Question for fans of Beyond Good and Evil, the first one

happyninja42

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So, I've never played it, know nothing about it, other than it's apparently a favorite from the previous platform era, and has a female protagonist......

....and then I see that incredibly fucked up trailer for Beyond G&E 2, and though "The fuck is this? I thought the first game was just some kind of murder mystery thing with a girl and her camera? We got talking monkey people, and pigs, and someone took 5th Element and slapped some more steampunky elements on it? The hell?"

So, yeah, is this actually in theme with the original game? Was it some scifi, space piratey jaunt story with talking animals and all that stuff? Or did they just take a HUGE left turn with the plot, and it's an "In name only" kind of sequel?
 

Myria

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Note that I'm not what you'd call a fan, I've always felt BG&E's commercial failure was well deserved, but I did play it back in the day.

Anyway, the central character in the original is a human girl (un-cleverly) named Jade. She's an orphan being raised primarily by an anthropomorphic boar named Pey'j. Talking anthropomorphic animals are a common sight in this future. To the best of my recollection it's not explained, it just is. Most of the plot revolves around trying to find out the truth about an alien threat, the DomZ, and the planetary government. Dirty dealings uncovered, truth to power, blah-blah-blah. It's rather trope filled and fairly juvenile stuff.

Gameplay is a mix of action platforming with some (fairly terrible, as I recall) stealth sections.

Towards the very end of the game it takes a sudden David Cagian left turn into WTFville and then, in the post-game credits, ends on a cliffhanger.

As for that trailer, eh... Parts of it fit, but tonally it's whiplash inducing. Then again, I've never understood why anyone wanted a sequel, let alone expected anything that came out at this late date to in any way resemble anything decent when the game has spent so long in developer purgatory, not even cared enough about to enter developer hell. This is the second trailer, yet he game is still at 'day zero' stage of undevelopment.
 

Pseudonym

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Happyninja42 said:
So, I've never played it, know nothing about it, other than it's apparently a favorite from the previous platform era, and has a female protagonist......

....and then I see that incredibly fucked up trailer for Beyond G&E 2, and though "The fuck is this? I thought the first game was just some kind of murder mystery thing with a girl and her camera? We got talking monkey people, and pigs, and someone took 5th Element and slapped some more steampunky elements on it? The hell?"

So, yeah, is this actually in theme with the original game? Was it some scifi, space piratey jaunt story with talking animals and all that stuff? Or did they just take a HUGE left turn with the plot, and it's an "In name only" kind of sequel?
What I gather from that trailer is different from the first game, but not in the way you seem to think. The first game is a scifi story about a group of alien invaders/planet siegers cooperating with an evil government/deceptive armed force to obduct people from your planet. The job of Jade is to expose them by sneaking into their facilities and taking pictures of the bad stuff happening to convince the population of the planet to get rid of the government.

It features a ton of different gameplaythings, stealth, boatracing, boatracing with obstacles, flying in a spacecraft, meleecombat, fighting with the boat, fighing with your spacecraft, a tablehockey minigames and taking pictures of all the species of animals (humanoids included). All of these types of gameplay are all fairly simple and the entire game is fairly short (10 hours or so, I don't really remember). It has a strangely lighthearted and optimistic tone, given the subject matter and it requires you to not be a cynic about it and not ask too many questions. (like why am I paid such good money for taking pictures of animals in the middle of an apocalypic war? why is the black market one of the most visible possible locations?) The closest things it might be compared to are zelda windwaker and rayman 2 (the developers' previous game) but neither a really that similar. If I had to explain why I like it I have to credit the mood or tone and the fact that everything at least works and isn't too hard. None of the gameplay elements is brilliant on itself and none of the story is that good on itself but it sets a powerful mood, is fun enough the whole time, and works as a whole.

Now talking animals were always a thing. You even go through the lenght of fotographing the different species of pigmen, cowmen, eaglemen, sharkmen, rhinomen, catmen, walrusmen, etc. There was always tons of scifi stuff and their was always weird magical stuff that is never really explained and that you certainly shouldn't think too hard about.
 

happyninja42

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Oh I have no issue with people liking/disliking it, I was just REALLY confused. Basically my entire knowledge of the game was glancing at the cover art a few times, and seeing a girl with a camera. Everything else was unknown, so this 5th Element-esque world with sentient animals was a major "WTF?!" for me :)

So it's still keeping with the basic setting/concept, ok that's cool, just wasn't sure if this was some crazy departure or not.

