Quantity over Quality: The Black/Female Characters Problem

[The Crispy Tiger]

So the Star Wars: Episode Seven casting was announced. After freaking out for about the next two hours, I finally came back to Earth to see quite a lot of complaints with there seeming to be only one new main female character and one new main black character, being Daisy Ridley and John Boyega respectively, in the new Star Wars movie.

Um... We've all seen this complaint, or hell, even made this complaint at one time or another. But right now, I don't know. As a black guy, I think that I really wouldn't want a lot of black characters. What I want are really good black characters that can be on the same league as such iconic characters as Atticus Fitch and William Munny...

I think having a lot of black characters is quite nice. The same would be quite nice with women as the argument is made OVER and OVER again, they do make 51% of the population on Earth. But considering that John Boyega seems to be the lead and Daisy Ridley is clearly going to be very important. I don't see the problem. Really I just wish their characters are well written.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I want your opinions. Tell me what you guys think in comments below and I'll make sure to answer.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Frankly I don't see the big deal with the casting, I think it's as timid and as safe as it has always been. One female character per trilogy, one black character per trilogy. Padme and Mace in the prequel, Leia and Lando in the original, and now these two. Yes, I know we have Panaka here and Mon "But it's my only line!" Mothma there, but you get my point. They're playing it by the book and anyone who complains for the sake of the original trilogy has got it all wrong.

I don't know who Daisy Ridley is, but then who knew who Carrie Fischer was back then. As for Boyega, I've seen him in Attack the Block, which I kinda liked and that's more or less all I have to say about that. His role didn't require much except being angry all the time and that one rather sweet moment of respite in the end, so I don't feel entitled to judging his casting. From what little I've seen of him, he doesn't seem to have the charm of a Han or a Lando so I'm assuming they'll cast him in the straight lead role and leave gawky Adam Driver as the sidekick. Or not. Maybe 2 years from now people will be snickering at this post because Boyega just wont an Oscar and Driver's character just ranked at the Top of Best Villains Ever. Who the fuck knows?

But sure, here's to good, memorable characters. Because the prequels certainly didn't give us any (that didn't exist before anyway).

 

[Flutterguy]

Well, for every design decision made someone will disapprove and complain, and for every complaint their is a parrot, sometimes a whole parrot army will appear.

Very rare I see a balance of race/sex anywhere I go in real life, so I never understand why movies have to make it so.

Personally, I'm just sad Sam Jackson won't be the only black jedi now.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

Well, for every design decision made someone will disapprove and complain, and for every complaint their is a parrot, sometimes a whole parrot army will appear.

Very rare I see a balance of race/sex anywhere I go in real life, so I never understand why movies have to make it so.

Personally, I'm just sad Sam Jackson won't be the only black jedi now.

Give them a second, they haven't announced roles yet...

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

Frankly I don't see the big deal with the casting, I think it's as timid and as safe as it has always been. One female character per trilogy, one black character per trilogy. Padme and Mace in the prequel, Leia and Lando in the original, and now these two. Yes, I know we have Panaka here and Mon "But it's my only line!" Mothma there, but you get my point. They're playing it by the book and anyone who complains for the sake of the original trilogy has got it all wrong.

I don't know who Daisy Ridley is, but then who knew who Carrie Fischer was back then. As for Boyega, I've seen him in Attack the Block, which I kinda liked and that's more or less all I have to say about that. His role didn't require much except being angry all the time and that one rather sweet moment of respite in the end, so I don't feel entitled to judging his casting. From what little I've seen of him, he doesn't seem to have the charm of a Han or a Lando so I'm assuming they'll cast him in the straight lead role and leave gawky Adam Driver as the sidekick. Or not. Maybe 2 years from now people will be snickering at this post because Boyega just wont an Oscar and Driver's character just ranked at the Top of Best Villains Ever. Who the fuck knows?

But sure, here's to good, memorable characters. Because the prequels certainly didn't give us any (that didn't exist before anyway).

In terms of the charm, It's said he's actually extremely charming in real life. And I heard that all the way back in 2011. So could Boyega play a charming role. Yes, yes he could. BUT he's probably playing a jedi...

