Problems you have had to face because of your gender

[Fox12]

I hate the masculine ideal that men are held too. I got a LOT of shit in high school over this, back when I was obese. Guys treated me pretty bad because I was perceived as weak, and groups of them would attempt to intimidate me. I would also get hate from some women, since I was not evidently attractive enough to talk to them (even though I was non flirtatious, and only wanted to talk about something school related). This was a minority case with a few very select individuals, but it did happen, which stings at that age.

Now, the weird thing is that all of this changed after I lost about a hundred pounds and got in shape. I didn't really change as a person, so I'm forced to assume it was all physical. My freshman year of college was one of the best in my life. I had a large group of really close friends, suddenly women were approaching ME, and I was in a relationship with a nice girl. I was genuinely happy. We went on road trips. We hung out until morning. We went to parties. Life was pretty good, and I was accepted. But I'll never forget how I was disrespected in highschool because of how I looked, and, frankly, that's fucked up. People grow up, and change, and it doesn't really bother me anymore. But I do find this sad. I imagine women deal something similar, especially if they don't fit society's ideals of beauty, though the details may be different.

Otherwise, I hate the old "science and math are for boys, and art and English are for girls." I find this offensive to both genders, yet I remember teachers telling us this at a young age.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Born male so when I wanted my ear pierced...well, I want my ears pierced. I was given a good reason to keep dangling bits of metal out of my ears though. I still grew out my hair though and even though my hair is about as long as Sephiroths I haven't been given too much grief about it (except for my 4-year old nephew who tells me I look like a girl but again, he's 4). There's also the whole thing about not being allowed to cry which was easy enough to hide when I had to. There's really nothing too bad...a lot of it could just be self-projected restrictions. I would love to be a stay-at-home husband in future for instance and I see that as being a matter-of-time thing. There are even more minor things...I really like the deeper shades of the color purple, and I'd love to wear skirts at some point, but that could attract negative attention if done publicly.

 

[the December King]

If you have any other ways to get people to talk about gender issues without clawing at each others throats and getting into the Oppression Olympics I'll be happy to hear it. I'm not being sarcastic, I honestly would. I'm at the end of my rope here. This is all I got.

here's the thing though

you can't

I mean maybe I'm just cynical and have don't suffer the BS I see time and time again on a lot of online spaces but the its aggressive or "lets all sit around the campfire of equality singing kumbya" when people operate on entirely different base assumptions there is not a lot you can do

it doesn't matter how many sexist things I point out there will be an army of people to counter it with some derailing point either "it affects men too" or "yeah but go make your own games/its not sexist/no one cares"

because its not as easy as saying "I'm not sexist", it actually requires people to rethink some things they take for granted....and that's haaaaarrrrd and it gets people emotions going

I dunno, Vault- this thread seems to be doing quite well so far, I think.

 

[Vault101]

I dunno, Vault- this thread seems to be doing quite well so far, I think.

thankfully yes, because we're just recounting personal experience...not debating it

 

[the December King]

I dunno, Vault- this thread seems to be doing quite well so far, I think.

thankfully yes, because we're just recounting personal experience...not debating it

Touche!

For now, this seems like the safest and most illuminating way to show others what it can be like to be someone else- the personal experience. When stats and 'facts' get hauled out, they can cause a lot of people to go on the defensive, I find. Now, another person's experience might not necessarily be an accurate reflection of their entire sex or race, but over time these kinds of threads might move closer to that parity naturally, I think, based on attrition.

All someone needs to do is listen(read).

 

[cleric of the order]

Why do we need to be fixated on SEXES or gender for that matter, there are a number of infinitely divisible ways people are affected in general.
I am more or less numb to these sorts of things, things will happen and things will go.
That might just be ASD or the Dysthymia or something.
I've often found my ASD (autism) is the cause of confusion within conversation and I can be a bit of an embarrassment in public once I've started going but really hasn't been to bad.
But for gender that's a weird thing.
How can I explain it.
I secretly worshiped the feminine.
Weird statement no? but it's the only way to describe it, I've been told all my life by morons that men don't cry there for you should cry all the time because it's alright to. It's a curious social Development (and I blame Gloria Steinem), one would have never expected that one would pressure themselves to emote but that has been my problem. Further more I've always been told that men are brutish, violent, simple and sexual creatures by the media and the world at large and until recently when I was taught the positive sides of masculinity.
I feel like I'm writing from some bizarro world, but this is what I see in front of me.
The bold, simple truth of the matter was that from either my poor relationship with my father or feminism/media/socitalexpectationsgonestupid I hated the nature of my biology. whether it was when I designated desirable traits and habits within my psyche as being feminine or relishing over the fact that a lot of my creations were and are female (no idea how that happens it just did) [there is more reasoning here I just don't want to go any further down this road, it's a bit creepy].
It's all beyond my ken, I just think that we should drop the gender, race and the like shit, we are the most tolerant generation let's just get along, spend time talking about what we enjoy.