Thanks.
 

EternallyBored

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Happyninja42 said:
Oh I have no issue with people liking/disliking it, I was just REALLY confused. Basically my entire knowledge of the game was glancing at the cover art a few times, and seeing a girl with a camera. Everything else was unknown, so this 5th Element-esque world with sentient animals was a major "WTF?!" for me :)

So it's still keeping with the basic setting/concept, ok that's cool, just wasn't sure if this was some crazy departure or not.

Thanks.
Basic setting is definitely intact though the swearing and blood is new, the first game's violence and themes never really rose above the level of your average Zelda game, maybe only slightly darker in tone with the conspiracy and betrayal stuff.

The anthropomorphic animals were in the first and never really explained why they were there, admittedly I haven't played the game in over a decade. Anyway, basically India and China become world powers and them and the other human nations on Earth uplift a bunch of different animal species before going out to colonize the stars. In the first game they were just there, as citizens and characters, since this is a prequel it apparently takes place in a time when the anthropomorphic animals were mostly second class citizens and/or slave labor, I don't remember if that was in the lore of the first game or not.

Setting wise its familiar, though the advancement in graphics allows them to get way more detailed with the sci-fi tech. I remember the first game having a kind of Fifth Element meets Ratchet and Clank or Jak and Daxter 2 sort of vibe with the space ships, flying cars, and mish mash of dark sci-fi themes mixed with goofy looking alien characters and comedy.

Overall yeah, it came off as a very recognizable trailer, even without Jade, the main character of 1, the scooter scene is reminiscent of some of the vehicle stuff from the first game. I can sort of see and appreciate where they are trying to go with the swearing and violence, the first game was a sort of pseudo family friendly adventure game with some stealth elements. The creator of the first one is working on the second, and seems to want the setting to be more serious in tone. anybody that played the game as a kid is all grown up so it has the advantage that no kids actually remember the first one so it will be interesting if they can pull off embracing the dark stuff from the first game and turning the setting in a more realistic direction.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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The first one is about a young woman joining a sort of treehouse resistance set on repelling a race of alien parasites and exposing their collaborationist government. Jade's a freelance photographer so she has a journalistic interest in the cause, and mission goals usually end with taking pictures of evidence. You also take pictures of enemies and wildlife for goodies ala BioShock. Oh and she runs a cute orphanage with an antropomorphic pig, which later serves to make things personal.

The game has a very charming, upbeat vibe to it. There're darker undertones of sacrifice and but-I'm-the-chosen-one later on but nothing that would put a dent on, I dunno, Zelda or Kingdom Hearts. And no, the latest trailer has nothing to do with the original game. It's as cringy and embarrassing as watching the intro cinematic for Shadow the Hedgehog [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPWrHPNekvE], as far as I'm concerned.

EternallyBored said:
...seems to want the setting to be more serious in tone (...) turning the setting in a more realistic direction.
What on earth was "serious" & "realistic" about a pimp monkey riding a bike, firing a gun and spouting "************" ad nauseam?
 

Valiance

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The original was more like a Disney / Dreamworks adventure, family friendly but still full of action. It also ended on a cliffhanger. So, 14 years later, to get a prequel that takes place before Jade is born, with totally different characters, seemingly much lower quality banter, and the promise of an "open world, you can go anywhere, and travel between planets" kind of push, doesn't bode well.

As always, I hope for the best, but temper my expectations.
 

shrekfan246

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Happyninja42 said:
So it's still keeping with the basic setting/concept, ok that's cool, just wasn't sure if this was some crazy departure or not.

Thanks.
Yeah, like other people have said, the general setting is very similar, but the tone seems to be wildly different. One of the main characters of the original is a talking pig man and it's very much set in a sci-fi universe.
 

