Quit It, Gaming Edition

JourneyThroughHell

New member
Sep 21, 2009
5,010
0
0
Yeah, I don't think any of those are particularly important offenders. And I love Nathan Drake.

So, yeah... I don't agree with Bob on games again. What a shock.
 

Kaira Wolfe

New member
Mar 12, 2011
1
0
0
Bob: You want a good prophecy plot? Try Arcanum. Actually, that might be some monkey paw magic on what you're after, but it's a delightful and intelligent game with some brilliant dark humour.

Though it can be difficult and suffers from more than a few bugs and design problems, at least the ones typical to adventure RPGs, so you may get sick of it before the end.
 

MB202

New member
Sep 14, 2008
1,157
0
0
Blind Sight said:
MB202 said:
So you don't like blank slate characters? Is that why you liked Metroid: Other M? Because you actually got a "official" personality for Samus, even though her personality is that of an obsessive yet submissive woman, over-flamorizing a man who let her nearly get cooked to death and literally shot her in the back?

If that's not the case, then sorry, but it WOULD help explain why you actually defended that game. You know, aside from using it as another opportunity to call out the "trolls", though who exactly these "trolls" you're referring to are, I haven't the foggiest idea.
Trolls to Moviebob's work are usually just people who disagree with him. Like in the Other M review you mentioned, where he claims that everyone who called the game sexist is sexist themselves, despite ignoring a lot of the completely legitimate points some 'trolls' made. Intellectual professionalism isn't exactly Moviebob's strong suit, I usually enjoy his brain-storming videos but he really can't handle conflicting viewpoints on complicated issues.
I want to believe that MovieBob is mature enough not to think that everyone who disagrees with him is a troll, but it seems like the more he tries to fight against trolls, the more he sort of becomes one... It's also ironic that you say he can't handle conflicting viewpoints on complicated issues, because one of his videos was about dealing with conflict and controversy.
 

Simonism451

New member
Oct 27, 2008
272
0
0
Could we please add "Monarchy is the only true form of goverment" for Fantasy-Games (or better: the whole effin' Genre).
 
Aug 1, 2010
2,768
0
0
PhunkyPhazon said:
MrDeckard said:
Bob, please just stick to movies. It's what you're good at. Every time you put out an article on how games could be improved or make a video on why Halo is racist, it just hammers the point in.

Your movie stuff is fantastic and your non-game Big Picture vids are great, so stick to them.

Also, you continue to miss the point of everything having to do with Halo. The Cortana/Chief relationship has NOTHING to do with sexuality or chastity.
While I don't agree with everything in this article, I'd recommend you look up his videos as the GameOverThinker. The Escapist doesn't run them for some reason, but most of those videos are just as thought-provoking as his other stuff.
You have a good point. I was forgetting about them. For some reason though, the stuff he talks about as the GameOverThinker is ALWAYS better than the gaming stuff he does here.
 

ReiverCorrupter

New member
Jun 4, 2010
629
0
0
Some of this was good, some of it was stupid as all hell. I shall focus upon the latter category:

What is the alternative to the Russians? The North Koreans in Homefront? No. How would that be any better? It's still cold war era stuff. I guess you can have the Taliban, but like Bob said, in that scenario YOU'RE the overdog and THEY'RE the scrappy underdog. It just doesn't work. Would you prefer we go back to making games about WWII (all CoD and Metal of Honor games before a few years back)? Or how about Space Nazis (Killzone)?

Or how about some fight that doesn't resemble past history and the enemies are colorful and different? Oh... No... Wait... I forgot that Bob hates Halo.

Why? The Halo franchise is actually pretty unique, and it puts a lot of effort into story (outside of the games of course in the various novels). So why does Bob hate it? I hate to say this because it's so cliche, but it really is because he's an elitist. He hates it because it's popular. It was revolutionary in its day, and that's what made it popular.

And about Master Chief... He's SUPPOSED to be a blank slate. Not just so the player can project on him, but also because he was raised for war, and he never really had a childhood or friends. His entire life is self-sacrificing. And no Bob, the Halo universe DOESN'T glorify the Spartan program; it views it as a tragic, but necessary evil to insure the survival of humanity. The Spartans are people who have sacrificed their individuality to serve the greater good, they aren't really the Ubermensch. The books reflect the ethical issues, even if the games do not.

