Query: Are JRPGs getting worse or am I just getting old?

[Space Spoons]

Short answer: They're not getting worse, they're just changing.

Long answer: You and I seem to be of like minds when it comes to JRPGs in that we're both decidedly 'old school' players. I happen to agree that Square-Enix in particular has gotten very bad about emphasizing style over substances, which I can't help but feel is Tetsuya Nomura's fault. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, though.

See, the thing is, modern players don't like turn-based combat. They don't like their games to lack voice acting. They can't enjoy the experience if the graphics aren't flashy and pretty to look at. Square-Enix is catering to them- the combat is now mostly automated, voice acting is standard, and everything is flashy, pretty and dramatic. And why shouldn't they be? Old school gamers like us, we're a shrinking market. There's not nearly as much money to be made with us as there is with the new generation of JRPG fans.

Again, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just... Different. Different in a way I cannot stand. Square-Enix is more or less dead to me, but more power to the players that can still enjoy their products.

 

[Epona]

Yeah, I remember getting pulled into a battle screen the last time I played Call of Duty...wait! Are you serious? FF13 may have been on rails but a shooter? Did you really play it for 3 hours?

Well, in a rail shooter you go down some nice painting-like corridors and attack enemies that are served up to you. In that sense FFXIII felt like a rail shooter. Perhaps it did not involve FPS gameplay but nevertheless I stand by the similie!!!

Most shooters don't involve going into a battle screen either. FF13 was on rails but it wasn't an on rails shooter, it was an on rails JRPG.

 

[Epona]

Short answer: They're not getting worse, they're just changing.

Long answer: You and I seem to be of like minds when it comes to JRPGs in that we're both decidedly 'old school' players. I happen to agree that Square-Enix in particular has gotten very bad about emphasizing style over substances, which I can't help but feel is Tetsuya Nomura's fault. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, though.

See, the thing is, modern players don't like turn-based combat. They don't like their games to lack voice acting. They can't enjoy the experience if the graphics aren't flashy and pretty to look at. Square-Enix is catering to them- the combat is now mostly automated, voice acting is standard, and everything is flashy, pretty and dramatic. And why shouldn't they? Old school gamers like us, we're a shrinking market. There's not nearly as much money to be made with us as there is with the new generation of JRPG fans.

Again, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just... Different. Different in a way I cannot stand. Square-Enix is more or less dead to me, but more power to the players that can still enjoy their products.

Final Fantasy has been about graphics since Final Fantasy III on the SNES. It's just that there was substance too.

I remember the first time I played Final Fantasy III, I was amazed that my SNES was doing that. Every FF game since has made graphics a priority but it wasn't until 10 that they started making the games very linear and cutscene heavy.

 

[Space Spoons]

Short answer: They're not getting worse, they're just changing.

Long answer: You and I seem to be of like minds when it comes to JRPGs in that we're both decidedly 'old school' players. I happen to agree that Square-Enix in particular has gotten very bad about emphasizing style over substances, which I can't help but feel is Tetsuya Nomura's fault. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, though.

See, the thing is, modern players don't like turn-based combat. They don't like their games to lack voice acting. They can't enjoy the experience if the graphics aren't flashy and pretty to look at. Square-Enix is catering to them- the combat is now mostly automated, voice acting is standard, and everything is flashy, pretty and dramatic. And why shouldn't they? Old school gamers like us, we're a shrinking market. There's not nearly as much money to be made with us as there is with the new generation of JRPG fans.

Again, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just... Different. Different in a way I cannot stand. Square-Enix is more or less dead to me, but more power to the players that can still enjoy their products.

Final Fantasy has been about graphics since Final Fantasy III on the SNES. It's just that there was substance too.

I remember the first time I played Final Fantasy III, I was amazed that my SNES was doing that. Every FF game since has made graphics a priority but it wasn't until 10 that they started making the games very linear and cutscene heavy.

I have to disagree with you there. FFIII was pretty revolutionary in the graphics department (they went a little nuts with Mode 7, didn't they?), but having nice graphics is a far cry from nice graphics being the entire point of the game, an argument that I think could be made in FFXIII's case.

 

[Epona]

Short answer: They're not getting worse, they're just changing.

Long answer: You and I seem to be of like minds when it comes to JRPGs in that we're both decidedly 'old school' players. I happen to agree that Square-Enix in particular has gotten very bad about emphasizing style over substances, which I can't help but feel is Tetsuya Nomura's fault. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, though.

See, the thing is, modern players don't like turn-based combat. They don't like their games to lack voice acting. They can't enjoy the experience if the graphics aren't flashy and pretty to look at. Square-Enix is catering to them- the combat is now mostly automated, voice acting is standard, and everything is flashy, pretty and dramatic. And why shouldn't they? Old school gamers like us, we're a shrinking market. There's not nearly as much money to be made with us as there is with the new generation of JRPG fans.

