Problem with the DC universe

Recommended Videos

Relish in Chaos

New member
Mar 7, 2012
2,658
0
0
You know, there's one problem that I have with the DC universe, or specifically, Batman and Superman's shared universe. I know that a demigod existing in a semi-realistic but still fantastical world (which is what Gotham City is) was somewhat addressed with Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen, but it seemed to be more because
Dr. Manhattan just ceased to give a crap about Earth anymore, and when he went, everything went down the shitter. But the fact of the matter is, when he turned up and started working for the government, he continuously won wars for the US and kept Russia in check.

But in the DC universe - and yes, I know this was explored (although not enough, since, at the end of the day, it's still a comic book; you've got to suspend your disbelief sometimes) in The Dark Knight Returns too, so that can kind of count, even if it's non-canon - I've never gotten why Superman, who's unlike Manhattan in that he's the ultimate boy scout who wants to do good for Earth, couldn't just fly into Gotham City and tell the criminal underworld to fuck off or he'll threaten to laser their shit up. I know that Supes isn't the threatening type, but come on, if he's the government's *****, they could surely persuade him to do it, for the greater good.

And it wouldn't take much for him to just make some kind of TV appearance or appear to Carmine Falcone and say, "Stop doing crime, or I'll kill you and the rest of you crooks." And then do the same thing to the nutjobs in Arkham Asylum. There, problem solved. Then he can go back to fighting off supervillains that actually pose a threat to him in his own city, while Batman can just retire and not have to look like such an underpowered but still haxxed character alongside such superheroes as Superman and Wonder Woman in the Justice League.
 

Queen Michael

has read 4,010 manga books
Jun 9, 2009
10,397
0
0
It's because Superman stays out of Gotham. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SupermanStaysOutOfGotham]
 

Scarim Coral

Jumped the ship
Legacy
Oct 29, 2010
18,149
2
3
Country
UK
Simple, that wouldn't be a good comic book to read if you just have Superman just leap through the conclusion and removing the conflict that would of normally happened.
I mean yes, what you had suggested is more logical (more peace to Gotham) but at the end of the day, it's still a comicbook with fans reading it.
 

Relish in Chaos

New member
Mar 7, 2012
2,658
0
0
Yeah, that's probably the same reason that Arkham Asylum has such piss-poor security that allows the Joker and co. to walk in and out of it like a revolving door. For a medium that has a 70+ year-long history, I guess it will have to take creative liberties to keep it going.

But if I was a citizen living in Gotham, I'd be real pissed that Superman, Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern apparently couldn't take one minute out of their day to swoop in and threaten the criminal underworld into oblivion, negating the need for Batman at all.
 

JimB

New member
Apr 1, 2012
2,180
0
0
The only way to stop the criminal underworld is to kill all the criminals; and leaving aside the moral hypocrisy of killing a killer, there is no way any government on the planet Earth would not nuke to ash anywhere someone like Superman, Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern was standing if they decided they get to decide who on planet Earth deserves to live and who deserves to die.
 

Relish in Chaos

New member
Mar 7, 2012
2,658
0
0
JimB said:
The only way to stop the criminal underworld is to kill all the criminals; and leaving aside the moral hypocrisy of killing a killer, there is no way any government on the planet Earth would not nuke to ash anywhere someone like Superman, Wonder Woman, or Green Lantern was standing if they decided they get to decide who on planet Earth deserves to live and who deserves to die.
So you don't think Superman (who can probably survive any nuke on Earth anyway) threatening the criminal underworld wouldn't just stop, or at least severely limit, the problem?
 

JimB

New member
Apr 1, 2012
2,180
0
0
Relish in Chaos said:
So you don't think Superman (who can probably survive any nuke on Earth anyway)[...]
He probably can, but once Superman decides he's the arbiter of life and death, he's declared himself God, and he becomes a threat you absolutely gotta put down no matter what.

Relish in Chaos said:
[...]threatening the criminal underworld wouldn't just stop, or at least severely limit, the problem?
Crime isn't committed for love of evil, you know. Most of it's committed for necessity; when the impoverished find themselves in need, they take what they need. Then those who are in a slightly better position realize there are lucrative business opportunities, and they subsidize crime, making it a profitable business. So no, I don't think empty threats will work, because people keep turning to crime because it fills needs and desires people have. To get rid of it, you have to either solve the underlying poverty issues or else prove that you will take away needs and desires more basic than those being supplied by crime: in short, the need to live.
 

