R4 Cartridges Declared Illegal in the U.K.

[rembrandtqeinstein]

Rather, you should break all unjust laws

Eh...can't say as that's a great idea.

Bear in mind laws are created to uphold social values, just because you think something's ok doesn't mean society does.

Case in point: Uninsured drivers do so to avoid paying huge insurance fees, people hit by uninsured drivers are shit out of luck. Cannabis use isn't necessarily bad in and of itself, but look at smuggling (I come from a country where it's not native and won't grow in the wild even if introduced, not for more than four months or so anyway) and there are definitely victims of cannabis smugglers!

Your definition of 'unjust' isn't necessarily the same as everyone else's.

I'll be polite and just say you have no idea what you are talking about.

Since I'm an adult who actually pays for insurance I know about a little thing called "Uninsured Motorist Coverage". I pay a little extra every month and if someone without insurance is at fault in an accident my insurance company pays for my medical bills and repairs. In other words the existence of uninsured drivers only affects me in the amount I pay for my Uninsured Motorist rider.

Cannibis can be grown indoors anywhere you have electricity and climate control. I bet the the guys at Antarctic research stations have some really good shit, because what the hell else is there to do?

You talk about society this and society that but in reality society is nothing more than a thought construct, it doesn't exist any more than "intellectual property" exists. The "social values" you say laws uphold are really nothing more than conveniences for the few people with guns and power.

Take responsibility for your own opinions and stop trying to shift that responsibility to "society".

I don't give two squirts of piss what everyone else thinks is unjust. What really matters are my values and morals, not what some legislature decided is the "law" just to make themselves, their families, and their peer group richer.

 

[Moriarty70]

Nintendo is to stupid to realize that no one has given a shit about the R4 in years. The original R4 team shut down over two years ago and every card on the market is a cheap knock off capitalizing on the name.

So go ahead and ban the shitty out dated carts with no features. I will keep my CycloDS.

I hate draconian security and locked software but I hate piracy more. It's theft and the thief's usual response is to shrug and basically say "You shouldn't have made something I wanted then".

"theft (θɛft)

? n
1. criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession "

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theft

Piracy is not theft, the original owner is not deprived of their product.

Fine, piracy is not in itself theft. It is however stealing the value of the product. By bootlegging software that is still available for sale you're taking away from the developers, the publishers, the distributors and, if you buy in bricks and mortar, the retailer.

So, once you've downloaded this item, you have then deprived these organizations, that employ real flesh and blood humans just like you and me, of their rightfully deserved money.

Now if we're talking about Abandonware than that's a different issue since no one stands to make money on something not commercially available.

 

[Pipotchi]

So what you're saying is... we are not required to obey the law if we don't feel like it?

Erm...No. Where'd you get that from?

What I'm saying is that on practical terms, outright banning said cartridges won't reduce their availability. They'll still be made illegally, and available as such. Same thing that happens when you ban pretty much anything, people find other ways to get it.

Oh wait, I get it now. You're saying that since laws are impotent and ineffective we shouldn't bother making them or attempting to enforce them.

You could be onto something here. Judging from the number of people robbed, raped or murdered every year worldwide, law does start to look like a failed experiment. If we can't even stop a man from dragging a woman into a dark alley, brutally anally raping her, slitting her throat and pocketing her purse, how can we expect to stop something as trivial as people using illegal piracy devices?

God, I just can't stop depressing myself every time I open my mouth.

I would be depressed as well if I talked about woman getting anally raped, seems like an unneccessarily graphic example

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

So then it was because it had a legal use it was legal regardless and today because it has a illegal use its illegal regardless....ya..... I smell lobby money and government corruption.....

 

[oktalist]

IANAL, but...

    
    
    	    	(i) manufactures for sale or hire, imports, distributes, sells or lets for hire, offers or exposes for sale or hire, advertises for sale or hire or has in his possession for commercial purposes any means the sole intended purpose of which is to facilitate the unauthorised removal or circumvention of the technical device; or
    	    	(ii) publishes information intended to enable or assist persons to remove or circumvent the technical device.

