Punisher vs Captain America

[romxxii]

Yeah, because it's not like Cap is a super soldier who deals with heavily armed opponents all the time or anything.

Not with ones like Frank Castle he doesn't.

Punisher is what you'd call a combat pragmatist. He has no qualms with cheating and being unfair; Captain America does. Punisher is also a ruthless ************ who wouldn't think twice to kill someone -- he's done it thousands of times, after all; Cap still has the superheroes-don't-kill rule, if I'm not mistaken.

If Punisher had time to plan and prepare, he'd definitely win. If he didn't, it could go either way, but I'd still bet on Punisher.

News flash: Cap fought in World War 2 as per Marvel canon. You know what that means? Yeah, he used a gun. A Colt 1911 and a Tommy gun, if I'm not mistaken. There goes your "no killing" theory.

And are you seriously suggesting that Frank Castle is more ruthless than Adolf Hitler? Red Skull? Fucking Nazis? Well I guess Cap has to kill him too.

 

[Thurston]

Wouldn't put too much stock in a rating system that puts the Punisher's strength and durability on par with Iron Man.

Punisher is probably at the human peak of physical development, but no human being is going to win a tug-of-war with bulldozer. Punisher wears crazy body armour, and is a tough SOB, but that gives him the same durability rating as the most sophisticated mobile protection system available on the planet, made by one of the smartest weapon engineers on the planet, utilizing nearly unlimited resources?

I have a No-Prize solution! The ratings came from the individuals themselves, and Cap was being modest, and Punisher was trying to intimidate future opponents.

 

[kypsilon]

The stats seen on the marvel site are complete crap, I put them up there with that collectable card set with character stats they shipped around in the early 1990's. They look cool, but aren't worth investing any serious time in.

The best stats for the Marvel universe came out with their original Marvel Super Heroes game which can be found here:

http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/

Obviously a lot of the characters are from an older point in Marvel, but whatever, it's still a great system. As for the Frank Castle versus Captain America? Captain America would win...because Frank Castle wouldn't kill Captain America. Remember when cap was shot in the head? Yeah, Frank Castle became Captain America out of respect for Rogers' sacrifice.

 

[eevangoh]

Not killing doesn't mean Cap can't beat the shit out of him. Cap is just superior in every way: Knowledge, experience, hand to hand, equipment, strength, agility, strategy, etc. Frank literally has no way to win this fight. You think Cap doesn't fight ruthless opponents who try to kill him by any means necessary on a daily basis?

With prep I'm sure Punisher would win. But if Frank fought the entire Marvel Universe, even with prep, he wouldn't be able to get past Wolverine.

Every way? If by "knowledge" you mean being able to use weapons and gadgets, Punisher definitely has him beat there, and even if he doesn't, Cap rarely uses anything except the shield. He definitely loses on experience: Punisher fought in three wars, has more than 2000 kills to his name, and has beaten pretty much everyone he was ever up against, except Spiderman and Hulk. Cap does win on strength and agility. I already said why Punisher wins in the equipment department, and the strategy... depending on the writer, he can be anything from a genius crazy-prepared strategist to rival Batman to a retarded frontal-attack-and-nothing-else psycho to rival Leroy Jenkins.

News flash: Cap fought in World War 2 as per Marvel canon.

Stop being so fucking condescending. And if that counts, you might as well say that Batman carried a gun and killed someone in every issue way back when, so there goes your "Batman doesn't kill" theory.

 

[WolfThomas]

Yeah, because it's not like Cap is a super soldier who deals with heavily armed opponents all the time or anything.

And if I recall, wasn't he also the only other superhero judged worthy of wielding Mjolnir?

Not the only one. But part of a small club. Beta Ray Bill the Korbonite can wield it. Eric Masterson, A nameless paramedic, Odin and Borr his father and grandfather could.

There's a whole bunch of semi-canon to non canon crossover characters who have wielded it. Superman did but that required the enchantment to be lifted briefly.

 

[eevangoh]

Wolverine? Easy kill. Couple of power mains to the metallic skeleton and thats one fried brain. His regen wouldn't do shite against a constant barrage of power amplified by his own skeleton. Cook him inside out.

