"Pushing the industry forward."

[EternalFacepalm]

Basically, I've been seeing a lot of "extremists" talking about this, and really, it just sounds silly.

I've seen several saying "Duke Nukem Forever shouldn't be released, it's holding the industry back!"
Newsflash.
It isn't.
In fact, games like that do the exact opposite (yes, it was shit, but let's forget about that at the moment); they add diversity to the market, just like any medium needs.
Movies, for example, have some dumb action heroes (which, in fact, Duke is actually a parody of, last time I checked), and some people like those movies (I think?). Where's the problem? Did it hold the industry back, change any opinions on movies? No, it didn't!

There is no need to change people's opinions on games, at all. Video games will quickly enough be universally accepted as a valid form of art and expression, without any effort needed. As long as games made primarily as art stay, and games primarily as entertainment stay (not saying they can't be both), it won't cease to exist.
Just look at the large amount of people playing video games, and stop talking about how to push the industry forwards.
That goes for you too, Extra Credits.

 

[FalloutJack]

Basically, I've been seeing a lot of "extremists" talking about this, and really, it just sounds silly.

I've seen several saying "Duke Nukem Forever shouldn't be released, it's holding the industry back!"
Newsflash.
It isn't.
In fact, games like that do the exact opposite (yes, it was shit, but let's forget about that at the moment); they add diversity to the market, just like any medium needs.
Movies, for example, have some dumb action heroes (which, in fact, Duke is actually a parody of, last time I checked), and some people like those movies (I think?). Where's the problem? Did it hold the industry back, change any opinions on movies? No, it didn't!

There is no need to change people's opinions on games, at all. Video games will quickly enough be universally accepted as a valid form of art and expression, without any effort needed. As long as games made primarily as art stay, and games primarily as entertainment stay (not saying they can't be both), it won't cease to exist.
Just look at the large amount of people playing video games, and stop talking about how to push the industry forwards.
That goes for you too, Extra Credits.

EDIT: Why isn't this posting itself?

Point 1, thank you for speaking realistically on the Duke Nukem front. I do so enjoy an open mind.

Point 2, I actually like Extra Credits because they seem informative and give us at least some sort of hope and optimistic view...which we need more of these days.

Point 3, the site is a bit slow in updates, so you may not see your post immediately.

Point 4, Crunchy Frog.

Point 5, wine poisoned.

Point 6, there is NO Point 6.

Thank you.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

Point 1, thank you for speaking realistically on the Duke Nukem front. I do so enjoy an open mind.

Point 2, I actually like Extra Credits because they seem informative and give us at least some sort of hope and optimistic view...which we need more of these days.

Point 3, the site is a bit slow in updates, so you may not see your post immediately.

Point 4, Crunchy Frog.

Point 5, wine poisoned.

Point 6, there is NO Point 6.

Thank you.

I, too, like Extra Credits, and I don't want the show to disappear. However, some people seem to take them saying "...and push the industry forward" to the extreme. That's just my observation, though.
I don't understand Point 4, 5, and 6, though, but whatever.

 

[Timmibal]

I, too, like Extra Credits, and I don't want the show to disappear. However, some people seem to take them saying "...and push the industry forward" to the extreme. That's just my observation, though.
I don't understand Point 4, 5, and 6, though, but whatever.

Crunchy frog - He uses only the finest fresh baby frogs. Lightly killed, then smothered with dark chocolate.

Wine poisoned - Miss Jackson, could you make that just one coffee please? Thank you.... EEEERK! *Dies*

Monty Python. Because life was not supposed to make sense. Teapot.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

I, too, like Extra Credits, and I don't want the show to disappear. However, some people seem to take them saying "...and push the industry forward" to the extreme. That's just my observation, though.
I don't understand Point 4, 5, and 6, though, but whatever.

I wouldn't say that we need to take away all the 'bland console shooters' that we have an abundance of, but I also wouldn't say that we shouldn't change it up a bit. I haven't played the new Duke game, but from what I hear it didn't change much up. While that's okay, I would rather see a game that took a new approach to things rather than copying widely liked features and pasting them into a new setting.

