Question about Dragon Age 2.

[Cecilo]

Seen quite a bit of discussion about Dragon Age 2, not here to ask you about the gameplay, or design choices. I just was wondering if anyone else felt that Dragon Age 2 pulled a Starfox Adventures on us.

Meaning that it was supposed to be a different game, the Parent company went "Yeaaaa this.. This isn't gonna cut it, re-skin it", And yes I know, Bioware said it was only in development for a year. It just feels like.. so much of it, breaks established lore, Characters that you killed came back to life, Characters that had established back stories and personalities completely changed. The

So much of it feels like it would be so simple to just explain it away with it being a lazy re-skin to try to sell more copies. Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part.

 

[eimatshya]

While I didn't follow its development that closely, it seemed to me like it was more like a reboot of the franchise. They felt that Origins and Awakening were too generic feeling, so they retooled a lot of stuff. I guess they figured since they were retconning the Qunari, no need to stop there.

To be fair, BGII had some pretty jarring retcons of its own, what with characters who could have died in the first game suddenly returning in the second, so on this particular point, Bioware can't be accused of shying away from its roots.

*EDIT* Fixed some typos

 

[Greg White]

They did change the game engine, which was the reason the initial release looked as lackluster as it did, but honestly the game's only real flaw was that it was rushed.

The story, while a bit convoluted at first glance, fit together rather well once you had all the pieces.

The gameplay, while a bit flawed('send in the next wave' fights especially), was a marked improvement over the original in most respects.

Recycling the same cave several times with different areas blocked off was annoying, but a symptom of the game being rushed. They did redo the designs of at least 3 characters from the original, but I'm convinced that was because they realized that the old designs were pretty generic and uninspired, doubly so if the game was going to focus around them. They could have done without changing Janeway's character, but that's whatever.

 

[L4Y Duke]

As someone who has not played any of the other Dragon Age titles, and has within the last hour or so finished the campaign of DA2 for the second time as a Warrior class, I feel that the biggest flaws in the title are the fights, the 'ignored character' dilemma and the recycling of maps.

I do understand that several characters have had their designs changed from previous DA titles, as said event is actually mentioned ingame if you bring Isabela with you to meet the new Fereldan king when he turns up.

Still, it's a good title, and personally I did find myself more attached to Hawke than most other RPG protagonists. The dialogue options allowed for much more snark than other titles tend to go for. Him being voiced probably helped too, as snark is best heard and not read. The fact that dialogue options moulded the dialogue for the options where specifically picking snark wasn't an option made it feel like I was moulding Hawke's personality even when I didn't have direct control was a good addition.

 

[Legion]

I suspect it was more of a "Dragon Age: Origins did fantastic! EA want us to get another one out as soon as possible to cash in on all of the good will. Wait, we don't have the time for that. Or that. Or that. No wait! EA give us more time! We need more time!"

Then they released it anyway.

If you look at it, there is a lot of potential in the game, but so much of it felt half assed and rushed. While Bioware always insist EA has no say in it I refuse to believe the team that made Origins and Awakening would have released Dragon Age 2 as they did if they were given proper freedom in the matter.

I suspect that EA were being EA and were hoping to make a quick return on a popular franchise.

 

[votemarvel]

Dragon Age 2 isn't a bad game, just not a very good sequel.

The combat still runs on the same dice-roll system as the first game but they tried to forced that into a more action roll where it really didn't suit.

Graphics looked really bland. I compare Denerim to Kirkwall and I wonder what went wrong in the design team. Denerim also felt far more alive than Kirkwall, which felt empty, especially considering we were told it was packed to the rafters with refugees.

I didn't mind the story too much but I always felt a little disconnected from it by the time jumps. I felt as if too much important back-story for Hawke was being played out off screen.

Speaking of Hawke, weirdly I felt my mute Warden in the first game had far more personality.

Also I know I'll probably be alone in this but I don't think we needed a voiced protagonist, especially if it limits us in character choice.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Yahtzee said it best, in reference to DA:O, "Mass Effect, brown edition."