[td colspan=3]§296 (1) This section applies where - [/td] [td colspan=2](a) a technical device has been applied to a computer program; and[/td] [td colspan=2](b) a person knowing or having reason to believe that it will be used to make infringing copies -[/td]

Possessing an R4 is not unlawful, provided you do not intend to use it for commercial purposes.

Personally importing an R4 as a private individual for personal use is not unlawful, provided you do not intend to use it for piracy.

Selling or gifting an R4 is not unlawful, provided it is to someone who you can reasonably trust not to use it for piracy, such as a trusted friend.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Nintendo is to stupid to realize that no one has given a shit about the R4 in years. The original R4 team shut down over two years ago and every card on the market is a cheap knock off capitalizing on the name.

So go ahead and ban the shitty out dated carts with no features. I will keep my CycloDS.

I hate draconian security and locked software but I hate piracy more. It's theft and the thief's usual response is to shrug and basically say "You shouldn't have made something I wanted then".

"theft (θɛft)

? n
1. criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession "

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theft

Piracy is not theft, the original owner is not deprived of their product.

Fine, piracy is not in itself theft. It is however stealing the value of the product. By bootlegging software that is still available for sale you're taking away from the developers, the publishers, the distributors and, if you buy in bricks and mortar, the retailer.

So, once you've downloaded this item, you have then deprived these organizations, that employ real flesh and blood humans just like you and me, of their rightfully deserved money.

Now if we're talking about Abandonware than that's a different issue since no one stands to make money on something not commercially available.

What if you downloaded a game you would never buy otherwise? That deprives no one of nothing

That is the problem the pro IP/CP people can not figure out nor is the less rights and freedoms the public has the less money it has to spend on their frivolous crap the CP/IP shovel out....

 

[Moriarty70]

What if you downloaded a game you would never buy otherwise? That deprives no one of nothing

Then you're forced to ask yourself a few questions.

Why were you never going to buy it?
If you're planing on playing it why wouldn't you buy it/rent it?
If you're getting anything out of it, even if that's just killing time, aren't the people behind the creation of it entitled to the money you refused to spend?
What makes you special that you get to enjoy something without paying for it unlike everyone else?

I'm not perfect, I've done it before when I was a broke high-schooler, but now that I make a living I make a choice between what to spend my excess cash on.

 

[S_K]

There's a bit of a 2 sided coin here tbh I mean when I tried a friends r4 it gave me new understanding about how big a game physically actually was and how this actually had no relation with the price, but it also taught me how much game companies especially on the DS are ripping people off with garbage <.< I can understand why nintendo has tried so hard to fight this case, especially with how money hungry they are, but with the ratio of good to bad games on their system I almost feel it was partly justified too.

 

[midpipps]

Nintendo is to stupid to realize that no one has given a shit about the R4 in years. The original R4 team shut down over two years ago and every card on the market is a cheap knock off capitalizing on the name.

So go ahead and ban the shitty out dated carts with no features. I will keep my CycloDS.

I hate draconian security and locked software but I hate piracy more. It's theft and the thief's usual response is to shrug and basically say "You shouldn't have made something I wanted then".

"theft (&#952;&#603;ft)

? n
1. criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession "

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theft

Piracy is not theft, the original owner is not deprived of their product.

I think you should scroll down a little on that page and take a look at the legal definition

Legal Dictionary

Main Entry: theft
Function: noun
Etymology: Old English thiefth
: LARCENY; broadly : a criminal taking of the property or services of another without consent
NOTE: Theft commonly encompasses by statute a variety of forms of stealing formerly treated as distinct crimes.

you are taking their intellectual property without consent. therefore you are a thief.

I just don't understand why if you are not planning on buying said product what gives you the right to take it without paying for it. If you do not think it is worth your money then don't get it and don't play it. If you want it but cannot afford it save up for it. I am sorry there is no reason at all that if the game creators are asking for money for this game you should get it for free. Either buy it or don't play it that simple.