EternallyBored

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Johnny Novgorod said:
EternallyBored said:
...seems to want the setting to be more serious in tone (...) turning the setting in a more realistic direction.
What on earth was "serious" & "realistic" about a pimp monkey riding a bike, firing a gun and spouting "************" ad nauseam?
Serious, as in being upfront about the darker themes of creating slave races and said races exploring spirituality despite/in spite of fully knowing how/why they were created (admittedly that wasn't in the trailer that bit came from the devs afterwards), exploring actual space pirates and revolutionaries that aren't just a bunch of plucky pure hearted rebels fighting back against the man. A crime boss/syndicate that isn't a brightly colored black market that's actually a black market and not just there to sell you powerups. Characters that might have questionable or even objectionable motivations rather than a pure good guy that's so much of a good guy they have a cliche orphanage hook where you know exactly what's going to happen to those orphans as soon as you meet them.

Realistic in the sense of gray rather than black or white morality, i.e. instead of the chosen one/plucky reporter you have a crime boss and a group of rebels that actually might be a mixture of morally dubious, outright scumbags, and/or actual good guys. Perhaps gritty might be a better way to phrase it, realistic doesn't just mean mimicking reality you can also be realistic in theme, tone, speech etc. Which leads to the swearing which I am fine with, I have met real people that swear just as much, I would expect a con artist space pirate to have salty language, and they didn't extend the swearing to the captain and the bike driver so as long as they don't make all the characters over the top in their swearing, I am going to expect some fucks out of the character they are trying to create with the monkey.

That said, serious or realistic does not mean good. Despite throwing shade on some of BG&E 1's plot, it was a perfectly good story, like a saturday morning cartoon serial, I respect what it was going for, the chosen one stuff was a little lame so late in the game, but they could have easily made it work in a sequel, just paired with the cliffhanger and no resolution its kind of a lame plot point.

BGE 2 could nail the tone change, despite what you may think, plenty of properties have gotten darker, more serious, or grittier, and succeeded: Jak and Daxter 2&3, Prince of Persia 3(after going too far with 2), Ratchet and Clank, Tomb Raider, etc.

On the other hand, you may be right and they make everything silly and stupid, although I seriously doubt it will get as bad as Shadow the Hedgehog, the problem there was that Shadow was changed for no explained reason and put next to the other Sonic characters who retained their characterizations from earlier games, BGE 2 is separated enough in being a distant prequel that we likely won't have to deal with Jade suddenly smoking, swearing, and shooting realistic guns while the other BGE 1 characters all act exactly the same as they did in the first game.
The change for Jak and Daxter 2 worked because the world and characters around Jak changed to match the new tone, in Shadow Hedgehog you still had a plucky tales and charmy the fucking bee giving pep speeches while fighting Robotniks same silly looking robots while the new villain didn't look serious or threatening enough to match shadow's own characterization.

Tl;DR: The setting looks to be grittier and more serious, the devs have stated they want to explore some interesting questions, however none of that means they will succeed or that the game will be good, and I completely sympathize with those that don't like the tone change, it does seem to be a departure from the first game, though how much of one remains to be seen.
 

Zhukov

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Happyninja42 said:
So, yeah, is this actually in theme with the original game? Was it some scifi, space piratey jaunt story with talking animals and all that stuff? Or did they just take a HUGE left turn with the plot, and it's an "In name only" kind of sequel?
It was sci-fi of a soft and relatively light-hearted variety. Not exactly space-piratey but it was the kind of setting in which one could easily imagine space pirates existing. There were anthropomorphic animals all over the place, one of the main characters was a gruffly affable pig mechanic.

In terms of tone the only major departure is the barrage of "fucks". The original game was very kid friendly. One could also argue about the blowing up of the police barge I suppose.

In terms of plot... well, that would depend on whether you consider a prequel to be a "HUGE left turn".
 

Fulbert

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EternallyBored said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
EternallyBored said:
...seems to want the setting to be more serious in tone (...) turning the setting in a more realistic direction.
What on earth was "serious" & "realistic" about a pimp monkey riding a bike, firing a gun and spouting "************" ad nauseam?
Serious, as in being upfront about the darker themes of creating slave races and said races exploring spirituality despite/in spite of fully knowing how/why they were created (admittedly that wasn't in the trailer that bit came from the devs afterwards), exploring actual space pirates and revolutionaries that aren't just a bunch of plucky pure hearted rebels fighting back against the man. A crime boss/syndicate that isn't a brightly colored black market that's actually a black market and not just there to sell you powerups. Characters that might have questionable or even objectionable motivations rather than a pure good guy that's so much of a good guy they have a cliche orphanage hook where you know exactly what's going to happen to those orphans as soon as you meet them.

