Racism in Skyrim?

[Araxiel_1911]

The high elves that think they are so superior that humans and other mortals need wiped out. The one that want the civil war dragged out as long as possible to maximize human casualties and increase the odds of destroying them utterly and completely.
Fucks sake visit an Orc stronghold. They hate everyone. Thalmor patrols want to kidnap you and torture you so you will confess to something you did not do; they hate humans as an inferior species THAT FUCKING MUCH!

While I love the racism (that sounds wrong) in the elder scrolls series, I actually think that here, they could have done even more involving your character.
I've got a (female) high-elf, but am a bit dissapointed by how less the Imperial care. Wouldn't the legion question it when a high-elf joins their ranks? I could be a spy afterall. What sort of really dissapointed my was that the Thalmor do not seem to care either that I'm 'one of them'. During the embassy mission I was wearing an elven armour, but the guards attacked me on sight anyways. Shouldn't my character be able to pass as one of the many guards? Of course, this was made for the sake of having balanced gameplay and not giving high-elf players an advantage in that mission, but I would have actually prefered if they would less care about balance and more about role-play, which would mean making it possible to disguise as a guard and recieve recognition during the party.
When I entered Windhelm, I witnessed two Nord harrasing a dark-elf for just living in Skyrim, but nobody minded an high-elf that joined the imperial legion jumping around Ulfric's throne room while he and his advisors where talking about secret battle plans.

I just have the feeling that, while the atmosphere the racism in Skyrim creates is great, it is too much of an NPC based aspect and your character is not affected by it.

 

[jthwilliams]

well you might argue that it is speciesism rather than racism as I don't think the human's and the mer can inner-breed. Also the nords only seem to really dislike emperials because emperials abuse the nords. They don't seem to be very any redgaurd for example.

But I'm just being pedantic. Yes, there is a very strong "Skyrim for the Nords" theme.

The Bretons were supposed to be the offspring of Wood Elves and either humans and Imperials, or something right? Which accounts for their enhanced lifespan. (Case in point a certain Breton character you meet looks young and blonde but is in her late fifties)

Then I am wrong.

But I will point out that scifi and fantacy are always the worst about confusing species and race and threating them as having the same meaning. (for the record the difference is that if two beings of different races have sex they will have a child that is a combination of the traits of both and can have futher children with either race. If it is a different species then they either can't have a child at all or the child will be unable to reproduce) There I simple biology lesson for the gaming community.

*EDIT*
@binnsyboy just wanted to add that the part of the definition wasn't directed at you as your post makes it clear you know. It was just for the gaming forum at large since sci fi and fantasy books nad games seem not to know.

 

[Tigurus]

I believe Morrowind had it a bit worse. With racism, slavery etc.
Fun times. But hey! It's war and society! WhoO

That is true, I cant remember a single time in Morrowind where I saw a Khajiit or Argonian that wasnt a slave. Why are those two groups hated so badly by the other groups?

They're the 'beast races', and have always been seen as primitives by the elves, who occupied Tamriel long before the human races showed up.

So the reason for all the hate against the Khajiit and Argonians is exactly like what happened in South Africa, or well any country that was colonised by a colonial power. The Colomial power comes into a country that is not theirs and stomps on the natives?

Well, you could see it like that. Though it's the Imperials that "colonized". Not the Argonians and all.
I reckon it's just the same as here. They look different so they are. That what I reckon about the Argonians and Khajiits anyhow.
For the Nords it's pretty much that they want their land back. When people want their land back, They want it for themselves. Hence why nationalism can fuck up equality a lot. Look at the area around Bosnia.

 

[TPiddy]

I had someone call me a "Milk-Drinker".... I beat them and took their soul... now who drinks Milk? Well, I still do... but since there's no milk in the game I drink mead mostly.

 

[walrusaurus]

Its not like its a new thing. tamriels always been a place filled with racial tension.

The Imperials hate the argonians
the Nords hate the Altmer
The Altmer hate everyone
The Dunmer hate one another
The Bretons hate the Dunmer
Everyone Hates the Kahjit.

Its miraculous the entire ball of wax hasn't dissolved into civil war before now.

 

[Owen Robertson]

Racism has always been a part of TES. Elves hate each other, but humans more. Humans hate khajiit and argonians more than elves, and even the races of human beings have some pretty fucked up perceptions about each other. It's not like a game in Victorian England or Ming Dynasty China would be different.

Yep, racism abounds in Skyrim, damned Nords think they can push me around.... I am Breton and proud, and I would sooner fight 10 Draugr Deathlords without being able to Fus Ro Dah them off a cliff then leave Skyrim because some pansy with braids in his hair and an over-compensatory axe told me to.

Hey, if you don't like my country than you can just git owt!

