Quick question, is this stealing?

[JPArbiter]

Technically, yes, it's theft.

However, that's not how I would view it. You bought the code needed to run the game, ethically you should be able to do anything you like to your copy of said code.

But, if you signed a contract saying that you wouldn't do something like that, then you're breaking that contract, which is where I see the ethical dubiousness of your situation.

the End User License Agreement in the instruction manual takes care of that. by popping the disc in the X Box (or console of your choice) you are legally agreeing to not "sell the software to the commies" so to speak.

The legality of the EULA is not universal.
It is not, in any way or form, legally binding where I am from.

Besides, EA should face harsh penalties for destroying a market they do not like.
I very much doubt that car or housing manufacturers would ever be allowed to pull shit like that.

Cars purchases and home construction though are the purchase of tangible assets, the prevailing theory with software, particularly software that can be continuously patched through the internet, is that you are not purchasing anything real, but the rather the right to use a piece of software. the Disc that anti EULA crowds cling to as the physical medium is a delivery system, nothing more.

not saying it is right, just saying it is the theory.

 

[AngelicSven]

So let me get this straight.

Did the Steam package come with a free copy of American McGee's Alice? If so, then you got the Project Ten Dollar stuff you're supposed to get with a new copy.

If we're talking about the Weapons of Madness and Dresses pack, that's not project ten dollar stuff, and you're most definately stealing it.

Why is it I suspect that the OP's not telling the whole story?

Did I say it came with the first game? Nope, don't believe I did.

It's fairly simple, bought the game (Just the game), couldn't find the dlc for it on Steam, which I would have bought. Went into the file and changed it to have the DLC. However, it is Project Ten Dollar stuff, cause Alice 1 is in the main menu after I did it. Of course I can't play it cause it's not actually there.

Though, like I said, it's fairly irrelevant because did all this months ago. Oh, it's actually reversible, set it back to FALSE and it's the normal game again. So even if it is minor theft, I'll just switch it back.

 

[Sikratua]

Allow me to quote the Theft Act 1968 from English law. Section 1(1) states "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and thief and steal shall be construed accordingly."

All of the elements of the offense need to be present at the same time for the offense to be complete, but in this case there is no intent to permanently deprive under the ordinary meaning of the words (as we are required to look at first from R v Lloyd). Also it does not fall under the meaning of disposal for s.6(1), neither is it akin to a dishonest borrowing under s.6(2) so he is not guilty of theft.

Why is this topic so difficult for people to get? Piracy is not theft. Yes, it's illegal, but it's not theft!

So, what you're saying is that the OP is guilty of permanently depriving EA of 10 bucks. How is that not theft, again?

Allow me to quote from American law, because, since the OP is an American, it actually applies. Even better, since the OP is from California, I can quote direct California law on the subject. While I will admit that California Penal Code § 484 isn't as succinct as yours, It certainly gets the job done.

Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry, lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft.

The key phrases are "Fraudlulently appropriate property" (which he did) and "defraud any other person of money." (Which, again, he did.) So, given the ACTUAL law on the subject, how is this not theft? California law, which is the one that actually matters, doesn't make any distinction for the actual owner not being allowed to use it any longer.

Here. Check it for yourself.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=484-502.9

But, because I like the ironic echo trope, "Why is this topic so difficult for people to get?"

Edited: Just because I feel like having a bit of fun with this guy, please, allow me to quote British law. The Theft Act of 1978 states:

(1) A person who by any deception dishonestly obtains services from another shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) It is an obtaining of services where the other is induced to confer a benefit by doing some act, or causing or permitting some act to be done, on the understanding that the benefit has been or will be paid for.
(3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection

The "service" in question is unlocking the material. Shall I invoke the ironic echo again?

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Project Ten Dollar needs to fuck off and die. It treats people like criminals and only makes them turn to piracy even more.

Why can't they get this through their heads?

 

[Alexnader]

If you consider piracy stealing then what you've just done is steal the DLC. Just because the data is already on the disc doesn't mean it's yours. You didn't pay for a disc and all its contents, you paid for a license to play the game. You did not pay for the DLC and I suggest anyone who thinks otherwise to quickly look up the basic theory behind the software license agreement you accept every time you install a game.

Also while it is theft you obviously wouldn't get prosecuted.

 

[omega3711]

Yep, that's stealing. What you did would be like playing WoW and then tampering with the files to unlock the expansions that Blizzard has released. Why there would be DLC released on the first day is beyond me but that does not mean anyone is entitled to have it for free.

 

[AngelicSven]

So, what you're saying is that the OP is guilty of permanently depriving EA of 10 bucks. How is that not theft, again?

Allow me to quote from American law, because, since the OP is an American, it actually applies. Even better, since the OP is from California, I can quote direct California law on the subject. While I will admit that California Penal Code § 484 isn't as succinct as yours, It certainly gets the job done.

Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry, lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft.

The key phrases are "Fraudlulently appropriate property" (which he did) and "defraud any other person of money." (Which, again, he did.) So, given the ACTUAL law on the subject, how is this not theft? California law, which is the one that actually matters, doesn't make any distinction for the actual owner not being allowed to use it any longer.

Here. Check it for yourself.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=484-502.9

But, because I like the ironic echo trope, "Why is this topic so difficult for people to get?"

Feloniously? I don't think defrauding 10 bucks would be a felony, maybe a misdemeanor, most likely a slap on the wrist. It's okay though, I just gave it back to EA so it's all fine, quite easy actually. I felt bad.

 

[tavelkyosoba]

I'd say technically yes because it's not within your licensing agreement.

But ethically, project 10-dollar prices content to second hand buyers of games...but you bought yours first hand at retail so you should receive all the benefits thereof.

legality and riteousness don't always play well together.

 

[XT inc]

I'd say no, But I really want the courts to rule for the rights of ownership.

None of this, oh you bought a license to play this game that you bought and can be revoked should we say so.

If its on the disk you went to the store to buy, then it is yours. I draw the line at ripping files off the disk to make content you'd sell to people, but I think it is fair use to get access to every 1 and 0 on that program.

 

[DracoSuave]

So let me get this straight.

Did the Steam package come with a free copy of American McGee's Alice? If so, then you got the Project Ten Dollar stuff you're supposed to get with a new copy.

If we're talking about the Weapons of Madness and Dresses pack, that's not project ten dollar stuff, and you're most definately stealing it.

Why is it I suspect that the OP's not telling the whole story?

Did I say it came with the first game? Nope, don't believe I did.

It's fairly simple, bought the game (Just the game), couldn't find the dlc for it on Steam, which I would have bought. Went into the file and changed it to have the DLC. However, it is Project Ten Dollar stuff, cause Alice 1 is in the main menu after I did it. Of course I can't play it cause it's not actually there.

Though, like I said, it's fairly irrelevant because did all this months ago. Oh, it's actually reversible, set it back to FALSE and it's the normal game again. So even if it is minor theft, I'll just switch it back.

Well...

How did you do it months ago, it's only been out a single month and a week?

So, you unlocked the menu item for something that doesn't exist?

I'm confused as to what the whole story is here. Did you get the DLC or not?

Also, the Steam version doesn't say it includes it. Where does this idea that you're entitled to a free game because some -other- offer DOES list it come from?

If you want free games, you should probably take up the offer that gives them.

 

[AngelicSven]

So let me get this straight.

Did the Steam package come with a free copy of American McGee's Alice? If so, then you got the Project Ten Dollar stuff you're supposed to get with a new copy.

If we're talking about the Weapons of Madness and Dresses pack, that's not project ten dollar stuff, and you're most definately stealing it.

Why is it I suspect that the OP's not telling the whole story?

Did I say it came with the first game? Nope, don't believe I did.

It's fairly simple, bought the game (Just the game), couldn't find the dlc for it on Steam, which I would have bought. Went into the file and changed it to have the DLC. However, it is Project Ten Dollar stuff, cause Alice 1 is in the main menu after I did it. Of course I can't play it cause it's not actually there.

Though, like I said, it's fairly irrelevant because did all this months ago. Oh, it's actually reversible, set it back to FALSE and it's the normal game again. So even if it is minor theft, I'll just switch it back.

Well...

How did you do it months ago, it's only been out a single month and a week?

So, you unlocked the menu item for something that doesn't exist?

I'm confused as to what the whole story is here. Did you get the DLC or not?

Sorry, did it at it's release. Been playing the Half-Life series all the way through, thought time was going by.

I bought the game, normal version. I heard about DLC, I wanted it and couldn't find it to purchase. So, I changed the .ini file. See, the DLC is like on/off switch in .ini file. Set it to TRUE, you have it. Set it to FALSE, you don't. This 'DLC' includes Alice 1 (Which I didn't get cause Steam version doesn't give it to you) the extra dresses and extra weapons.

So set it to TRUE, played with it a bit and just recently set it to FALSE, so I don't have it anymore. Well, technically I still have it but not utilizing it.

Get it?

EDIT: Also, sorry for being douchey. I made this topic at work yesterday when me and buddy were having convo about it, I never thought it'd be this big.

 

[chiMmy]

Actually, I would say it's not stealing or well... fraud.

All you did was modifying a .ini file...


If they really didn't want that to happen, why did they put it in a simple .ini.
They could've encrypted the file or used a wierd format or just about anything at all to stop the possibility of easy "cracking".

I think there is someone in EA who doesn't like this "Project Ten Dollar"-idea.