I'm not entirely sure how well adamantium works as a conduit. It's a fictional metal, so the writers can do whatever the hell they want with it.

http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/

It says Punisher's fighting skills are superior to Wolverine's, and on this I call bullshit.

 

[Gatx]

I don't think Punisher can be taken seriously after that whole Franken-Castle thing. I mean, as a one shot for Halloween or something, fine, but to actually take the character in that direction is just...

Because he is in many ways the Marvel equivalent to Batman. Right down to his popularity with readers making him far more powerful than he has any real right of being.

But that's superhero comics for you, %60 soap opera and %40 popularity contest.

Isn't Iron Man the Marvel equivalent to Batman? Billionaire playboy philanthropist by day, superhero by night, butler sidekick, best friends with the "main," goody two-shoes superhero of their respective universe.

 

[Muunokhoi]

I would put foward that in a toe to toe fight with no weapons or armour Frank would have a better chance of winning but only due to the fact that has recieved the most up to date training wheras cap rarely using anything other than his shield and super strength. But really you have to admit Deadpool would beat them both to death with their own health bar.

 

[romxxii]

News flash: Cap fought in World War 2 as per Marvel canon.

Stop being so fucking condescending. And if that counts, you might as well say that Batman carried a gun and killed someone in every issue way back when, so there goes your "Batman doesn't kill" theory.

But there's a difference, isn't there? Batman's "no kill" policy retconned his gun-toting days. Captain America, on the other hand, wholly embraces his Nazi-killing Golden Age years as part of current canon. Marvel didn't hit a magic reset button with Cap, they just put him on ice, literally.

And still you fail to address the fault in your premise. If Frank Castle was such a ruthless ************ that Cap -- who's fought fucking Nazis -- has never seen the likes of it, why shouldn't Cap go Nazi-killer on his ass?

 

[romxxii]

BTW, here's Steve Rogers in between Captain America gigs.

Yep, dude carries a gun. He has the same no-killing policy as any soldier in the US Army.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Hi, have you met me? Officialy the strongest superhero in Marvel Universe.

 

[Spacefrog]

I don't think Punisher can be taken seriously after that whole Franken-Castle thing. I mean, as a one shot for Halloween or something, fine, but to actually take the character in that direction is just...

I think that's just it, the stats are built upon Franken-castle
As for the energy projection stat, guns are technically kinetic energy projectors.

Because he is in many ways the Marvel equivalent to Batman. Right down to his popularity with readers making him far more powerful than he has any real right of being.

But that's superhero comics for you, %60 soap opera and %40 popularity contest.

Isn't Iron Man the Marvel equivalent to Batman? Billionaire playboy philanthropist by day, superhero by night, butler sidekick, best friends with the "main," goody two-shoes superhero of their respective universe.

And a tendency to have just the right gadget/armour for the situation.
But as for Batmans ability to be more powerful than he has any real right of being, the only real competition is Wolverine (and maybe Deadpool but that is not taken as seriously)

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Isn't Iron Man the Marvel equivalent to Batman? Billionaire playboy philanthropist by day, superhero by night, butler sidekick, best friends with the "main," goody two-shoes superhero of their respective universe.

And I raise you that they both have origin stories built on the bones of dead families, and that the classic definitive iterations of each character (Read: The version most likely to make it cinemas) is supposedly normal, albeit a completely bad-ass version of normality. And despite living in their respective DC and Marvel universes, both of them are far more closely associated with using 'relatively' mundane equipment to get things done.

Although once he starts deploying artificially intelligent bat-droids and other gadgets based firmly within the realms of science fiction in order to fight crime, he does start to resemble Tony Stark a bit.

 

[Alaster Angelo]

But as for Batmans ability to be more powerful than he has any real right of being, the only real competition is Wolverine (and maybe Deadpool but that is not taken as seriously)

Dr. Doom is essentially a more overpowered version of Batman who has become a god capable of blinking away universes on several occasions.

Wolverine? Easy kill. Couple of power mains to the metallic skeleton and thats one fried brain. His regen wouldn't do shite against a constant barrage of power amplified by his own skeleton. Cook him inside out.

Wouldn't work.

