Question about DRM prosecutions

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Flour

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Mar 20, 2008
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Shadow Tyrant said:
On the subject of downloading something you already own, theoretically, would it be legal to download a game for PC if you bought it for the 360? I mean, it's the same game, it's just on a different platform.
Not legal.
You bought the 360 version, not the PC version.
Even downloading a copy for backup is a gray area because it is not the game you own. But why should you care? Game publishers would rather have that you bought the game 50 times, than that you downloaded it once after your 360 or disc died.
 

stompy

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Jan 21, 2008
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Shadow Tyrant said:
On the subject of downloading something you already own, theoretically, would it be legal to download a game for PC if you bought it for the 360? I mean, it's the same game, it's just on a different platform.
I'm wondering that myself. I have a copy of The Orange Box on the Xbox 360 that I'd love to try on the PC, but I'm too poor to buy another copy. However, I will go out and buy a copy, because I would like to play Team Fortress 2 online, but still, I would like to know the legal rights on this issue.
 

reaper_2k9

Keeper of the Beer
Oct 22, 2008
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This is still such a grey area that until more people get busted doing it and law makers actual pass specific laws saying whats legal and whats not then there's always going to be some wiggle room for people to get out of it. The problem is they will never be able to catch everyone who is downloading games, movies or whatever from torrents.
 

Retoru

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Aug 6, 2008
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It's not legal to download a game, even if you own it. A lot of people like to throw around "fair use" and claim it's legal, but it's not. Under fair use you're permitted to make a copy of software you buy, but the caveat is that you have to make this copy.

Downloading a game, whether you own a copy of it or not, is not legal. You didn't dump it yourself, and in many cases it's been reverse engineered(also illegal) to either remove or crack the included DRM.

I'm not getting on anyone for piracy, I do it from time to time. But, I know full well what I'm doing isn't legal and I don't try to justify my illegal actions. To put it in simple terms, if you're caught downloading the best thing you can do is simply accept it and do your best to reach a settlement that you can manage. Trying to fight it will just rack up court costs and attorney's fees and there's no way you can win, the law was broken.
 

742

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Sep 8, 2008
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my suggestion would be to go down in a blaze of glory at atari HQ, take out as many executives as you can... but thats just me.

there is a way to make them look upon you quite favorably though, whether you technically violated the law or not. im just not telling. think for a moment.
 

Altorin

Jack of No Trades
May 16, 2008
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Retoru said:
It's not legal to download a game, even if you own it. A lot of people like to throw around "fair use" and claim it's legal, but it's not. Under fair use you're permitted to make a copy of software you buy, but the caveat is that you have to make this copy.

Downloading a game, whether you own a copy of it or not, is not legal. You didn't dump it yourself, and in many cases it's been reverse engineered(also illegal) to either remove or crack the included DRM.

I'm not getting on anyone for piracy, I do it from time to time. But, I know full well what I'm doing isn't legal and I don't try to justify my illegal actions. To put it in simple terms, if you're caught downloading the best thing you can do is simply accept it and do your best to reach a settlement that you can manage. Trying to fight it will just rack up court costs and attorney's fees and there's no way you can win, the law was broken.
well.. there's really not much legality on the matter in either case. But if Atari wants to take you to court, atari will probably win, as it has more lawyers.

more legal rulings are based on precedent. In order for rulings to be consistent, you try to cite previous cases that are the same or similar, and by seeing how they were ruled, you can get an idea where this should be judicated.

There just isn't much precedent for downloading software for private use. Music downloads have more precedence, but even music most precedent deals with distributing music, rather then downloading for personal use.

I'm not saying that Atari couldn't fry that old lady. I'm just saying it wouldn't be nearly as downhill of a battle as it might be. They chose the wrong case to build some precedent with.

EDIT: it must be getting late.. I made way too many errors in that, I think I got the point across though
 

bkd69

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Nov 23, 2007
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Retoru said:
It's not legal to download a game, even if you own it. A lot of people like to throw around "fair use" and claim it's legal, but it's not. Under fair use you're permitted to make a copy of software you buy, but the caveat is that you have to make this copy.

Downloading a game, whether you own a copy of it or not, is not legal. You didn't dump it yourself, and in many cases it's been reverse engineered(also illegal) to either remove or crack the included DRM.

I'm not getting on anyone for piracy, I do it from time to time. But, I know full well what I'm doing isn't legal and I don't try to justify my illegal actions. To put it in simple terms, if you're caught downloading the best thing you can do is simply accept it and do your best to reach a settlement that you can manage. Trying to fight it will just rack up court costs and attorney's fees and there's no way you can win, the law was broken.
Do not underestimate the power of the Purchase Defense.

While downloading and installing a cracked copy of a game that you purchased at retail may be outside the letter of the law, I can't see any way of a publisher taking such a case all the way to a jury. A publisher would have to try to convince 9 out of 12 average schmoes that a customer who bought and paid for a retail copy of Bounceman 6, subsequently harmed them by downloading and installing a cracked copy from the intartubez instead of the copy on the disc that was bought and paid for, and that had money going back up the supply chain to the publisher's coffers. I rather suspect that the reason we haven't seen cases in the system that reflect these circumstances, is that when counsel has contacted suspected copyright trespassers, they backed down when presented with proof of purchase, and realized the impossibility of proving their case to a jury. And if they do want to take their case in front of a jury, well then they get to argue all about enforceability of EULAs (still a crapshoot, though the odds are against) and even better, the lack of software warranties in light of DRM schemes. I'm pretty sure no publisher wants to open that can of worms.

A secondary defense is license vs. ownership. As long as publishers keep insisting that customers are only purchasing licenses to games, and that you don't actually own the game that you bought on disc, well, then they'll be hard pressed to start drawing distinctions between the copy that was purchased vs. the copy that was downloaded. Of course, success on this defense comes at the price of bolstering case law for licensing vs. ownership.

Now, while you may be outside the letter of the law, morally you are mostly in the clear. A slight argument can be made that by downloading a cracked game off the internet, even if you've already purchased it, you're encouraging game crackers to crack games, though I'm pretty sure they weren't waiting for your endorsement of their practice. Now that's a vastly different situation than paying a cracker directly to crack your game, that then gets distributed, or paying money to access a private tracker, as those are more direct inducements, but even the former case may be allowed, as the DMCA offers a bypass exemption for compatibility purposes. But that wouldn't apply for most modern games.