(If you have anything less than pleasant to say to anyone because of your political views, this thread isn't for you)

There's plenty of bullshit I have to go through as a guy. People always assume that I play sports because I'm big, something that has made me honestly consider getting a t-shirt that says "I'm 6'5, no I don't play basketball, you can stop fucking asking". I suffer from bouts of depression and it always hurts the most when I'm in public and the feel the pressure not to cry. It's frustrating because I KNOW it's bullshit but I still don't want to go through the embarrassment of crying in public. Oh and god help me if I get associated with anything pink or girly, God help me if I admit I'm a fan of a good well written and honest romance and I'm not a fan of Harems where there aren't an emotional attachment, I'll get accusations of being "queer" thrown at me faster than I can blink. Also I'm supposed to be insulted by that.

Dude there ain't nothing wrong with liking good romance or scratch that romance at all.
Announcing it's the problem, if done in conversation and casually then you aren't spilling your spaghetti everywhere. It just needs to flow from what I've seen.
also I'm not sure if you sought help for the bouts of depression, if it's that consistent you might have a seasonal disorder, like uh the ironically named Seasonal Affective Disorder. Seriously get that checked out.

And keep civil for god's sake. I know the forums are pretty vicious nowadays, so be nice. There are plenty of other threads out there to be angry in.

Just for the record, there are a lot of people that keep on about gender or sex or what have you.
We are a nerdy place, it's fine in moderation but..... forgive me for not thinking about gender or sex in my normal day to day life.
Occasionally I remember orks are great and they might be the darkest reflections of maleness but they are still damn cool and I'm going to wipe up a deathAxe clan when I can.

 

[Vault101]

[snip

that is true...although listening is very hard for some people

 

[gLoveofLove]

If you have any other ways to get people to talk about gender issues without clawing at each others throats and getting into the Oppression Olympics I'll be happy to hear it. I'm not being sarcastic, I honestly would. I'm at the end of my rope here. This is all I got.

here's the thing though

you can't

I mean maybe I'm just cynical and have don't suffer the BS I see time and time again on a lot of online spaces but the its aggressive or "lets all sit around the campfire of equality singing kumbya" when people operate on entirely different base assumptions there is not a lot you can do

it doesn't matter how many sexist things I point out there will be an army of people to counter it with some derailing point either "it affects men too" or "yeah but go make your own games/its not sexist/no one cares"

because its not as easy as saying "I'm not sexist", it actually requires people to rethink some things they take for granted....and that's haaaaarrrrd and it gets people emotions going

I dunno, Vault- this thread seems to be doing quite well so far, I think.

I agree. I see a group of people discussing their gender-based issues without trying to top or discredit others'(with perhaps one exception).

Pointing out that a particular issue affects different genders too in itself isn't derailing though. It's broadening the scope. Debating the validity of an argument is not derailing the topic. And if someone is claiming that a particular issue is a gendered one, then saying that it affects other genders too is arguing against that.

 

[lacktheknack]

Suffice to say, being regarded as threatening or potentially threatening by those toward whom one has only the gentlest of intentions, if any intentions at all, is not the greatest thing ever.

This. "Are... are you sure it's safe to let him sleep in the same building as my daughter?" ;_____;

Other than that, though? I've been really lucky. I'm sure I've greatly disappointed people who had certain expectations about men everywhere, but they don't tell me to my face. I strike people as unapproachable.

 

[DjinnFor]

I agree. I see a group of people discussing their gender-based issues without trying to top or discredit others'(with perhaps one exception).

You don't have to beat around the bush. You can just say it.

And yes, it is a serious fucking gender-based problem to be told to "Shut up and Listen" [TM] to someone recount how fucking sad it is to, for example, be "harassed" by "over 100 guys in 10 hours" when the truth is you'd consider such treatment an improvement.