Again, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just... Different. Different in a way I cannot stand. Square-Enix is more or less dead to me, but more power to the players that can still enjoy their products.

Final Fantasy has been about graphics since Final Fantasy III on the SNES. It's just that there was substance too.

I remember the first time I played Final Fantasy III, I was amazed that my SNES was doing that. Every FF game since has made graphics a priority but it wasn't until 10 that they started making the games very linear and cutscene heavy.

I have to disagree with you there. FFIII was pretty revolutionary in the graphics department (they went a little nuts with Mode 7, didn't they?), but having nice graphics is a far cry from nice graphics being the entire point of the game, an argument that I think could be made in FFXIII's case.

It doesn't sound like you disagree with me at all. What exactly did I say that you disagree with?

I do disagree with you about FF13 being ONLY about graphics. Even if you didn't like it, you can't believe that they only put thought into the graphics. The battle system was pretty well thought out, like it or not it wasn't as simple as previous ATB games.

 

[DustyDrB]

For big console JRPGs, I definitely think that they've gone downhill in both quality and quantity in recent years. Aside from the Tales and Disgaea series, which in my book are consistently solid but not particularly innovative, I can't think of any JRPG that's really impressed me. Of the handful I haven't played, very few look appealing. I don't know if it is getting older or if it's just these particulars, but the Atelier series and Hyperdimension Neptunia look like absurd anime drivel in a way that I just don't remember from in the past.

I haven't played Xenoblade Chronicles or any other of the Project Rainfall or whatever games, so no comment.

The DS had a lot of good JRPGs, and the PSP had Persona 3 Portable (which is all it needs, but presumably other JRPGs were released), but for consoles, I think the PS2 had good ones in such numbers and in such a broad range of styles that the sudden disappearance of the genre is disappointing

I agree.
The best JRPG experiences are on handhelds these days. Which is nice for me, since that's how I prefer to play the genre anyway. But yeah, just look at Atlus' JRPG releases. They are mostly on the DS and PSP.

 

[SergeantAnt]

From a younger person's perspective yes i do think they are getting worse. My first jrpg i can really remember is final fantasy 10 or dark cloud if you count that and i loved both of them. I have ALL the final fantasies and lots of the shin megami tensei series, and not a single jrpg on my ps3 can even compare. Eternal Sonata I played 10 hours before giving up, final fantasy 13 and 13-2 i beat but they left me more annoyed then happy, the last remnant was meh, and star ocean the last hope was pretty lame as well.
Also the older titles(for me anyway) like ff4, ff7, and Chrono CROSS(don't ask why but i can't get into trigger) are still fun for me to play and i enjoy trying to do everything. There's just no motivation to try that hard with the newer titles because the stories are so lame and uninteresting, the characters are beyond annoying, and the fighting systems are dumbed down to a ridiculous point.
I just finally found ShinMegaTen Nocturne two days ago and i'm so glad i did because it's the best jrpg i've played in a long time, and it came out in 2004. I don't mind talking to everyone, going to every nook and cranny, back tracking, grinding, any of that, because the story is so interesting, the fighting is intense, and it's just awesome.

Only newer jrpgs I could recommend are disgaea, tales games, lost odyssey if your patient, and really that's it out of what I've played how sad D:

Sorry for the rant I've just been getting annoyed seeing my favorite genre i grew up with continuously getting worse by the year it seems D: Now don't mind me i'll go stick to my ShinMegaTen and last gen ff games until these developers get there shit together. And seriously why can't square just finish up and make versus 13 and kingdom hearts 3 so i can forget the company for good and move on!!!

 

[Mister K]

Bah, don't worry. You are not getting too old.
I played FFX for the first time when I was about 13 years old(Oh, by the way, I am 20 now), and I loved it and replayed many times.
Then I played FFXII, which had potential, but battle system and characters killed it for me. Then, at the age of 18 I played P4 and I loved it, then I played P3 and loved it too, although less then P4.
Something happened to the world of JRPG, not to you.

 

[NiPah]

Our ages are about 1 year apart, and I still love playing JRPGs (Neptunia is paused as I write this). It's weird, JRPGs can be some of the slowest games to pull me in, but when I get pulled in it's like reading a good book, they're just hard to put down. I recently finished Tales of Graces, and have taken a long pause from Rune Factory ToD (got out of it during finals, have yet to get back in).

I didn't have the history of PS1 era JRPGs to get me into the market, it wasn't until Mario RPG and then later Quest 64 that I even played them. I truly got into JRPGs on the Dreamcast with Grandia 2, Skies of Arcadia, and Evolution that I found I loved the genre.

I will admit I'm also huge into anime, so the art style of recent series is a huge plus for me, but I still enjoy playing JRPGs on today's counsels. I love me some Skyrim, GTA, Fallout 3, and Mass Effect too, but due to their length and storytelling it seems to me JRPGs are the only place I can go to get truly invested in characters and spend a few hours to grind.