 

[SoopaSte123]

Let's change the context a bit.

You buy a car, but the CD player is locked up somehow and the dealership will sell you the key. You decide to pick the lock yourself because fuck you it's my car.

Makes sense to me. If they didn't want you to have it, they shouldn't have included it in the first place.

I say you're ethically in the right.

 

[Kair]

Do we have to post this image so often?

 

[DracoSuave]

So let me get this straight.

Did the Steam package come with a free copy of American McGee's Alice? If so, then you got the Project Ten Dollar stuff you're supposed to get with a new copy.

If we're talking about the Weapons of Madness and Dresses pack, that's not project ten dollar stuff, and you're most definately stealing it.

Why is it I suspect that the OP's not telling the whole story?

Did I say it came with the first game? Nope, don't believe I did.

It's fairly simple, bought the game (Just the game), couldn't find the dlc for it on Steam, which I would have bought. Went into the file and changed it to have the DLC. However, it is Project Ten Dollar stuff, cause Alice 1 is in the main menu after I did it. Of course I can't play it cause it's not actually there.

Though, like I said, it's fairly irrelevant because did all this months ago. Oh, it's actually reversible, set it back to FALSE and it's the normal game again. So even if it is minor theft, I'll just switch it back.

Well...

How did you do it months ago, it's only been out a single month and a week?

So, you unlocked the menu item for something that doesn't exist?

I'm confused as to what the whole story is here. Did you get the DLC or not?

Sorry, did it at it's release. Been playing the Half-Life series all the way through, thought time was going by.

I bought the game, normal version. I heard about DLC, I wanted it and couldn't find it to purchase. So, I changed the .ini file. See, the DLC is like on/off switch in .ini file. Set it to TRUE, you have it. Set it to FALSE, you don't. This 'DLC' includes Alice 1 (Which I didn't get cause Steam version doesn't give it to you) the extra dresses and extra weapons.

So set it to TRUE, played with it a bit and just recently set it to FALSE, so I don't have it anymore. Well, technically I still have it but not utilizing it.

Get it?

EDIT: Also, sorry for being douchey. I made this topic at work yesterday when me and buddy were having convo about it, I never thought it'd be this big.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

No you technically don't own it, because it's not included as part of the purchase deal.

The reasoning is pretty simple: Possession doesn't equal ownership.

HOWEVER...

You can make a reasonable case that you had no idea that it wasn't included, due to the fact that it's part of what you, and what every other person with that software, was given... that the terms of the contract to buy it were not clear enough, and because they wrote the contract, ambiguiety favors you.

Do we have to post this image so often?

Every lie, repeated loudly enough and often enough, eventually becomes believed as the truth.

 

[wakkydude]

Yes, it is, no matter how you'd like to spin it to justify your actions. Theft is theft, digital or otherwise.

Theft is taking something without permission with the purpose of permanently depriving them of that item. You are not taking a code from them, or taking the DLC from them. It isn't theft. (It is STILL against the law though).

 

[Grospoliner]

Let's see. You altered the .ini file, and that unlocked the DLC? You used no third party software to do this? If that is the case then it's a failure on EA's part to provide adequate security. If you didn't violate the EULA then no.

More importantly though, ha ha ha.

 

[Lucane]

Hi everyone, this is about Project Ten Dollar.

So, I recently bought Alice: Madness Returns when it was released some time ago on Steam. Well, I was told there was a neat little DLC that gave me extras. EA pushing Origin so hard and didn't put it on Steam so I couldn't buy it, this DLC is like most/all of EA's, it's following the Project Ten Dollar template.

For those that are unfamiliar with this, it's essentially EA having DLC on the disc/data you purchased. So you still pay for it, but instead of downloading it, they simply 'unlock it' for you. So, as it was, it was actually there, I just couldn't use it. Well, being on PC, I just changed the 'Engine.ini' file to 'unlock' it.

So, I was curious, would you consider this a theft?

I'd say it's more akin to breaking and entering a theme park that has a small locked off area for a little more money you gain access.

You've paid to get into the part you can ride all the rides(in the main sections) but 5 or so rides require extra money but can't be ridden on their own without entering the main park.You have 2 options in getting to that inner area either pay at the gate or hop the fence either way when you return to the main section you get a pass to return anytime so nothing of their's goes missing or taken but their rides are being used without you supporting their efforts to make them so again I'd say it's more like trespassing.

 

[Moochkin]

id say that since you purchased the disk then technically whatever is on that disk is then yours, and as such you can do what you like with it. What they have done there is akin to selling you a car and then charging you for the key to get into the thing.

 

[Dalek Caan]

Your good man. You paid for it, you now own it. Don't see why you should have to pay extra. Just hope EA doesn't track you down. They have eyes everywhere.