To acknowledge the pain and suffering of society collectively saying "fuck you, we have less important things to care about" necessarily requires me to point out the hypocrisy and get a little mad about the double standards once in a while.

Pointing out that a particular issue affects different genders too in itself isn't derailing though. It's broadening the scope. Debating the validity of an argument is not derailing the topic. And if someone is claiming that a particular issue is a gendered one, then saying that it affects other genders too is arguing against that.

You don't seem to get it. Whinny children do not want to acknowledge that the problems of others may be just as bad as theirs if not worse, nor do they particularly feel the need to personally address the problems that they may face through any amount of introspection, which acknowledging the worse situations of others necessarily entails. Whinny children simply want to whine and be coddled by a parental figure who solves all of their problems for them.

So yes, it is derailing when you stop focusing on their first world inconveniences and talk about actual problems for a change, because you're preventing others from taking their whining seriously and distracting from the focus being exclusively on them to feed their narcissistic and childish need for attention and validation.

 

[Anja Bech]

Dressing up. I can't count the number of times my mum, sister, aunt and stepfather have kinda badgered me, trying to get me to wear makeup and a dress to a family thing. I can't count the number of times I've been advised to basically be prettier in order to get a man (not withstanding the fact that I'm bi and hey, I might want to attract a woman). My aunt actually said that if I wore my super hero shirt (she doesn't know what Marvel is) I would never get a new boy friend. That was while I was in the summer house with my family. There were no people my age anywhere near the place, but apparently I should be thinking about snatching a man even if there aren't anyone around... I can't count the number of times girls have asked me why I don't wear makeup, why I don't wear (insert any kind of feminine clothing), why I don't dye my eyebrows (they are practically invisible) and so on. It's like people look at a girl without makeup in a t-shirt and jeans and think "Jesus! Why isn't she doing all these girly things to attract a man?"

I cut my hair short and dye it. Every time I've dyed it blue, pink, purple or green, people treat me as if I've decided to put on a "Don't date me!" sign on my chest. I dye it because I happen to like those colors and think I look awesome with my short rainbow, but apparently, it's treated by other women and older people as if I've sprayed myself with man-repellant.

I have been groped, fondled, catcalled, kissed, grabbed, pulled and other lovely invasions of my private sphere because a guy, sometimes way, way older than me, wanted my attention or just felt like touching me. This has happened a few times with women as well, but I can count those times on one hand. Seriously, I'm not even that attractive.

I have been talked down to most of my life because I've always been small and kind of meek. I liked carrying heavy things as a kid and I was one of the only girls who could do push-up, but people would look at me and go "naw, you can't life these book, we'll get one of the big strong boys to do it instead." Even though there isn't a significant difference in physical strength before puberty, people told me I was weak and bullied me. People still look at me and think it's adorable that I box and think I'm cute when I get angry. I'm fairly sure that if I was a guy people wouldn't be awing when I got angry. Some people might disagree with this guess, but I feel like I have been belittled precisely due to my gender, and in part due to my size.

When I told people I moved to a neighborhood called Gellerup, which is know to be a slightly more troubled part of the city I live in, though, honestly, Denmark doesn't really have a ghetto, I've been warned not to walk home by myself after nightfall (right now it gets dark around 6 pm), and I've been warned not to go outside at all because dem darn foreigner will rape you cos you's got purdy blonde hair and white skin. My ex wasn't comfortable with me going for a walk on my own after dark, even though I've been doing that since I was 13-14 years old, because he was afraid I'd get raped. Same with my evening runs. I've been told to self-impose restrictions to my freedom of movement, behavior, dress and speech to protect myself from assault.

Since I was able to comprehend danger, I've been warned by the media and most of those around me that I, as a woman, am in pretty much constant danger of being raped, and that men want to harm. It's hard not to let that get to you, but I made a decision as a teenager that I would face those ingrained fears everyday by not cowering at imagined dangers, but assume that men actually don't want to harm me. I've been proved wrong a few times, but I've been proved right so many more times.

I still feel the clutch of irrational fear when I'm walking on my own and a group of young men, or one very big man, comes towards me, or it I'm out partying and a very drunk man demands my attention, but it's so much harder to rid yourself of fears than it is to not act on them. I do the later, hopefully the fear will vanish eventually.