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Frankly I don't see the big deal with the casting, I think it's as timid and as safe as it has always been. One female character per trilogy, one black character per trilogy. Padme and Mace in the prequel, Leia and Lando in the original, and now these two. Yes, I know we have Panaka here and Mon "But it's my only line!" Mothma there, but you get my point. They're playing it by the book and anyone who complains for the sake of the original trilogy has got it all wrong.

I don't know who Daisy Ridley is, but then who knew who Carrie Fischer was back then. As for Boyega, I've seen him in Attack the Block, which I kinda liked and that's more or less all I have to say about that. His role didn't require much except being angry all the time and that one rather sweet moment of respite in the end, so I don't feel entitled to judging his casting. From what little I've seen of him, he doesn't seem to have the charm of a Han or a Lando so I'm assuming they'll cast him in the straight lead role and leave gawky Adam Driver as the sidekick. Or not. Maybe 2 years from now people will be snickering at this post because Boyega just wont an Oscar and Driver's character just ranked at the Top of Best Villains Ever. Who the fuck knows?

But sure, here's to good, memorable characters. Because the prequels certainly didn't give us any (that didn't exist before anyway).

In terms of the charm, It's said he's actually extremely charming in real life. And I heard that all the way back in 2011. So could Boyega play a charming role. Yes, yes he could. BUT he's probably playing a jedi...

That would mean they're going for a Jedi Academy (probably sired by Luke) right? Because the only jedi left as of Return of the Jedi is Luke.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

Frankly I don't see the big deal with the casting, I think it's as timid and as safe as it has always been. One female character per trilogy, one black character per trilogy. Padme and Mace in the prequel, Leia and Lando in the original, and now these two. Yes, I know we have Panaka here and Mon "But it's my only line!" Mothma there, but you get my point. They're playing it by the book and anyone who complains for the sake of the original trilogy has got it all wrong.

I don't know who Daisy Ridley is, but then who knew who Carrie Fischer was back then. As for Boyega, I've seen him in Attack the Block, which I kinda liked and that's more or less all I have to say about that. His role didn't require much except being angry all the time and that one rather sweet moment of respite in the end, so I don't feel entitled to judging his casting. From what little I've seen of him, he doesn't seem to have the charm of a Han or a Lando so I'm assuming they'll cast him in the straight lead role and leave gawky Adam Driver as the sidekick. Or not. Maybe 2 years from now people will be snickering at this post because Boyega just wont an Oscar and Driver's character just ranked at the Top of Best Villains Ever. Who the fuck knows?

But sure, here's to good, memorable characters. Because the prequels certainly didn't give us any (that didn't exist before anyway).

In terms of the charm, It's said he's actually extremely charming in real life. And I heard that all the way back in 2011. So could Boyega play a charming role. Yes, yes he could. BUT he's probably playing a jedi...

He's probably going to be a Ben Kenobi type in this one...

That would mean they're going for a Jedi Academy (probably sired by Luke) right? Because the only jedi left as of Return of the Jedi is Luke.

AKA. How to fuck up your comment. What I meant to say is that Mark Hamil will probably be playing a Ben Kenobi type...

 

[Timotei]

The demographics of Star Wars never really bothered me, because every movie other than New Hope had a well filled diversity quota without being pandering. My biggest concern is cast dynamics and writing, as follows:

1). The actors are not miscast (i.e. Sammy J was reserved and quiet, Liam Neeson as a prick with questionable morals, Natalie Portman acting at all, Jar Jar Binks existing)
2). Actors play off each other well (like the Asteroid sequence in Empire)
3). The older cast are given a small enough role to not overshadow the new cast (like how Nemoy did in Trek 09')
4). There isn't another Jar Jar Binks character
5). George Lucas isn't penning the screenplay or directing

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

AKA. How to fuck up your comment. What I meant to say is that Mark Hamil will probably be playing a Ben Kenobi type...

I'm curious about Max von Sydow myself. You know how the bad guys always have an eminent old-timer on their side, like Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee, Ian McDiarmid? I wonder if Max is going to play a vestigial sith-something.