 

[Mr.Petey]

I think it's stupid to make this cartridge illegal, why is that piece of plastic illegal? It's not physically dangerous, it has perfectly legal uses.

Guns have a perfectly legal use, they are still outlawed in England.
On the flip side, the people who pirate the games get them from the internet. They should make that illegal too.

Excellent point. This excuse of people downloading games and such with the age old excuse of "It's too expensive!" needs to have the line drawn and if legality plays a role in infringing on the "right" to pirate games then so be it.

Yes there are expensive cartridges on the online/high street shops but there's no harm in waiting a few weeks for them to drop a few bucks in price after release date surely? Plastic cartridge games for the DS and such will always be a more expensive than the alternative disc format.

On a slightly different note, a spokesperson for ADV films (who distributed anime on VHS and then DVD) insisted with an accusing finger that downloads DO cripple the market for commercial endeavours because nobody is buying their product and instead finding it virtually "stolen" instead so they can enjoy the game/film without any of the money going back into manufacture.

 

[oktalist]

So then it was because it had a legal use it was legal regardless and today because it has a illegal use its illegal regardless....ya..... I smell lobby money and government corruption.....

Linux geeks have been trying to tell you this for the past decade.

How the hell do you think people grow cannabis in a non-native country without smuggling? How do they get the plants or seeds? Those need to be brought in illegally and the number of people who grow compared to the number who buy from dealers is tiny anyway, almost a statistical aberration.

There have been many times where breaking unjust laws was a good idea. See civil disobedience [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience].

Off-topic: Importing seeds is not unlawful in this country AFAIK. You're right about smugglers being a bad sort of people, but if cannabis was legal then that wouldn't be the case. Then they wouldn't have to take risks or carry weapons. It would be a legitimate, taxpaying business, like alcohol, cigarettes, coffee, fast food, sodapop, videogames... all of which are seen as immoral by vast segments of the population.

 

[Wintermoot]

I dont live in the UK and if they keep it all a secret its A-OK you can always order online and I think its forbidden to open up mail

 

[T'Generalissimo]

This ruling seems a little bit weird to me. Somebody tell me if I'm misinterpreting it, but the implication seems to be that if you use a product in a way that the manufacturer disagrees with, then you're breaking the law. Because the R4 isn't inherently a piracy devise, right, it's just that it can be used for piracy?

 

[night_chrono]

Fine, piracy is not in itself theft. It is however stealing the value of the product. By bootlegging software that is still available for sale you're taking away from the developers, the publishers, the distributors and, if you buy in bricks and mortar, the retailer.

So, once you've downloaded this item, you have then deprived these organizations, that employ real flesh and blood humans just like you and me, of their rightfully deserved money.

Now if we're talking about Abandonware than that's a different issue since no one stands to make money on something not commercially available.

Your assuming that pirating is a lost sale. Having been unemployed for six months, and only making around $5000 a year before that, I pirate because I can't afford to play games otherwise. If piracy was somehow completely shut down, I would not start buying anything I would just go outside or something.

I understand that developers should be paid for their work. I do buy games when I have the means. However I usually only have the means around Christmas when its the steam holiday sale.

Also in the rare case I do go buy I game I usually get it used since it's cheaper. Now the developers aren't getting any of that money, so is piracy any worse than that?

 

[Loonerinoes]

Personally I think that how Nintendo will do in the US will test yesterday's law in practice very well. For me, if it is sufficient to rebuke the lawsuit, then it seems as if the law does indeed apply to all. But if in the end the argument like "Oh, but that's just for Apple, this is totally a different thing!" will prevail well...meh...then that law would seem moreso to me as just a result of some industry lobbying against competitors.

But eh...too little info to judge anyway. Just comment and watch it happen.