We don't need to stop certain games being made but we do need to make games that push boundaries a little and try new things. Games will eventually be accepted, but they won't be seen as art unless we make an effort to show that they can be. Both kind of games are needed.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Just look at the large amount of people playing video games, and stop talking about how to push the industry forwards.
That goes for you too, Extra Credits.

I agree, who ever said we need to improve things!
I say we go back to the caves, hunt deer and wear their skin! And clobber women over the head when you want to get some!

Oddly enough your nickname is the perfect response to your post.

 

[random_bars]

As far as I'm concerned, 'pushing the industry forward' simply means doing something that hasn't been done before. Games that are just the same as something else that already exists are pointless, because they don't push the industry forward - not as in "they don't make a deep artistic political statement" but merely that they've been done before and are tired, worn scenarios.

 

[Rabish Bini]

Just look at the large amount of people playing video games, and stop talking about how to push the industry forwards.
That goes for you too, Extra Credits.

I agree, who ever said we need to improve things!
I say we go back to the caves, hunt deer and wear their skin! And clobber women over the head when you want to get some!

Oddly enough your nickname is the perfect response to your post.

That's odd, I'd actually use his name in response to your post.

OT: I'm inclined to agree with you in part. Yes, anyone who says that DNF is holding the industry back does have a malfunctioning frontal lobe. However, people do need to talk about pushing the industry forwards, and I think you're misinterpreting the statement. It really means getting devs to try new things, rather than copypasting CoD or Halo.

 

[Blackpapa]

Any game that isn't a copy&paste is a step.

Duke Nukem is a pretty standard FPS, but at least it's got a unique setting. It's an FPS satire, and that's good.

If anything the games that are holding back the industry are games that can be accurately described as generic, or "X in Y".

Games that are characteristic (and DNF sure is) are definitely moving the industry somewhere.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

Just look at the large amount of people playing video games, and stop talking about how to push the industry forwards.
That goes for you too, Extra Credits.

I agree, who ever said we need to improve things!
I say we go back to the caves, hunt deer and wear their skin! And clobber women over the head when you want to get some!

Oddly enough your nickname is the perfect response to your post.

Define "improve" - What I meant was, there is no need to push the industry as a whole forwards. Games are widely accepted, and thus developers, or those playing their games, shouldn't have to shout in someone's face that "this is art."

Your attempt at insulting me is just silly, though.

As far as I'm concerned, 'pushing the industry forward' simply means doing something that hasn't been done before. Games that are just the same as something else that already exists are pointless, because they don't push the industry forward - not as in "they don't make a deep artistic political statement" but merely that they've been done before and are tired, worn scenarios.

How does that push the industry forward, though? As an industry, shouldn't most games try to have some sort of originality?
The copy-paste games are inevitable, considering how games are, at their core, both products and an art. However, this goes for every medium, as far as I'm concerned; last time I checked, there's a ton of copy-paste kung fu-movies, for example.

Any game that isn't a copy&paste is a step.

Duke Nukem is a pretty standard FPS, but at least it's got a unique setting. It's an FPS satire, and that's good.

If anything the games that are holding back the industry are games that can be accurately described as generic, or "X in Y".

Games that are characteristic (and DNF sure is) are definitely moving the industry somewhere.

How are generic games holding the industry back? Yeah, they're horrible, but it doesn't change the industry as a whole. The generic FPS that has become the formula for success, for instance, is just a fad, and the fad will end soon enough, probably.
Of course, the generic games will always be, but as I've mentioned earlier, things like that are in every medium.

I wouldn't say that we need to take away all the 'bland console shooters' that we have an abundance of, but I also wouldn't say that we shouldn't change it up a bit. I haven't played the new Duke game, but from what I hear it didn't change much up. While that's okay, I would rather see a game that took a new approach to things rather than copying widely liked features and pasting them into a new setting.

We don't need to stop certain games being made but we do need to make games that push boundaries a little and try new things. Games will eventually be accepted, but they won't be seen as art unless we make an effort to show that they can be. Both kind of games are needed.

The problem people had with Duke wasn't with the game as much as the offensive nature of the game, at least as I've noticed (people have a problem with it now, because it was terrible, but that's not important).
I agree with the rest of your post, though.