About angry young men... if the protagonist was passive and just accepted defeat then the games wouldn't be very long now would they? Granted, some act a little over the top (see 'The Force Unleashed'), but in general, I would expect people to be angry when they're in the position most protagonists are in. If they weren't, then that means that either they enjoy it, which either means they're sadists (which I somehow think Bob would disapprove of), or they're just emotionless lumps.
 

Nomanslander

New member
Feb 21, 2009
2,963
0
0
OtherSideofSky said:
I'm not sure why you picked Infamous as an example at the end. That guy seemed like he had pretty good reasons to be angry and distrustful: He got framed for blowing up the city, three different super-powered secret organizations wanted him dead, and the various covert government agencies wanted to use him in their internal political struggle. He certainly didn't seem like he was just being angry and waving a cause around while ignoring reality to me.
I'm pretty sure MovieBob has never played Infamous, because I don't remember him being angry at all. I guess it's just his face and voice that makes him sound angry. A lot like Nico Belic, now if MovieBob was to call Nico an angry fuck, and not very well developed, I'd know he has no clue what he's talking about.

>=/
 

PurePareidolia

New member
Nov 26, 2008
354
0
0
Taynas said:
PurePareidolia said:
Yeah, seriously Valve - if you want me to immerse myself in the role of "main character" in Half Life, stop calling me Gordon Freeman every five minutes.
I agree with you on a lot of your points but I found his silence despite not being a blank slate to be a silly choice but ultimately well done. I'm a woman so being told I'm some dude with a physics degree is not immersive. Talking is something he really should do but without it he has many character traits and is definitely not a blank slate. See my blog for a rant about this exact thing- http://knaccfornerdiness.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/half-life-2/
Also, sorry to tell you but I'm pretty sure a romance between Alyx and Gordon is intended by Valve. (listen to the audio commentary on episode 1 when you ride the elevator down to the core for a solid hint that way)
Well, it is Valve, they did a good job of making Gordon a non-vital part of any interaction so the others could have some exceptional exchanges, even if I would have rathered participating.
Also I've listened to that commentary, but all the same I think they fully intend to leave it ambiguous - Alyx hugs you in ep1 because she's relieved you're alive, she's as concerned about Gordon dying as any good friend would be, and though she jokingly asks if there's any room in his suit, maybe it's just me refusing to admit it, but it still sounds plausibly "trying to be funny" rather than flirting. Of course I'll admit all of these things really skirt the platonic line.
Again this could just be because being forced into a romance would irritate me no matter how much I like the character in question. And I think Valve knows this, so they're just doing the thing where they throw something out there and let you interpret Gordon's responses to his situation, without really elaborating on it fully.
 

Killclaw Kilrathi

Crocuta Crocuta
Dec 28, 2010
263
0
0
I always thought Arcanum did a good job with the prophecy thing. You start the game and are confronted by a man who is utterly convinced you're the reincarnation of his religion's saviour, destined to rid the world of a great evil. Then later on it turns out that...

...the guy you're supposed to be a reincarnation of is actually still alive, and you're just some bloke who managed to survive a blimp crash and stumbled over one of the requirements of the prophecy. But it still seems to give you the option of assuming whether you're the object of it anyway and it's all an allegorical thing, or if it's just plain wrong.

I must say I've never really had an issue with the "swoosh effects" with swords and the like, I always thought that was kind of par for the course in an RPG and made the battle look more interesting. But maybe a more subtle effect like the "distortion wake" you get when using melee weapons in Star Trek Online might be a good middle ground there.
 

Ipsen

New member
Jul 8, 2008
484
0
0
Warachia said:
These aren't really cliches, as this affects maybe 20% of videogames out there. Aside from that, again it comes across as one man whining because you offer no alternative solutions or give any examples of better products.
Buddy, when you think about some 20% of the games out there, you're probably talking about a chunk....slightly larger than the games we talk about mostly in general, whether on the escapist, or whats considered 'popular/good' (which I would say gives reason to discuss cliches). I could be wrong in that, but I have to say, it comes across as silly when you chop a +30 year entertainment medium into percents for your case.
 

internetzealot1

New member
Aug 11, 2009
1,693
0
0
There were a couple of good points in this article. And by that, I mean two. The rest is just Bob promoting his opinion.
 

The Big Eye

Truth-seeking Tail-chaser
Aug 19, 2009
135
0
0
Yeah, I know, Master Chief and Cortana are supposed to have this grand, symbolic, utterly chaste (because sexuality would make him weak and her tainted) Boy Meets A.I. thing going on...
Also because she's a computer program, you adorable f*ckhead. :p
 

JS ibanez

New member
Jan 12, 2010
266
0
0
yes yes YES. So glad to see glowing weapons in that list. Annoys the hell out of me. I have more fun dismembering people when I can see it happen.
 