 

[Moriarty70]

Your assuming that pirating is a lost sale. Having been unemployed for six months, and only making around $5000 a year before that, I pirate because I can't afford to play games otherwise. If piracy was somehow completely shut down, I would not start buying anything I would just go outside or something.

I understand that developers should be paid for their work. I do buy games when I have the means. However I usually only have the means around Christmas when its the steam holiday sale.

Also in the rare case I do go buy I game I usually get it used since it's cheaper. Now the developers aren't getting any of that money, so is piracy any worse than that?

I had said in my response to Stubee, unemployed/broke is a little more of a gray area and I've been guilty of that myself which is why I make the effort not to now. It is still a luxury though, not a necessity.

I would say at least 90% of the time though it is a lost sale, especially considering many games pirated are new releases on PC that require a decent machine to play on, that had to be bought fairly recently. This would suggest that these people have the means to buy the product anyways.

On a side note, if you're looking for games at a crazy good price year round. Good Old Games. Mostly stuff from the 90's and I support that site with a firery notaligic passion.

 

[squid5580]

Oh god, first this and then that law about removing your internet connection for piracy. I for one don't pirate, I hate piracy, but even I think they're getting a little too strict over it.

Uh huh.

Still, it doesn't really matter, they'll still make R4's and you'll still be able to buy them, just the same as something like Mephedrone being banned. It just moves underground.

I can see which position they're coming from, but like all prohibitions, I can't see this one working.

So what you're saying is... we are not required to obey the law if we don't feel like it?

Isn't that the call of the pirate?

 

[not_the_dm]

I hate draconian security and locked software but I hate piracy more. It's theft and the thief's usual response is to shrug and basically say "You shouldn't have made something I wanted then".

"theft (&#952;&#603;ft)

? n
1. criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession "

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theft

Piracy is not theft, the original owner is not deprived of their product.

You sir deserve cake.

Sorry. I got peckish.

 

[midpipps]

Fine, piracy is not in itself theft. It is however stealing the value of the product. By bootlegging software that is still available for sale you're taking away from the developers, the publishers, the distributors and, if you buy in bricks and mortar, the retailer.

So, once you've downloaded this item, you have then deprived these organizations, that employ real flesh and blood humans just like you and me, of their rightfully deserved money.

Now if we're talking about Abandonware than that's a different issue since no one stands to make money on something not commercially available.

Your assuming that pirating is a lost sale. Having been unemployed for six months, and only making around $5000 a year before that, I pirate because I can't afford to play games otherwise. If piracy was somehow completely shut down, I would not start buying anything I would just go outside or something.

I understand that developers should be paid for their work. I do buy games when I have the means. However I usually only have the means around Christmas when its the steam holiday sale.

Also in the rare case I do go buy I game I usually get it used since it's cheaper. Now the developers aren't getting any of that money, so is piracy any worse than that?

But see even this argument is flawed so you do not have the money that is fine and you can only afford the odd game here and there which is also fine. But pirating is still not fine. I went through a long stint in college where I could not afford to buy any games and guess what during that time I just did not play any new games I asked for them from parents and friends for christmas and birthday otherwise I went outside.

If you are not going to pay for the game you have no right to be playing the game. At least if you are playing a used game then someone at some time had payed for that game and at least once they sold it to gamestop or whatever they have relinquished their copy of the game so it is not just making more copies. They have in theory moved the game from their possession to yours. So both of you are not playing the game at the same time. Where as pirating the game is not only not even at least 1 sale for every 2 or 3 people that play the game. But it may be 1 sale to the initial uploader for hundreds or thousands of copies of a game where everyone in the chain still has the copy they got while giving more copies out to others.

I am sorry if you are unemployed or are not making the wages to be able to buy games. But there are tons of legally free games out there I can give you the sites of at least 20 without even having to work to hard or even deals like the humble indie bundle that comes around where you can pay as little or as much as you would like for games. So why do you think it is ok to get a paid version of a game for free?

 

[Sevre]

They really take their time with these things, it's far too late to declare them illegal when the 3DS is about to come out.