BTW are "sith" and "jedi" capitalized???

3). The older cast are given a small enough role to not overshadow the new cast (like how Nemoy did in Trek 09')

Abrams has said that Ford will have a "pretty big role" or something along those lines. I don't know about the others.

 

[Thaluikhain]

As a black guy, I think that I really wouldn't want a lot of black characters. What I want are really good black characters that can be on the same league as such iconic characters as Atticus Fitch and William Munny...

Isn't one a function of the other? I mean, most characters are going to be, at best, forgettable, you need lots so some can stand out.

In any case, I don't know if it's the lack of black characters (or women) that's the problem, rather the reasons why we all knew this was going to be the case.

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

never heard of any of the actors playing the new characters before.. so i can't really say if they'll be good or not.. i'm hoping Luke goes nuts and starts laughing like the joker for no reason.. I read that Mark Hammil and Carrie Fisher were both assigned personal trainers and a nutritionists for this film.. but really Hammil is 62 and Fisher is 57.. they have a right to not be in the same shape they were in the original films.


as for the new female character, I've never heard of her but she is pretty attractive from what I've seen...hopefully her being pretty isn't the main reason they cast her.. their could be more actresses cast but they didn't and no one has any say in who they cast for what role but the studio.. they wanted an all male cast they could have done that.. they wanted an all female cast they could have done that too... should there be more females characters? yeah.. but it just didn't happen.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I read that Mark Hammil and Carrie Fisher were both assigned personal trainers and a nutritionists for this film.. but really Hammil is 62 and Fisher is 57.. they have a right to not be in the same shape they were in the original films.

That's not unusual, though, even for young, fairly fir actors.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

The demographics of Star Wars never really bothered me, because every movie other than New Hope had a well filled diversity quota without being pandering. My biggest concern is cast dynamics and writing, as follows:

1). The actors are not miscast (i.e. Sammy J was reserved and quiet, Liam Neeson as a prick with questionable morals, Natalie Portman acting at all, Jar Jar Binks existing)
2). Actors play off each other well (like the Asteroid sequence in Empire)
3). The older cast are given a small enough role to not overshadow the new cast (like how Nemoy did in Trek 09')
4). There isn't another Jar Jar Binks character
5). George Lucas isn't penning the screenplay or directing

You clearly didn't see Garden State, The Professional, or Black Swan...

Either way, we won't know how they're cast for a while but with the cast descriptions out, it's clear who's playing which character as of right now.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

AKA. How to fuck up your comment. What I meant to say is that Mark Hamil will probably be playing a Ben Kenobi type...

I'm curious about Max von Sydow myself. You know how the bad guys always have an eminent old-timer on their side, like Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee, Ian McDiarmid? I wonder if Max is going to play a vestigial sith-something.

BTW are "sith" and "jedi" capitalized???

Max Von Sydow. Everyone's calling it and saying he's going to be a sith. To me, it would work better if everyone with the force, seriously died and he was the commander of an army going against the Jedi. And yes, Jedi and Sith are capitalized.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

As a black guy, I think that I really wouldn't want a lot of black characters. What I want are really good black characters that can be on the same league as such iconic characters as Atticus Fitch and William Munny...

Isn't one a function of the other? I mean, most characters are going to be, at best, forgettable, you need lots so some can stand out.

In any case, I don't know if it's the lack of black characters (or women) that's the problem, rather the reasons why we all knew this was going to be the case.

Not necessarily, but that is one way of seeing it. If you wouldn't mind explaining, why did we know this was all going to be the case and what was it we were all supposed to be knowing (sorry for being so late on the bandwagon there...)

 

[Thaluikhain]

If you wouldn't mind explaining, why did we know this was all going to be the case and what was it we were all supposed to be knowing (sorry for being so late on the bandwagon there...)

Well, movies from the US, especially the really big mainstream ones, always tend to have predominantly white male leads. It'd be a massive surprise if the Star Wars films had anything like similar demographics for actors as the general population did, because that never happens in this sort of thing.

 

[mecegirl]

If you wouldn't mind explaining, why did we know this was all going to be the case and what was it we were all supposed to be knowing (sorry for being so late on the bandwagon there...)