They sort of took that idea and ran with it for Dragon Age 2. It effectively ceased to be its own game and borrowed pretty heavily from its sister title...most likely due to the rushed...oh, so rushed...nature of its development cycle.

 

[talker]

While I didn't follow its development that closely, it seemed to me like it was more like a reboot of the franchise. They felt that Origins and Awakening were too generic feeling, so they retooled a lot of stuff. I guess they figured since they were retconning the Qunari, no need to stop there.

To be fair, BGII had some pretty jarring retcons of its own, what with characters who could have died in the first game suddenly returning in the second, so on this particular point, Bioware can't be accused of shying away from its roots.

*EDIT* Fixed some typos

They retconned the qunari?

I think Dragon Age 2 isn't as good as Origins and Awakening, but that's just because I hate the user interface. Also, why can't I change companion armor?

 

[Milanezi]

With all due respect for the bigger fans, but my fun with Dragon Age: Origins was always damaged by the fact that no matter how hard I tried I always saw it as a "Neverwinter Nights wanna be", almost as if Bioware made it because they couldn't get their hands on a D&D license anymore

Dragon Age 2 totally erased that feeling for me, and it felt somewhat of a "partial" reboot, by which I mean, the design suffered a radical change (the Qunari actually look like another race, instead of really tall men) as well as the pace of the game.

Now you're saying dead characters came BACK? That did not happen to me, you could import your save file to put things "in line with your choices", or you should be able to. Can't say I'd know if it worked right, my Dragon Age was for X360 while my DA 2 was for PS3 (also, I remember that one of the DLCs from origins was a total fuck up when it came to respect the decisions of your imported save file...). Like in ME 2 & 3 there were "fail safes" in dialogues or something that allowed players without a save file to influence the game in a given direction.

Particularly, I enjoyed Dragon Age 2 because it felt much more "it's own game" than the predecessor. But I did feel very disappointed with the lack of places to visit. I also enjoyed the more streamlined narrative, where your impact only goes as far as your character and companions, and not really "the whole world", thus focusing the drama on a single character. That said, it fixed the flaws I found in Origins, but it made many other mistakes that Origins didn't. Basically, still looking forward for DA 3, and hopping this one turns out better

 

[CloudAtlas]

(double post)

 

[CloudAtlas]

I found the premise of Dragen Age 2 very promising, much more so than its predecessor. A different kind of story, a different kind of setting compared to what you're all too used in fantasy. I didn't mind them borrowing from Mass Effect either. It was all just really poorly executed. If this wasn't a rushed game then I don't know what is. Well, since I didn't like its predecessor much either, at least I wasn't terribly disappointed.

With all due respect for the bigger fans, but my fun with Dragon Age: Origins was always damaged by the fact that no matter how hard I tried I always saw it as a "Neverwinter Nights wanna be", almost as if Bioware made it because they couldn't get their hands on a D&D license anymore

And if you manage to create a fantasy world that feels more generic than D&D, that's gotta say something.

 

[Odbarc]

The game is significantly better on the PC than the consoles.
It's the oddest switch since the first one seems so compatible and built for the console.

 

[Anachronism]

To be fair, BGII had some pretty jarring retcons of its own, what with characters who could have died in the first game suddenly returning in the second, so on this particular point, Bioware can't be accused of shying away from its roots.

To be fair, coming back from the dead in the Forgotten Realms is a matter of having access to either 1000gp or a reasonably competent cleric. It's not particularly difficult. Plus, whenever you run into a character who could have died in the first game, you can actually ask them "Didn't you die?", which I found pretty entertaining. Characters coming back from the dead in Dragon Age was much more significant because death is permanent in Thedas, whereas in Faerun it's a mild inconvenience.

The more serious retcon is that your BG1 party apparently consisted of Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira and Khalid regardless of who you actually used.