RestlessDream

New member
Feb 27, 2010
6
0
0
internetzealot1 said:
There were a couple of good points in this article. And by that, I mean two. The rest is just Bob promoting his opinion.
I have to agree with this, there are some excellent opinions but it's slightly marred by Bob's own brand love. I mean seriously the entire article and Nintendo is completely innocent of all these crimes? I'm sorry but while there are some good observations in this it's only fair to point the finger at the entire game industry without exception. But that's my opinion.
 

freaper

snuggere mongool
Apr 3, 2010
1,198
0
0
I've thought about this before: what if the next FPS is about a poor Chinese farmer that gets enrolled into the army to defend his country against the invading American forces.

At least we won't have to shoot Russians/North-Koreans/other commies...
 

crimson sickle2

New member
Sep 30, 2009
568
0
0
I definitely agree on all points, although my biggest annoyance with current gaming is the "blank" characters. They can be angry young men, but they need to have their characters defined: what made them angry; why are they on this adventure; did something happen in their past; etc. Producers get bonus points for not putting this all in as exposition.
 

Warachia

New member
Aug 11, 2009
1,116
0
0
Ipsen said:
Warachia said:
These aren't really cliches, as this affects maybe 20% of videogames out there. Aside from that, again it comes across as one man whining because you offer no alternative solutions or give any examples of better products.
Buddy, when you think about some 20% of the games out there, you're probably talking about a chunk....slightly larger than the games we talk about mostly in general, whether on the escapist, or whats considered 'popular/good' (which I would say gives reason to discuss cliches). I could be wrong in that, but I have to say, it comes across as silly when you chop a +30 year entertainment medium into percents for your case.
If the 20% of the games are the good ones, and they have these cliches, did anyone think there might be a pattern?

Aside from that, yeah, it's a rediculous point, still not as rediculous as this column though, as he never thinks for a second about cliches handled well, which also led to some of my favourites, and he never realizes that what games follow is not nearely as important as how they differ.
 

Galaktia

New member
Jul 4, 2010
38
0
0
Nice one bob.

I don't know if anyone else will agree with me, as there is always a mixed receiving when you mention Harry potter, but I'd like to put HP forward as another snub your nose at profecy in a way.
Two kids match the discription, which ones the prescrived hero.... whichever one he tries to kill... suck that... if you don't try and kill one you get off scot free. Moron.


I certainly agree that the angry young man sterotype is over worked, and Hurray for that song, adding it to my collection as we speak. or should I say as I type an inane message :D.


I would on the other hand argue for the well implemented minigame... Fallout 3s lock picking... and the System shocks hacking minigames are both in my opinion a way of adding something to an enviroment. There is also another lock picking minigame that comes to mind but I can't remember the game, rather than turning a pickers pin and trying to rotate a lock you have to line up a series of lock pins... I believe it may have been Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
I think your right about a lot of things, except perhaps your very first point. Truth be told, the situation with Russia was simply on hold for a while, it actually resumed again quite a while ago. While it's mentioned in the mainstream media, it rarely gets the kind of focus that other issues do. People tend to have to be reminded that the Russians have been caught doing things like trying to assasinate world leaders to install ones friendly to them. There was a big deal about that years ago in Ukraine, and it was very much an East Vs. West conflict because they wanted their guy with pro-eastern sentiments, and we were in with the more popular (at the time) cantidate who had strong pro-western sentiments. They decided to poison the guy (slowly) and were caught, but only after most of the damage was done. It was "cold war" type manuvering at it's finest, execept for the media finding out about it (which was arguably a strategic move from our perspective). Since then Russia has been back in the form of their old USSR days, we had the invasion of Georgia, threats made against Poland for hosting a US missle interception base, and of course they decided to play "kick the can" with the EU for a while by cutting off their gas to make it clear to the EU that it was more or less under Russia's thumb.

I suppose to a peacenik left winger who was convinced that the USSR collapsed and the society actually begame progressive and stayed that way, it seems kind of "nutty" that things like this could be going on, after all the media isn't paying more attention to them (and it couldn't possibly have a political stake in deciding on what to focus on). In fact as "nutty" as the idea of Russia being ready to revert to it's old ways at "the touch of a button" goes, you might notice a lot of people predicted that, and that we shouldn't have been so lax when they collapsed, and instead stepped in to administer some "Hell's Angels First Aid". Russia maintained a huge mass of military hardware, including crazy numbers of tanks and submarines, not to mention a pretty massive nuclear arsenal. One of the things is that where Russia might not have more advanced technology, some of the things they did like virtually break their country by building so much stuff out of Titanium means that they can't be easily ignored. Russia's Subs still apparently have a depth tolerance greater than those of the US and most allied nations, and while not as stealthy that can represent a huge advantage in certain kinds of engagements.