Syzygy23

New member
Sep 20, 2010
824
0
0
Scarim Coral said:
Simple, that wouldn't be a good comic book to read if you just have Superman just leap through the conclusion and removing the conflict that would of normally happened.
I mean yes, what you had suggested is more logical (more peace to Gotham) but at the end of the day, it's still a comicbook with fans reading it.
Actually, I think that WOULD be a good comic book.

Batman has to deal the fact that even with all his training and hi tech gadgets, he is an obsolete relic in the face of Superman. That could start up a story arc about his inevitable downward spiral of depression as he no longer has any crime to fight or criminals to worry about.

JimB said:
Relish in Chaos said:
So you don't think Superman (who can probably survive any nuke on Earth anyway)[...]
He probably can, but once Superman decides he's the arbiter of life and death, he's declared himself God, and he becomes a threat you absolutely gotta put down no matter what.

Relish in Chaos said:
[...]threatening the criminal underworld wouldn't just stop, or at least severely limit, the problem?
Crime isn't committed for love of evil, you know. Most of it's committed for necessity; when the impoverished find themselves in need, they take what they need. Then those who are in a slightly better position realize there are lucrative business opportunities, and they subsidize crime, making it a profitable business. So no, I don't think empty threats will work, because people keep turning to crime because it fills needs and desires people have. To get rid of it, you have to either solve the underlying poverty issues or else prove that you will take away needs and desires more basic than those being supplied by crime: in short, the need to live.
I think he means more along the lines of Lex Luthor style evil, something born from obsession or some sort of mental imbalance.
 

Hero in a half shell

It's not easy being green
Dec 30, 2009
4,285
0
0
Syzygy23 said:
Scarim Coral said:
Simple, that wouldn't be a good comic book to read if you just have Superman just leap through the conclusion and removing the conflict that would of normally happened.
I mean yes, what you had suggested is more logical (more peace to Gotham) but at the end of the day, it's still a comicbook with fans reading it.
Actually, I think that WOULD be a good comic book.

Batman has to deal the fact that even with all his training and hi tech gadgets, he is an obsolete relic in the face of Superman. That could start up a story arc about his inevitable downward spiral of depression as he no longer has any crime to fight or criminals to worry about.
That would be interesting.

I think the reason Superman generally doesn't bother with street level crime is that he is too busy defending earth from asteroids, and other evil superpowered beings that want to destroy earth. He always has much bigger things that require his attention. Sure he'll help someone falling from a building or trapped in a housefire if he's in the vicinity and there's no one else that can help, but if he tried to save everyone all of the time, then he would tire himself out, he'd never get a seconds peace, and most importantly what would happen to the world when Superman is otherwise occupied, or eventually when he gets too old to fight crime.

Superman can't save everyone, and he knows there will come a time when it cannot rely on him to swoop in and save it, so he tries to lead humanity to save itself by acting as a good example. He's always fronting as this absolute pure and benevolent being that encourages the rest of humanity to be just like him, and sometimes he messes up, sometimes the pressure gets to him, humanity continues to act like a self-destructive cesspool of hate, but he'll keep up the charade, he'll keep trying to make people better, because in the end humanity will have to look after itself. Give a man a fish and all that.

Although The Dark Knight Rises would have been a much more... interesting film, if just as the City Hall finale scene started a blue blur flew in and pummelled Bane to a pulp, locked up all the criminals again, and threw the bomb into the sun before Batman had a chance to fire the guns on his Batwing.
 

JimB

New member
Apr 1, 2012
2,180
0
0
Syzygy23 said:
I think he means more along the lines of Lex Luthor style evil, something born from obsession or some sort of mental imbalance.
In that case, it kind of becomes impossible to answer. Logical people would obviously choose not to piss off God when God says he'll smite them if they don't leave Gotham, but obsessed and imbalanced people are, by definition, not logical, so who knows?
 

GiantRaven

New member
Dec 5, 2010
2,422
0
0
Scarim Coral said:
Simple, that wouldn't be a good comic book to read if you just have Superman just leap through the conclusion and removing the conflict that would of normally happened.
That happened in an issue of Green Arrow when he was facing down a bunch of people turned into monsters. He didn't take it too kindly.