Every way? If by "knowledge" you mean being able to use weapons and gadgets, Punisher definitely has him beat there, and even if he doesn't, Cap rarely uses anything except the shield. He definitely loses on experience: Punisher fought in three wars, has more than 2000 kills to his name, and has beaten pretty much everyone he was ever up against, except Spiderman and Hulk. Cap does win on strength and agility. I already said why Punisher wins in the equipment department, and the strategy... depending on the writer, he can be anything from a genius crazy-prepared strategist to rival Batman to a retarded frontal-attack-and-nothing-else psycho to rival Leroy Jenkins.

Cap's shield is literally the only piece of equipment he needs to win this fight. And Frank has more experience? Cap has fought everybody from Spiderman to the Hulk to Dr. Doom to fucking Thanos. Frank isn't winning this.

 

[el_kabong]

I think the stats are off because Punisher exists in a kind of vacuum. He's part of the Marvel universe, sure. But he mostly crosses paths with people (ie - one-off scenarios). Captain America is often part of a superhero team.

Why does this effect the stats, you say? Because, in group scenarios, good writers know that each member needs their own strengths and weaknesses. For example, in The Avengers, Captain America isn't the strongest (technically speaking, what with Norse gods, machine-men, and monstrosities that can punch out space whales running around). Arguably, he's not the best at combat skills (Black Widow seems to kick a little more ass for her weight class). Definitely not the smartest, either. What he is good at is being a leader (tactics/inspirational presence/etc.).

Punisher, on the flip side, hardly ever is with a team. Therefore, there's no reason to downplay his strengths to fit him into a role for story purposes. He can be the smartest, strongest, fastest, most skilled person in the comic because he's usually the only protagonist that can succeed.

People are almost never able to be objective. The reason Captain America's stats are lower is because people are subconsciously comparing him to his teammates. Punisher doesn't have the same subconscious ties.

 

[CrazyBlaze]

It is possible to kill Wolverine. Hurt so fast and so much that he can't heal, like having him constantly set on fire, (hey its how Deadpool did it) or as Draken is currently trying to do by drowning him for so long that his brain shuts down and so does his healing factor. Of course usually Wolverine eventually is taken out of an environment like that and eventually heals.

 

[RandV80]

I think the stats are off because Punisher exists in a kind of vacuum. He's part of the Marvel universe, sure. But he mostly crosses paths with people (ie - one-off scenarios). Captain America is often part of a superhero team.

Why does this effect the stats, you say? Because, in group scenarios, good writers know that each member needs their own strengths and weaknesses. For example, in The Avengers, Captain America isn't the strongest (technically speaking, what with Norse gods, machine-men, and monstrosities that can punch out space whales running around). Arguably, he's not the best at combat skills (Black Widow seems to kick a little more ass for her weight class). Definitely not the smartest, either. What he is good at is being a leader (tactics/inspirational presence/etc.).

Punisher, on the flip side, hardly ever is with a team. Therefore, there's no reason to downplay his strengths to fit him into a role for story purposes. He can be the smartest, strongest, fastest, most skilled person in the comic because he's usually the only protagonist that can succeed.

People are almost never able to be objective. The reason Captain America's stats are lower is because people are subconsciously comparing him to his teammates. Punisher doesn't have the same subconscious ties.

Very good points, that's likely the reason why. You'd still think they would adjust Punisher's 'stats' to be a little more reasonable though. Like others have said he's pretty much the Batman in the group, being just an ordinary human, except where Bruce Wayne has billions of dollars to support him Punisher uses lethal force and is willing to fight dirty. If he went after Captain America it would be with a very big sniper rifle.

Of course this creates an additional Marvel Universe problem, if one guy can do that much damage simply by being willing to fight dirty and use lethal force, then that should give a huge boost to any armed forces as a whole against any other mutants or super hero's. Like I believe in some alternate time line or whatever Punisher killed Spiderman by using a Dr. Octopus dummy to trick the Spidy senses, then when Spiderman approached thinking Dr. Octopus was the reason for danger Punisher detonated the hidden bomb. So yeah Superhero's would have a much harder time if they could be taken out by a regular guy with such mundane means.