 

[Sabine Blochberger]

Worst thing to happen to me in the last year was being fired because a male collegue couldn't handle a woman being his equal (or, god forbid, better). Our competences didn't even overlap, yet he went complaining to our boss behind my back.

I'm not sure about where you're from, but you can likely file for a wrongful firing. Or something similar. If that's truly what happened.

I did take it to court, and at least I got some recompense. Now I was under a lot of stress leading up to the day I got fired, so my wits weren't really about me. I also got sick leave for stress/mobbing related issues for the rest of my contract, so I also didn't have to deal with them any more.

It was all just unnecessary bs. Because patriarchy.

 

[Baron von Blitztank]

Any kind of bollock related injury. Ye Gods, those hurt!

 

[Ramzal]

I can't work in early childhood education as a male because I will be looked at as a weirdo/pedophile. I worked at a summer camp and I was jokingly accused to liking an under aged camper which turned into a full scale investigation. How did all of this happen? Cause the other kids were making fun of her to the point of making her cry and I took her to the side and talked to her until she felt better and was smiling when I brought her back.

And the ones who accused me outright were all female staff/employees. I'd rather never go through that again. Thus why my future will be spent in a lab away from stupid and overly bored people.

 

[Mr Fixit]

Well other than the standard "are you gay" bullshit from the idiots I went to high school with, because I didn't try to screw every other girl I spoke to, I've not had too many issues.

I have got some shit from people because several women I know like me to go clothes shopping with them simply because I'll give them an honest opinion about what they try on. On a side note women's clothing stores need chairs & couches so I can be comfortable while I'm providing my service, standing around for hours is a pain.

Women have told me that I scared them before they got to know me. I'm intimidating I guess, I don't see it.

I confuse people when I tell them I'm as comfortable working on a car as I am baking a cake. Both can be quite fun.

I'm a graphic designer so one thing I know is colors & apparently knowing what cyan & magenta are is some kind of man sin.

I've got some really evil looks when I would watch a friends little girls while she worked, because a guy spending time with little girls means I must be some kind of freakish pervert.

That's about it I guess... nothing too horrible, but still annoying.

 

[Something Amyss]

And I don't have a problem poking people with sharp objects.

Weirdly enough, I have that rep myself. Mostly because I carried a utility knife for years and years. You'd think I would have been running around with it out jabbing people.

I don't mind grabbing people, though having a history of being assaulted, I don't like being grabbed and I tend to respect that others might within the context of social interaction. Fortunately for me, I come from New England. Neither my community nor my family are particularly huggers.

Also, I'd make a "that's what she said" joke, but MarsAtlas already made a similar sort of joke.

bow chicka bow wow

I'll just leave this site forever now...

If you do, I'll look like an even bigger creep! Help us share the perversion!

 

[Neonbob]

It's a silly thing, but since I live in North Carolina, there was no boy's volleyball scene whatsoever. My dad and a few other parents got their kids together and we made a team, but then we had to either drive out of state or play against girls(who hated us for being there).

Other than that, I can't think of any real complaints with my gender.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

I can't say I've many problems with my sex (not to conflate that with gender) but I've had plenty of problems because of how I'm built. Those problems go way beyond shopping for clothes, which I hate to do because I walk around for hours finding loads of stuff I like, none of it in my size. Tall and skinny isn't catered to as much as some believe.

No, the real problem comes from being a woman built like a malnourished 13-year-old boy. I have SOME breast tissue, but not enough to be noticeable unless I'm wearing skin-tight clothing (admittedly, almost all of my clothing is skin-tight).

One of the worst examples of what I face as a flat-chested woman happened at a Subway a couple of years back. My friend and I were ordering sandwiches and paying separately. My friend is short, skinny, and has natural breasts that bust out of anything she wears. So the two guys behind the counter were drooling all over her and didn't start taking my order.

After my friend paid and went to sit down, the guys then started chatting up a busty blonde in a tight t-shirt who was in line behind me. I stood there for a good 30 seconds without them so much as glancing at me, after which time I literally had to wave at them to get their attention, and had to ask them to take my order. They were so inattentive as I tried making the order that they screwed things up not seconds after I said what I wanted on the sandwich. After giving me the food, the guy at the register didn't bother asking me if I wanted a drink, but instead rang me up without even LOOKING at me. He didn't even tell me how much I owed. (At least he assumed I knew how to read the numbers on the register, eh?) I pretty much lost my cool at that point and curtly told him that I wanted a drink (I TOLD him, rather than asking politely as I religiously do when someone is providing me a service). So he handed me a cup and re-rang the total, again while chatting up the girl behind me and giving me no eye contact. I gave him the money and he closed the register without giving me the cash change (the coins at Subway restaurants come out automatically).