 

[Pepparollin]

As I've gotten older, everything just seems to suck in comparison to way back when. Video games, music, movies, etc. Think it's just an age thing

 

[zefiris]

I'm getting old, and I don't really see them getting worse. In fact, some of the best JRPGs have been recent ones. Etrian Odyssey or Xeno on the Wii, for example.

They just are catering less to male players, which is a good thing in my book. Atelier MEruru's great. Sure, it's not about muscle doods, but well, that's a good thing.

 

[Frankster]

I don't know how much of my opinion is confirmation bias and bandwagon effect but I'd be inclined to agree.

But then again, I ain't touched a JRPG in the last few years, simply because none catches my eye or my interest. I see a modern rpg nd just groan before dismissing it as silly plot with young anime protagonists going on a nonsensical adventure full of plot holes and who fight in turn based manner using spectacular attacks that sumon the forces of the cosmos themselves for 50 damage which you will then have to repeat 100 times for each boss fight.

There was a time when I loved jrpgs, the ps1/saturn era had tons of good ones, and i'd have said it was even my fav genre at the time. Then something happened... I bought less and less rpgs and I think with kingdom hearts 2 something in me broke when I felt i was getting "too old" for jrpgs and their continual use of young/teen characters but worst of all...plots i just couldnt follow anymore.

Maybe its me getting turned off by what i see in new jrpgs but i groan now when i see one now.
Yet some of my fav games of all time (breath of fire,vagrant story, grandia, wild arms to name a but a few) are jrpgs.
I seriously can't explain it, maybe it really is an age thing...

 

[Ryotknife]

I have to disagree with you there. FFIII was pretty revolutionary in the graphics department (they went a little nuts with Mode 7, didn't they?), but having nice graphics is a far cry from nice graphics being the entire point of the game, an argument that I think could be made in FFXIII's case.

There were a lot of flaws with FF13, however it was more than a pretty face. It had some good characters/development, a complex story the likes of which we havent seen since FF7 or FF tactics (even if it fell apart at the final boss), and an interesting combat system.

Granted, each one of these aspects came with serious flaws. Great graphics came with linearity. They had both great and horrible characters (with Vanille being in the horrible class). The combat system held the players hand for too long.

I mean...sadly despite all of those flaws that i listed....it is still one of the best RPGs i played this console generation excluding Valkyrie Chronicles (which is more of a SRPG than a full up JRPG)

that said, yea i miss the "goldenage" of JRPGs of the PS1/PS2 era. Although things are looking up in the past...two years or so. So maybe in 3 years we will have a bunch of half decent JRPGs. Oh wait, we will be in the next console generation.

 

[Rad Party God]

I'm a bit younger than you, I had my SNES when I was a kid, but I had other interests, I was more of an actiony/platformer guy (still am) with games like Contra III, Super Metroid, Donkey Kong Country and Mario filling my childhood, it wasn't until I got the Playstation 1 and rented a curious little game called Final Fantasy VII that got me interested in RPGs at all.

I like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, Vagrant Story, Kindgom Hearts and many other JRPGS of yesterday, but must I admit that I haven't touched a single JRPG this generation has to offer (on the big consoles of course, not counting the NDS), I've only played Bethesda's and BioWare's (especially the Mass Effect trilogy) titles, so I can't give my full opinion, if any, about the state of JRPGS this generation.

Also, take it as whatever you will, but I'm fairly satisfied with Bethesda's titles, I don't care if they don't have any story at all, I had a lot of fun with those games and I still do. I can't say the same with BioWare, I only liked the Mass Effect trilogy, I didn't liked any of the Dragon Age games.

Also, if you think Bethesda's Fallout games don't have any story, try the first two games by Black Isle Studios, you'll be pleasently surprised by the sheer amount of story they both offer, completely paling Beth's work (story wise) by a huge margin.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Not getting worse, just not getting any better. They've progressed much slower than other genres.
Valkyria Chronicles was pretty interesting.

 

[Tallim]

There has been less choice this gen but I wouldn't say that they are generally worse than before. Except maybe FFXIII which I only dislike because the battle system is so very dull.

I really liked Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant, Resonance Of Fate and Lost Odyssey. Nier, both Souls games and Dragon's Dogma.

They are starting to shake up the formula and try more new things.

 

[menacingfox]

For me it has to do with the old school turned based menu combat system and the linear gameplay,this was great long ago but now with fast paced real time action and open world games it just feels so outdated.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

You're getting old, and JRPGs have gone down the toilet since those halcyon days of Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, or Secret of Mana 2. We've passed into a new dark age, an age of this,


whiny emo douchebag protagonists who need a good old fashioned backhand/uppercut combination, godawful writing, and plots that are not so much 'complex and deep' as 'needlessly convoluted.'

Essentially, the SNES days were the Sixth Sense, with the better Playstations being Unbreakable. I just pray we've already hit The Last Airbender, but I fear we're only in Lady in the Water.