Well, movies from the US, especially the really big mainstream ones, always tend to have predominantly white male leads. It'd be a massive surprise if the Star Wars films had anything like similar demographics for actors as the general population did, because that never happens in this sort of thing.

Pretty much this.

I have come to expect that most mainstream movies will have a predominantly White cast. It's not even about there being more than one Black person, try more than one racial minority period. About the only medium in the U.S. that I've seen regularly have shows with multiple racial minorities are T.V. shows. T.V. shows do better at having heroines in action/fantasy/sci fi as well. And really, does the racial makeup of a show like Sleepy Hollow lessen it? Or what about the ratio of men to women in the show? Does it make it less popular? So why are movies so afraid to take a chance?

With a franchise like Star Wars I understand why there is less diversity from the perspective of the writers. But from the perspective of the world that it is set in? It really doesn't make sense. There are kick ass women everywhere within the franchise. Unfortunately, we either see them in background roles, or they are inserted as the token chick, but they exist. And so now that there is a new movie why do we need another token chick? Why can't there be two or three? I doubt the answer to that has anything to do with the gender politics of the universe these movies are set in.

And as for racial diversity, within the vastness of space the majority of the "human" looking characters are White? Really? In the U.S. and other western nations White people are the majority, but this story is not set in a Western nation. And if we are to believe that the humans within the Star Wars universe came from Earth there should be more Asians than anything else, definitely more Black and Brown people, because on a global scale White people are the minorities. And if the "humans" just came from an Earth like planet then the idea that the global majority is White is laughable. In fact, I doubt the writers have ever considered where their protagonists come from. It's a continual failing with science fiction writers to imagine worlds that emulate the small corner of the earth that they grew up in. Blue people are all the rage, but despite the rather large number of us on Earth anyone darker than light tan seems impossible for some writers to imagine.

But as to a piece of media having more than one Black chracter, I'm gonna post the link to an interview. The man speaking is Dwayne McDuffie. He has worked for various DC comics and TV shows (he's written for Marvel as well). If you have ever watched DC cartoons that have been released on the WB or Cartoon Network you have seen his work. But he is best known for being one of the creators for the Milestone Comics line, and most notably the chracter Static. But long story short he talks about the flack he got for writing a Justice Leauge book with more than one black chracter. Though the funniest thing for me being a comic book reader at the time this all happened was that it was reveled that McDuffie had no control over the characters put into the Justice League book. The editorial chose the characters. He just wrote the best story with the characters assigned to him. So all the anger directed at him(and omg certain parts of the internet were filled with rage) was for nothing.

http://youtu.be/u16sKK-1oLQ

 

[Timotei]

Garden State (snip) Black Swan...

Everyone in Garden State was rained with praise because it was one those raised-pink independent-style movies that happened to get a lot of attention before it hit theaters. Natalie Portman's performance was lukewarm, but people called it great because she was playing an eccentrically-written character. Black Swan was a good movie with a good supporting actress that just happened to have Natalie Portman in it. Most of her raved about performances are the result of her being put into a film with other talented people and given a distinctive lead character. When she's forced to stand up on her own, she doesn't do well. It's an 'empress has no clothes' situation between her, the academy and mainstream media.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I still think they (Ben, Yoda, etc.) should have made Leia the Jedi and given her the training. I just? I imagine the conversation and it doesn't make sense to pick Luke other than the fact that it was a movie and you needed a male lead.

Like seriously?

"Okay guys, time to activate this program to get the Jedi back into action" "Oh really? Sounds good, got those Rebels fighting the Empire, seems like a good time." "Who do you want to pick here?" "Well, we got that girl child - she was taken in by that Senate family remember? Very influential, I hear she's actually pretty high up in the Rebel leadership too, well educated, got her ducks in a row, some followers?" "Well sure, but there's the boy child too - what's he up to?" "Oh, he's? um? well he's on some backwater working a moisture farm and apparently has some serious teenaged angst about being stuck there all his life - bit of a whiner, but a good kid I guess, he'll grow out of it." "Him. For sure." "Really?" >.>