Question about Judaism

[mattseffect]

Before I ask, I don't know anything about Judaism so please forgive any offenses I might unintentionally incur.

So, pork isn't considered kosher because they are 'unclean' in the sense that they live/eat in their own excrement correct? And I heard somewhere that orthodox jews don't eat shellfish/shrimp/bottomfeeders etc for the same reason.

But if the pig was raised in such a way that it never consumed/thrived in filth, would it be considered ok to eat? (same with shrimp, other unkosher animals etc)

 

[Dark Knifer]

This would probally work better in the religion and politics section of the forums. In answer to your question, I have no idea because I am not a part of that group.

 

[ThisTypeofThinking]

Eating those foods are forbidden since it's written in Leviticus. This is due to the fact that they eat the trash on the bottom of the ocean/on the ground by nature. Even if they were raised in a clean environment or whatever, they're still unclean foods.

 

[ShadowStar42]

(Note, I'm not Jewish but I'm pretty familiar with the rules) Short answer: No. You have the situation backwards, pigs (and shell fish) are unclean and so wallow in their own filth and eat where they excrete not the other way around.

 

[Lazarus Long]

How about a dog? Dog eats its own feces.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Not sure. I just know they're supposed to be unclean, and that Muslims have the same prohibition as the Jews in that matter. It's Christians (and Reform Jews and non-traditional Muslims) that are the odd ones out.

How about a dog? Dog eats its own feces.

How many Korean and Chinese Jews do you know?

 

[Lazarus Long]

How about a dog? Dog eats its own feces.

How many Korean and Chinese Jews do you know?

Yeah, but do you consider a dog a filthy animal?

 

[NeutralDrow]

How about a dog? Dog eats its own feces.

How many Korean and Chinese Jews do you know?

Yeah, but do you consider a dog a filthy animal?

I've never wished one a Merry Christmas, no.

Why?

 

[mattseffect]

oh ok, that makes sense. Thanks

 

[mattseffect]

(Note, I'm not Jewish but I'm pretty familiar with the rules) Short answer: No. You have the situation backwards, pigs (and shell fish) are unclean and so wallow in their own filth and eat where they excrete not the other way around.

thanks

 

[cleverlymadeup]

the interesting thing about those rules is it's due to bacteria and ways you have to cook them. back in the day most people wouldn't cook the food enough or mix it with something else, such as unpasteurized milk, that would create a bad reaction resulting in death.

a lot of the Jewish Kosher rules and the Muslim Halal rules are basically guidelines for surviving in the desert.

 

[GodKlown]

Since it's really tied to the religious scripture of the culture, it's hard as hell to fight it. Unless Moses popped up somewhere and called off the rule on that, they are pretty well screwed out of eating bacon-wrapped shrimp any time soon.

 

[Raven's Nest]

the interesting thing about those rules is it's due to bacteria and ways you have to cook them. back in the day most people wouldn't cook the food enough or mix it with something else, such as unpasteurized milk, that would create a bad reaction resulting in death.

a lot of the Jewish Kosher rules and the Muslim Halal rules are basically guidelines for surviving in the desert.

How many pigs and shellfish does one find in a desert?

Edit: Okay I'm now thinking about the part about the preperation and storage of foods whilst preparing them etc which is probably more what you were refering to.

 

[Acidwell]

Here you go straight from the book itself:

Spoiler

These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

3Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

4Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

5And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

6And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

7And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

8Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

9These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

10And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

12Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

13And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

14And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;

15Every raven after his kind;

16And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

17And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,

18And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,

19And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

20All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

21Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;

22Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

23But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

24And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcase of them shall be unclean until the even.

25And whosoever beareth ought of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

26The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.

27And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even.

28And he that beareth the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.

29These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,

30And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.

31These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.

32And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed.

33And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it.

34Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean.

35And every thing whereupon any part of their carcase falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean and shall be unclean unto you.

36Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean.

37And if any part of their carcase fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it shall be clean.

38But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcase fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you.

39And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcase thereof shall be unclean until the even.

40And he that eateth of the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

41And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.

42Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.

43Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.

44For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

45For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

46This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

 

[DannyBoy451]

the interesting thing about those rules is it's due to bacteria and ways you have to cook them. back in the day most people wouldn't cook the food enough or mix it with something else, such as unpasteurized milk, that would create a bad reaction resulting in death.

a lot of the Jewish Kosher rules and the Muslim Halal rules are basically guidelines for surviving in the desert.

I figured that was the underlying reason since I first learned about religious dietary laws in schools years ago.

Similar laws about the correct procedure for dealing with someone's body when they've died also fit with this idea of doing things correctly in a hot climate.

 

[ReincarnatedFTP]

IIRC Leviticus is really just a set of rules for the old Judaic society set out by the Levite priesthood. Most of it was hygiene/maintaining order related and things that would only work in their culture.

For example, it talks about how to go about selling your children into slavery or how to deal with a menstruating woman.

The stuff that works for health and order was probably assumed to be right in the eyes of God since it worked and kept in with all the other shit that validated their cultural notions in the name of God. For example, when seeing homosexual acts they might feel really icky or if their partner cheats on them they might feel really bad. You want "justice", and your revulsion comes from God and righteous feelings. Clearly you must kill them.

Sort of a rulebook that was for health,law, and order, but they mixed in religion so they could keep a certain notion of power and authority ("Because we're representatives of God! That's why you should listen to us!"), part for the good of the society trying to survive in a fucking desert, part out of human greed and lust for power amongst the priests. The random stuff like stoning homosexuals and such was probably just a fucked up cultural norm, or base societal feelings that the priests allowed the people to believe was in God's plan and consideration as well, so the people could let their vices and brutality out without too much change, so they're more willing to obey the rules they don't like.

 

[ParadoxBG]

There are actually a lot more animals than just that on the lsit, but given curren culture most aren't considered traditionally edible animals, so you never hear about it.

Hold on, I'm gonna go look it up.

EDIT: Okay, on the list o fods refused by SOME Jews (not all, necessarily):

Camel
Lizard
Horse/Pork
Rabbit
Birds of Prey (Eagles, Hawks, Falcons)
Shellfish
Frog
Heron (or other birds that eat fish/frogs primarily)
Flaworm (although I'm not too certain on that last one, as it's just an illustration on a chart that looks rather like a flatworm)

 

[Styphax]

It's a religion, it'll never make real sense.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

the interesting thing about those rules is it's due to bacteria and ways you have to cook them. back in the day most people wouldn't cook the food enough or mix it with something else, such as unpasteurized milk, that would create a bad reaction resulting in death.

a lot of the Jewish Kosher rules and the Muslim Halal rules are basically guidelines for surviving in the desert.

How many pigs and shellfish does one find in a desert?

Edit: Okay I'm now thinking about the part about the preperation and storage of foods whilst preparing them etc which is probably more what you were refering to.

they have them in that part of the world believe it or not. they can't eat them nor wear their skin for clothing but they're great garbage disposals.

I figured that was the underlying reason since I first learned about religious dietary laws in schools years ago.

Similar laws about the correct procedure for dealing with someone's body when they've died also fit with this idea of doing things correctly in a hot climate.

the funny part about the milk and seafood rule is since we've been pasteurizing milk for the past 100 or so years they couldn't find the link and were wondering what it was about. then some scientist remembered we pasteurize milk and tested the unpasteurized stuff and figured it out. the joys of technology making us forget the old ways