That was the point at which I went from angry to stifling my tears. Not only did I feel like a grotesque, ugly, twig of a woman, but I started feeling like I was barely human. Yeah, that's kind of a reach, but bipolar disorder makes my brain draw oddly fatalistic conclusions at occurrences that may be trivial to others.

I'll admit that my interpretation of their behavior might be wrong, but how else could I look at it? They fawned over my busty friend, skipped over me (and I was wearing a tight tank top with no bra because, let's face it, I can) and went straight on to chatting up the busty blonde behind me in line. I didn't give a shit about whether they didn't find me sexually attractive because I'm not into guys, but don't treat me like dirt just because I don't have cleavage.

Sadly, that's not the only time something like that has happened when I'm standing next to well-endowed women of similar ages and builds to mine, but it remains the most illustrative example of the point I'm trying to make.

 

[GrumbleGrump]

I can't go into the ladies toilet. It's fucking bullshit.

Seriously though, I haven't really experienced discrimination because of my gender, but then again I'm the kind of person that avoid others and stays at home most of the time. So no, because I'm a sad troll who lives in a hole

 

[Itdoesthatsometimes]

I can't say I've many problems with my sex (not to conflate that with gender) but I've had plenty of problems because of how I'm built. Those problems go way beyond shopping for clothes, which I hate to do because I walk around for hours finding loads of stuff I like, none of it in my size. Tall and skinny isn't catered to as much as some believe.

No, the real problem comes from being a woman built like a malnourished 13-year-old boy. I have SOME breast tissue, but not enough to be noticeable unless I'm wearing skin-tight clothing (admittedly, almost all of my clothing is skin-tight).

One of the worst examples of what I face as a flat-chested woman happened at a Subway a couple of years back. My friend and I were ordering sandwiches and paying separately. My friend is short, skinny, and has natural breasts that bust out of anything she wears. So the two guys behind the counter were drooling all over her and didn't start taking my order.

After my friend paid and went to sit down, the guys then started chatting up a busty blonde in a tight t-shirt who was in line behind me. I stood there for a good 30 seconds without them so much as glancing at me, after which time I literally had to wave at them to get their attention, and had to ask them to take my order. They were so inattentive as I tried making the order that they screwed things up not seconds after I said what I wanted on the sandwich. After giving me the food, the guy at the register didn't bother asking me if I wanted a drink, but instead rang me up without even LOOKING at me. He didn't even tell me how much I owed. (At least he assumed I knew how to read the numbers on the register, eh?) I pretty much lost my cool at that point and curtly told him that I wanted a drink (I TOLD him, rather than asking politely as I religiously do when someone is providing me a service). So he handed me a cup and re-rang the total, again while chatting up the girl behind me and giving me no eye contact. I gave him the money and he closed the register without giving me the cash change (the coins at Subway restaurants come out automatically).

That was the point at which I went from angry to stifling my tears. Not only did I feel like a grotesque, ugly, twig of a woman, but I started feeling like I was barely human. Yeah, that's kind of a reach, but bipolar disorder makes my brain draw oddly fatalistic conclusions at occurrences that may be trivial to others.

I'll admit that my interpretation of their behavior might be wrong, but how else could I look at it? They fawned over my busty friend, skipped over me (and I was wearing a tight tank top with no bra because, let's face it, I can) and went straight on to chatting up the busty blonde behind me in line. I didn't give a shit about whether they didn't find me sexually attractive because I'm not into guys, but don't treat me like dirt just because I don't have cleavage.

Sadly, that's not the only time something like that has happened when I'm standing next to well-endowed women of similar ages and builds to mine, but it remains the most illustrative example of the point I'm trying to make.

Subway workers are stoners. I had an attractive young woman (small chested) taking my order once. I could tell she even mildly found me attractive. But she was completely lost when it came to her job. I was pretty annoyed by her, and to top it off every one of the drinks were out. She had "No idea, why", she said in a mindless sleepy way, followed by the quintessential stoner laugh. I've gotten too old to find stoners appealing, I want my sandwich, my drink, and my change.