The point is that when you look at things like "Modern Warfare", it's really not all that far off kilter. Russia went through a brief period where it looked like it might reform, and we gave them that chance, but there was always cause for concern. Since then they have been up to their old tricks, and while not as powerful overall as they were before (for a lot of reasons) they still represent a substantial military power. While Russia at this moment (though it could change) would be no match for the USA in a direct all or nothing throw down, it's still stronger than most world powers in a strict military sense. If the US wasn't behind the EU, Russia could literally overrun the place if it chose to. Not only is the EU dependant on it for fuel, but the EU has such a limited stockpile of WMD (something it acts proud of) that it's unlikely to be able to stop Russia with them due to it's sheer size if nothing else. If Russia decided to start lobbing ordinance into Europe and then rush their tanks in, it would be over if they were alone. Of course this COULD change if the EU puts more effort into military matters. Also the US is on their side, and that's why things like the missle base in Poland was such a big deal, it keeps them penned in because bases like that greatly limit the abillity of Russia to fire into, over over the EU with missles and such.

All of this has been analyzed in various places for years, while it's fantasy, Russia is one of those bad guys you can use in a "ripped from the headlines" fashion. Given that they have been invading countries like Georgia, and American intervention was discussed, it's not that far out there for this kind of game to envision a situation where Russia invades, and the US intervenes. What's more it's very true that we DO have better tech than them right now, which is easy to exagerrate for video game purposes into the whole quality vs. quantity dynamic for that lone wolf hero, or small "super elite force" perspective used for video games.

Incidently, there are other nations as well, like China that can be used much the same way. While a lot of people tend to take a "they are just rattling their sabers" attitude, China has been internally talking about invasions for a while, and building up a disturbing level of military force, while everyone ignores them. They are pretty much a super power, or pretty close to it right now. A lot of people might not LIKE to hear that, but again it's one of those situations that can be used for video game fodder, especially for Americans, because while the balance of power can change, right this minute if China decided to go a-conquering and demonstrated powerful enough anti-stallite technology (do a search for China, Lasers, Sattellies) to render the threat of long range WMD deliver/MAD irrevelent... well the only other super power out there that could oppose them would be the USA. Both the US and China doubtlessly bringing a lot of allies to the table as well (ie it's the "East Vs. West" World War III many people think is inevitable).


Now of course a lot of people think that using real countries and current politics as the inspiration for video games is a bad idea. Despite everything I said above, I have mixed opinions about it myself (which I won't get into sine this is long enough as it is). Irregardless of the touchy question of whether someone should be making games based around current conflicts and politics, as opposed to things that happened decades in the past and are verifiable history, the point is that if your going to be doing modern warfare games based around the USA going to war... then yeah, The Russians are still a pretty credible bad guy for us and have been for quite a while now.

Truthfully, with the polish game developers out there I have kind of been wondering when someone will finally get around to making a game like this from a European perspective. Their version of Homefront. EU politics and economic rivalry get to the point where they slot off the US who takes their toys and goes home to become isolationist again like sullen children. Russia curls it's snively whiplash mustache and without the US bases that were present decides to cut off the fuel, and starts a tag team alliance with China. China blinds european satellites so even it's relatively limited WMD stockpile is ineffective, and then we see a massive conserted zerg-rush through Eastern Europe as the powers that actually have military strength (Spain, France, The UK) throw their forces into the line there to hold them back, while in the meantime the US (since this isn't our game) continues to sit back and make popcorn while we watch, and laugh (in this scenario being too stupid to realize that once the EU is gone they are going to entrench there and then springboard to come after us eventually).

Sure, sure, there are some problems with it, but the point is a video game justification for setting "Red Dawn" in Poland with various European military units fighting overwhelming odds. Assuming people could get around the flashbacks to the similarity to things that have actually happened (Poland being made the battlefield "of choice" for other wars in the past) it could conceivably work. Then maybe people can stop complaining about how the US is the focus of every shooter out there, and who we may or may not be picking on by making them the bad guys. Truthfully I kind of wonder if people would complain as much if it was Europeans fighting Russians...