With all due respect for the bigger fans, but my fun with Dragon Age: Origins was always damaged by the fact that no matter how hard I tried I always saw it as a "Neverwinter Nights wanna be", almost as if Bioware made it because they couldn't get their hands on a D&D license anymore

It's more of a Baldur's Gate wannabe, and I say that as someone who enjoyed the hell out of Origins. NWN was more about the toolkit and the multiplayer than the campaign, whereas Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age were all about the single-player. I agree that it does feel like they wanted to make a D&D game but couldn't, though, especially as a big part of the advertising was that it was meant to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.

 

[votemarvel]

Now you're saying dead characters came BACK? That did not happen to me, you could import your save file to put things "in line with your choices", or you should be able to. Can't say I'd know if it worked right, my Dragon Age was for X360 while my DA 2 was for PS3 (also, I remember that one of the DLCs from origins was a total fuck up when it came to respect the decisions of your imported save file...). Like in ME 2 & 3 there were "fail safes" in dialogues or something that allowed players without a save file to influence the game in a given direction.

I'll try to avoid spoilers here, as I don't know how to do the spoiler tags.

At the Sacred Ashes quest in Origins you can kill one of your female companions, when she objects to a task you do.

However even with an import where this character was killed, she will appear as alive again in Dragon Age II. You can see a thread about this right here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.274827-David-Gaider-says-Bioware-decides-what-dead-means-in-Dragon-Age-2.

 

[Milanezi]

...

I'll try to avoid spoilers here, as I don't know how to do the spoiler tags.

At the Sacred Ashes quest in Origins you can kill one of your female companions, when she objects to a task you do.

However even with an import where this character was killed, she will appear as alive again in Dragon Age II. You can see a thread about this right here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.274827-David-Gaider-says-Bioware-decides-what-dead-means-in-Dragon-Age-2.

I see, i wasn't aware of that, but it doesn't surprise me, as I said, I had problems with non-accordance to save files in the DLC of Origins themselves... Now, I'll put the spoilers tag on to be on the safe side, but truth is I don't really exactly remember what the problem was, only the situation, it's about the ending of the Morrigan DLC

Spoiler

well, the hot lady witch Morrigan had my goddamn baby in her arms, which sorta made sense, that's how you got to survive the ending and live to see the DLC lol, BUT she did say a lot of things that did NOT go in accordance to my behavior in game at all, she made it sound like I was against her (my romance had been with her), and she also made some reference about Alistair, I don't remember what, that didn't make any sense whatsoever

anyway, I felt this DLC was pretty fucked up story wise, it's like the moment they decided they shouldn't have allowed us to transfer saves from one game to the other.

I defend the obvious: if you want the decisions to carry over, make it work, otherwise you can invest more in storytelling and making my choices matter only as far as the events of one single game are concerned (the way i felt about DA II

Spoiler

the whole tower thing, it gets blown anyway, your decision only impacts on wether you take part of the attack or not

...

 

[PPB]

With all due respect for the bigger fans, but my fun with Dragon Age: Origins was always damaged by the fact that no matter how hard I tried I always saw it as a "Neverwinter Nights wanna be", almost as if Bioware made it because they couldn't get their hands on a D&D license anymore

It's more of a Baldur's Gate wannabe, and I say that as someone who enjoyed the hell out of Origins. NWN was more about the toolkit and the multiplayer than the campaign, whereas Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age were all about the single-player. I agree that it does feel like they wanted to make a D&D game but couldn't, though, especially as a big part of the advertising was that it was meant to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.

I recall them advertising the game as having "the story and scope of Baldur's Gate, the multiplayer of Neverwinter Nights and the cinematic nature of KotOR" back when they announced it in 2004. They had originally planned to have a multiplayer mode with a distinct campaign, which sounded very ambitious at the time. Basically, this game was supposed to be their crowning achievement and the spiritual successor to their most popular titles.

Then it went under the radar for years and resurfaced as Dragon Age "Origins", without the multiplayer and they stuck to waving the BG flag to lure people in. The toolset remained, and I hoped that it would spawn a new era of modules like we've seen with NWN, but alas people were more concerned about reskinning Morrigan.