sexism anymore then pro choice requires a hatred of babies. Pro lifers believe that a fetus is alive. Consciousness is a sticky subject, so how can we call that crazy? Now going from that reasonable but wrong assumption, we arrive at the conclusion that abortion is murdering a tiny, helpless, otherwise healthy human being. Look at it from there reasonable but wrong perspective. Should a woman have the right to kill a child? Of course not. Pro choicers simply see that that thing is not a child.

You know what's screwed up? Pro choicers make a big deal about lifers who are against abortion in cases of rape and incest, but really, the lifers that accept abortions in the case of rape are the creepy ones. Murder is okay if it lets you ignore an uncomfortable enough truth? Hell, at least the hardliners are consistent in matters of life and death.

Again, I'm pro choice. But the lifers arnt the monsters they are made out to be.

 

[jdun]

It pretty amazing how young women are brainwashed into thinking that is alright to murder her own child in the context that it is not alive. The Pro-Choice movement keep trying convince young women to come into their money making abortion clinics and have abortion. The Pro-Choice movement care nothing about women or their babies. All they care about is their money.

Killing your unborn child is murder. Plain and simple.

Good thing we're not talking about killing unborn children then isn't it? We're talking about killing an undeveloped mass of cells that are just taking up space.

That's a excuse that the Pro-Choice movement keep making to convince young women into letting them kill their babies for money.

 

[ZeroMachine]

If it makes any sense, I'm pro-choice, but against abortion.

I feel that it's wasted potential. But I would never fight to stop someone from having one. I would just warn them that any regrets they have will be terrible and irrevocable.

It's good that you wouldn't try to stop someone who wants an abortion from having one. But do you really thing that some people don't experience the same regret after pregnancy and having a kid? Everyone handles things in different ways, and no one wants to be patronized.

Of course not, I'm not that dense

But would you rather regret creating a life or regret preventing one?

If you have the kid, and you regret it, at the very least on average you can take solace in the fact that the kid may end up a good person living a normal life.

If you DON'T have the kid and regret it, you have NOTHING that you can look at for a bright side. Nothing truly substantial, at least.

Obviously it differs on a case to case basis. That's how the world works. I simply meant "IF you have regrets, there will be nothing you can do. You can't change an abortion. It's a one way deal."

 

[anthony87]

It pretty amazing how young women are brainwashed into thinking that is alright to murder her own child in the context that it is not alive. The Pro-Choice movement keep trying convince young women to come into their money making abortion clinics and have abortion. The Pro-Choice movement care nothing about women or their babies. All they care about is their money.

Killing your unborn child is murder. Plain and simple.

Good thing we're not talking about killing unborn children then isn't it? We're talking about killing an undeveloped mass of cells that are just taking up space.

That's a excuse that the Pro-Choice movement keep making to convince young women into letting them kill their babies for money.

Awh bless...he knows how to generalise. Even if that generalisation is horribly wrong.

What makes you think that pro-choice people are simply all about convincing mothers to kill their unborn children? I mean what they're about is right there in the name "PRO-CHOICE".

choice/CHois/
Noun:
An act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities.

If pro-choice people really were the way you think of them, then they wouldn't be called pro-choice. They'd be called pro-let's kill all the babies.

 

[ZeroMachine]

I'm pro choice, but pro life does not need to require sexism anymore then pro choice requires a hatred of babies. Pro lifers believe that a fetus is alive. Consciousness is a sticky subject, so how can we call that crazy? Now going from that reasonable but wrong assumption, we arrive at the conclusion that abortion is murdering a tiny, helpless, otherwise healthy human being. Look at it from there reasonable but wrong perspective. Should a woman have the right to kill a child? Of course not. Pro choicers simply see that that thing is not a child.

You know what's screwed up? Pro choicers make a big deal about lifers who are against abortion in cases of rape and incest, but really, the lifers that accept abortions in the case of rape are the creepy ones. Murder is okay if it lets you ignore an uncomfortable enough truth? Hell, at least the hardliners are consistent in matters of life and death.

Again, I'm pro choice. But the lifers arnt the monsters they are made out to be.

FUCKING THANK YOU.

It's rare I see someone speak with such logic on that matter.

Seriously, god damn, you just made my day. I'm not a straight up pro-lifer, but even I hate it when I see how much they're demonized.

 

[Dan Steele]

I would rather have a woman get an abortion in a sanitary doctors office than have it be outlawed and she dies days later from bacterial infection because she got an abortion in an alleyway from a black market doctor

 

[Thaius]

Regardless of where one stands on the issue of Pro-Life vs. Pro Choice, this way of looking at it is painfully blatant pandering semantics. The term "Pro-Life" is specifically referring to the issue of abortion; to say it's an illegitimate stance because the term is far more broad out of context is just stupid and completely invalid in this argument.

 

[T8B95]

All I'll say on the matter is I'm glad my mom didn't choose to kill me in the womb.

I'd say it's questionable wheter it qualifies as 'you' for at least a fair period of time in the womb. Is it, in fact a person? It seems to lack the necessary mental faculties for the most part.

Also if your mom chose to have an abortion you wouldn't ever have cared because you wouldn't have been born.

So a person is defined as having some unstated amount of "necessary" mental faculties to you. So people who have to "pull the plug" on a loved one who is brain dead shouldn't feel sad about it at all, the thing on the bed is not, in fact, a person. Those people who cannot function on their own are not, in fact, people, and we shouldn't treat them as such. I feel like your argument is flawed in many ways.

To me a person comes into being as soon as the egg gets fertilized. The building blocks of a person are there, the dna of a person is there, just because it can't recite the alphabet doesn't mean it ain't a person. But I believe in choice. Who am I to interfere in the business of others? Just because the child could be put up for adoption, leaving the parent(s) with no responsibility, doesn't mean that abortion isn't a completely logical choice. I, personally, do not accept abortion as an alternative. What other people do to their unborn people is up to them.

What about all those fertilized eggs that don't stick in the womb? Are they people? Should they be counted? So you're saying that my cousin's girlfriend is a serial murderer because she has a deficient uterus and all of the eggs that get fertilized merely pass out of her system?

You see, I can make ridiculous statements too.

Maybe necessary mental faculties don't make a person, but there are other things that certainly do, a brain and a heart being chief among them. Since those aren't present at fertilization, the fetus can't be called a person, can it?

 

[TheDarkestDerp]

Thoughts? Okeedoke...

Carlin made some brilliant and insightful observations.
I agree with most of them.
"Pro-life" is a ridiculous term coined by spin-doctors (not THE Spin Doctors) and politicos to put a positive face on their confrontational attitude.
Pistachio ice cream tastes delicious.
Prinnies are awesome.
I like cake, but I like pie much MUCH more.
I sometimes miss my ex, but not the tremendous baggage she carried or the cheating...
The Smurfs was a movie that should never have been made.
I'm getting off topic.
I'm going to go back to getting dressed now...

 

[chadachada123]

"Pro-life" is definitely the wrong word.

My dad is pro-life and also pro-choice. He thinks that abortion is morally reprehensible but that it is not the government's business.

I, on the other hand, am both pro-choice and ALSO pro-abortion. I support abortions and find it morally reprehensible to NOT get one if you aren't absolutely committed to raising a child.

 

[bojackx]

The odds are that I'm just being stupid, but I didn't at all get the idea that this thread was about abortion until I saw the replies...

I'm all for women getting the choice. I wouldn't say it's really alive until a least a few months.