 

[jthwilliams]

well you might argue that it is speciesism rather than racism as I don't think the human's and the mer can inner-breed. Also the nords only seem to really dislike emperials because emperials abuse the nords. They don't seem to be very any redgaurd for example.

But I'm just being pedantic. Yes, there is a very strong "Skyrim for the Nords" theme.

The Bretons were supposed to be the offspring of Wood Elves and either humans and Imperials, or something right? Which accounts for their enhanced lifespan. (Case in point a certain Breton character you meet looks young and blonde but is in her late fifties)

well you might argue that it is speciesism rather than racism as I don't think the human's and the mer can inner-breed. Also the nords only seem to really dislike emperials because emperials abuse the nords. They don't seem to be very any redgaurd for example.

But I'm just being pedantic. Yes, there is a very strong "Skyrim for the Nords" theme.

They actually can, the child will take on the race of the mother. There was an in-game book talking about it. Not many will admit to having a father of a different race though, because it is a taboo thing. The book even touched on something like Imperial and Kahjiit pairings, and that it was apparently possible, but no records exist because of the racism against the beast races.

Yeah, ok. I appear not to know my TES lore as well as I thought I did. But thanks for the references.

 

[teebeeohh]

yeah nords(N'wah) are racist because they can't see the value of having one of the oldest and most powerful people in Tameril move into their lands, it's not like skyrim is overpopulated, they keep complaining that their people are getting killed in wars.

besides, all the races that are part of the empire should stop bitching, everybody in some kind of union always thinks they are the ones who get screwed worst by the system (just ask any EU country) but down the line everyone is better of as a part than standing on their own. Yes the Empire was forged with blood and steel and fire(and levitation, i want that back) but over the centuries most people have been better off as part of the empire, without the empire the whole fucking continent would be slaves or at least the Nord would be the Aldmers bitches with no chance of turning the tide. the Way it is now the Empire can still win but if everyone jumps ship they are screwed(and yes, the gold-something-somthing peace treaty thing was a mistake, especially considering how hammerfall held their own, all alone but maybe the Emperor new something we don't or he just wanted to stop the bloodshed and give the people of the empire a chance to catch their breath.

 

[Irridium]

Hail Snipsis

Lore time:

The Nords and many elf races have been fighting each other since the dawn of time. The Falmer are a direct result of this constant fighting (they were the original Skyrim elves who were driven underground for millenia where evolution took a nasty turn with them). The Nords even managed to conquer Morrowind for a time before being pushed back to Solstheim by Nerevar and the Tribunal gods (they were just elves back then).

The Nords are generally distrustful of all outsiders but the Imperial hatred is a little more recent due to the banning of Talos worship (due to the Imperial peace treaty with the Thalmor). Since Talos was originally a Nord man, the Nords took special offense to this .

The Khajiit have never been trusted by other races in general. Most Khajiit have an inborn tendency to be thieves and bandits. Of course, not all of them are bad but enough are that it became a stereotype for the entire species.

Those Redguard warriors (we're talking about the Ali'kr right?) are not supposed to be in the city. Whiterun is supposed to be on lockdown due to the Dragon threat and you are the only exception to that rule since you brought first-hand report of the Dragon attack on Helgen.

Oh I know all that. Just saying that the rebellion and everything was just making the whole race issue worse. Or, that's what I meant to say, at least.

I dunno about you guys but I usually play as a Dunmer. All I got from that guy was a bit of pity and a comment about the Gods abandoning my people.

Huh, didn't know that. Though considering what happened in Morrowind it makes sense.

 

[The Funslinger]

well you might argue that it is speciesism rather than racism as I don't think the human's and the mer can inner-breed. Also the nords only seem to really dislike emperials because emperials abuse the nords. They don't seem to be very any redgaurd for example.

But I'm just being pedantic. Yes, there is a very strong "Skyrim for the Nords" theme.

The Bretons were supposed to be the offspring of Wood Elves and either humans and Imperials, or something right? Which accounts for their enhanced lifespan. (Case in point a certain Breton character you meet looks young and blonde but is in her late fifties)

Then I am wrong.

But I will point out that scifi and fantacy are always the worst about confusing species and race and threating them as having the same meaning. (for the record the difference is that if two beings of different races have sex they will have a child that is a combination of the traits of both and can have futher children with either race. If it is a different species then they either can't have a child at all or the child will be unable to reproduce) There I simple biology lesson for the gaming community.

*EDIT*
@binnsyboy just wanted to add that the part of the definition wasn't directed at you as your post makes it clear you know. It was just for the gaming forum at large since sci fi and fantasy books nad games seem not to know.

Yeah, well the general look makes you think "well, surely these must be different species". And let us not forget "magic" as the overruling answer to our puny human logic. Still, as you point out, the biology of it implies the mer and humans are merely racial variants.