Realistic in the sense of gray rather than black or white morality, i.e. instead of the chosen one/plucky reporter you have a crime boss and a group of rebels that actually might be a mixture of morally dubious, outright scumbags, and/or actual good guys. Perhaps gritty might be a better way to phrase it, realistic doesn't just mean mimicking reality you can also be realistic in theme, tone, speech etc. Which leads to the swearing which I am fine with, I have met real people that swear just as much, I would expect a con artist space pirate to have salty language, and they didn't extend the swearing to the captain and the bike driver so as long as they don't make all the characters over the top in their swearing, I am going to expect some fucks out of the character they are trying to create with the monkey.
I was kinda put off by all this Dr. Moreau explanation for animal people. BGaE has always felt to me like this sort of a sci-fi fairy tale, where aliens just happen to look like bipedal cats and sharks and rhinoceros...es, and this new backstory almost feels like trying to explain the Three Blind Mice as a result of an inhumane experiment to enhance their brains that left their eyes crippled or something. So it all sounds silly and grating to me rather than serious. But I suppose you cannot make a story in this day and age without some white guilt thrown in, so there's that.

Other than that, I like how much story and themes you have managed to extrapolate from that little chase sequence. Grey morality, morally dubious characters, outright scumbags, actual space pirates and revolutionaries. All that from a couple minutes of a mothafocka-spewing monkeyman fleeing from a police dreadnought shooting missiles around in an urban centre (another point to seriousness and realism, huh?). You certainly have good imagination, sir!
 
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The thing with BG&E is that it was a lot of games in one. It is a very good game, deserving of the critical acclaim it got, but it wasn't great at any one thing. It had vehicle sections, platform sections, stealth sections, action sections and blended a cool "dystopia" type story into it. The characters were cool, and what I liked about Jade was that she was a journalist out to expose the evil overlords, not a soldier or chosen one.

It can be played on PC and was in fact free during the Ubi30 event not so long ago. Recommend checking it out as a great game from the Xbox generation.
 

chrissx2

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Kinda off-topic, but I really liked what I saw. I never played original BG&E and I can easly see the change of tone, but i'm dying for a GTA-like game in 5th-Element-ish theme, even if the game is going to have typical, shitty, Ubisoft-type of open-world design.
 

Xprimentyl

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KingsGambit said:
The thing with BG&E is that it was a lot of games in one. It is a very good game, deserving of the critical acclaim it got, but it wasn't great at any one thing.
I kind agree. Not trying to troll or be contrary, but I don?t get why this game is so widely beloved. A good friend of mine swore by it as one of his very few all time favorites, so when it was $5 (I think) on XBL a couple years ago, I picked it up and played through it; while it wasn?t bad, it certainly wasn?t good. It just felt like too much a mash up of too many things, none of which were done poorly, but neither were they done exceptionally. I think it survives largely on nostalgia. Maybe what younger minds perceived as variety maturity exposes as a lack of focus, a sacrificing of depth for breadth? Or maybe it?s just me; the game hasn?t aged well and having played better, more refined games since BG&E came out, it?s unfair comparison to expect it to measure up?

Either way, to each their own. I hope the long anticipated sequel at least meets your expectations; unfortunately, current industry trends lead me to believe it might be prudent to lower the bar a tad?
 

sageoftruth

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I was a bit surprised as well when I saw this. Some things I heard later though were that this is a prequel and the human character (who is probably going to be the player character) is not actually Jade. Kind of a relief really, since the two struck me as being very different character-wise.
Considering how relatively primitive the first game's setting looked compared to this one, I'm getting the impression that shit's gonna get wrecked in this prequel.
Gameplay-wise, I'm just hoping for the first game with a sizeable coat of polish and refinement. I don't know of many games out there that let you play as the stealth papparazzi for a powerful and oppressive future regime.
 

Weaver

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Pretty unrelated but the Propaganda song in the Akuda Bar is awesome.

The game was certainly weird, the themes and topic were very heavy (government controlling information, censoring information, publishing lies, killing political enemies, being very authoritarian, some light racism) but the tone was ... I don't want to necessarily say "childish" but I'm not sure how else to put it. It was very PG let's say.