Also, there was an orc character that was stated to be half imperial human and half orc in Oblivion. Whether or not his doodle could still diddle properly was (unfortunately) never touched on in the game. Though orcs in Elderscrolls are merely a variation of mer (elves). But I'm sure you all know that.

 

[cgaWolf]

"So I want to know if I am the only one who has experienced this racism..."
Your forgetting the golden rule. Furthermore these Redguards are looking to abduct a woman... hah.

She deserves to be abducted & put on trial!

Spoiler

Found that out when playing my Reguard warrior - i ofc sided with my kinsmen & brothers in arms (slight OOC action: i ninjaed a scimtar), turns out she's a traitor who sold out Hammerfell to the Thalmor Dominion,

 

[rutger5000]

Well you have to admit that the stormcloacks do have a point on the redguards. Redguards are known for their notorious threatment of woman.

 

[Mrrrgggrlllrrrg]

The high elves are more racist than the nords.

Most little towns and villages dont hate on race but the khajit do fit their own stereotype of shifty skooma dealers, just saying every kitty merchant I found sells skooma and moon sugar.

But then again considering skooma usually has crippling addiction rates and negative effects the skyrim skooma might just well be sugar water to scam money out of those annoying nord teens.

Although civil unrest usually leads to fantastic racism but most of the racism in game I've seen has been mostly kept to hubs. But then again everyone hates the dragons/Giants and they're a sentient race so everyone is a racist.

 

[castlewise]

Oh yes, its definitely in game. Try playing one of the more hated races like an argonian or khajiit.

(Although I have come to realize that the npcs will call you "milk drinker" whether or not you are khajiit. I didn't realize that at first and it made me uncomfortable)

 

[dead.juice]

I haven't heard the Whiterun guards talking about Khajiit or Redguard being racist, but while I was in one of the cities (not sure if it was Riften or Windhelm), I saw a couple Imperials harassing a Dark Elf woman. they threatened to come to her house late at night and assault her. This exchange happened a few feet away from my Dark Elf shadow-mage.
I considered tracking her home and keeping a watch on her house that night, but I didn't think there would really be a scripted attempt for that in the game, and I'd just be wasting time. Besides, there should be enough guards patrolling the place to keep her safe...right?
Does anyone know if they actually follow through with this plan? Because my Dark Elf is sitting on his ass at Breezehome, and he'd like nothing more than to exterminate some Imperial scum from that city. (if I could only remember which one it was )
The guy has a Thalmor robe buried in his chest at breezehome from an encounter he had with a group of these stuck-up supremacists escorting a prisoner for torture just because he worshiped Talos. Slaughtering a couple of Imperial brutes would be fun to him.

 

[Aethren]

I believe Morrowind had it a bit worse. With racism, slavery etc.
Fun times. But hey! It's war and society! WhoO

That is true, I cant remember a single time in Morrowind where I saw a Khajiit or Argonian that wasnt a slave. Why are those two groups hated so badly by the other groups?

They're the 'beast races', and have always been seen as primitives by the elves, who occupied Tamriel long before the human races showed up.

So the reason for all the hate against the Khajiit and Argonians is exactly like what happened in South Africa, or well any country that was colonised by a colonial power. The Colomial power comes into a country that is not theirs and stomps on the natives?

No, the Elves were always in Tamriel with the beast races, always enslaving them. Then the humans showed up and fought with the elves. Only the elves enslaved the beast races, the humans didn't.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Everyone has experienced this, its a pretty big theme in the game. People are dicks to you if you're argonian or khajiit or occasionally if you're orc or dunmer, the guard to Windhelm pretty much refuses to let you in if you're argonian...

Also, isn't it more speciesism than racism?

 

[MarineSquadDeployed]

There's quite a bit of funky racism going on in the Reach, which I found pretty interesting. Basically, it seems like the Breton-ish natives of the Reach have been or are being systematically displaced by Nord conquerors, mainly led by the Silver-blood family (who, if Ulfric wins the Civil War, will take over as Jarls of the Reach).

It makes me a bit frustrated that you can't actually join the Forsworn (basically the Breton resistance), since they're quite clearly the good guys in the conflict (for a given value of good).

Though there seems to be some in-story confusion regarding whether or not the natives of the Reach are Bretons. The castle chef at Markarth will say something to the effect of "I'm a Breton, not a Reachman. I came here from High Rock", while one of the in-game books (I think Madmen of the Reach) notes that the Bretons and the Reachmen have some distinct similarities.

 

[IlikeLolis]

There is Racism cuz Racism is Real and Dramatic.

2 Things the Elder scrolls likes to be is Realistic and Dramatic so it's actually their job to be racist.

 

[Thanatos5150]

Racisim is actually a pretty big thing in Elder Scrolls. It's a mainstay of the series, just like the whole starting-off-in-prison thing.
Try booting up Morrowind as something *other* than a Dunmer sometime. Your reaction scores with Dunmer NPCs drop like rocks.