Rage: Get over it.

[Yopaz]

snip

This thread is about misinformation and people not reading to see the truth when it's written in front of you.
Your agenda is noted and ignored but thank you for proving my point.

In the interest of not writing another WoT I will simply say to you very good,such is your opinion and I thank you for proving my point as well by ignoring the issue as if this specific nuance is not directly tied into the heart of the greater issue. Your cry to combat ignorance doesnt really work if you ignore elements of what your trying to discuss

So you still claim that they should not be allowed to offer something extra for those paying full price for the game? It's extra content that you have to download, so you're not paying to unlock something already on the disc like so many complains about. You're not missing something related to the story if you buy it used, you're simply getting more single player gameplay.

The problem here is not that they're giving us free dlc for buying the game new. The problem is that Escapist had their article named "Rage Cuts Single-player When You Buy It Used". Rage inspires rage because of that article, not because we hate getting extra stuff.

This has been done by several others. Alan Wake let you get The Signal for free when you bought the game new. Content was not on the disc and you had to download it. Used buyers did not get it. The difference is that The Signal wasn't finished when Alan Wake was so you had to hold on to the code a little longer.

So can you point out exactly what makes this difference than any other kind of dlc coupon that comes with the game? Why is this worse?

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Thank you! Also, I gota ask, how many people actually buy used games? I hardly know anyone who buys used games, or hard copies in general.

I buy used games. If I'm browsing in a shop and something in the used section catches my eye I'll probably buy it. It's usually only older games I get used, not new releases.
Hard Copies are preferable for me. Disc install > Download on my current net connection. That and I like the box art. Brightens the place up a little.

 

[Phishfood]

It might just be me and the town i live in, but where the hell do you even buy second hand books and dvds? I've never seen a barns and nobles sell second hand books nor a suncoast sell second hand dvds, the point seems moot to me since every game store i have ever been in has a used game section while other media stores don't.

I'm in Preston, NW UK. And I can find second hand DVD/books all over the place. For a start charity shops are stuffed full of them, car boot sales and there are a couple dedicated second hand book stores around. Libraries also sell of old stock cheap. Heck, libraries give books away for free. The publishing industry seems ok with this.

If they take out key features like that then it becomes unplayable, gross exaggeration doesn't help your point.
When you buy second hand anything you have to be prepared for the fact that it may not work and won't be as new.
If I bought a second hand copy of the Elder Scrolls: Morrowind GOTY edition would I receive the paper map or the manual? Probably not, it's second hand.

However you're actually viewing this as a punishment, it isn't. It's a small incentive to buy new, this is no worse than anything else others have done.
You haven't lost the right to resell an item, it just means the bonus you got for buying it new will not be given to the guy who got it for $20 unless he pays another $5-10 which is still cheaper.

It may be exaggeration right now, but can you promise me some marketing whiz won't think its a great idea to make a second hand game mostly unplayable? Heck, already digital downloads are impossible to sell on second hand. I have a LOT of games on steam, the only way I can sell one on is to sell the whole account.

And yes, it is punishment. You might not get a game in perfect condition second hand, then again you might be buying from someone like me who makes a point of keeping manuals and maps in which case you DO get everything. No, it won't be pristine but the depreciation in value should be natural based on the actual condition of the game not imposed by the publishers arbitrarily.

This stuff does not just kill second hand sales but also stops lending. I can't count the number of games I have only bought after borrowing from a friend. Can't do that now, its all about the DRM and unlock codes.

captcha: engineer; uallowat

bad engineer!

 

[Sjakie]

Dont really care what you think.
I dont like it and think it's still a ripoff for anybody who might buy the game brand new in 2-4 months and might have to do without that content or pay extra to download it by then!

My main gripe is that content gets praised as 'bonus on pre-order' while it actually is 'premium content'. With premium i mean that you pay (often extra) for it.

I have no trouble with premium content, BUT DONT FUCKING SAY IT'S A BONUS WHICH IT CLEARLY IS NOT!!!1!



i feel a bit better now.

 

[scott91575]

I've got a better idea:

People not liking what Rage, and other games like Rage that denied MP access: Get over it.

I mean really, this entire thread is basically you saying "Well the sewer access thing doesn't look like such a huge deal to me, so nobody should be upset over it."

Also, you talk about misinformation, but look at the misinformation you are spreading yourself:

Look Gamers you need to stop and take a breath when something gets reported, read about it first. This isn't the first time you've had something like this.
Remember Mass Effect 2 and the Cerberus network? This is exactly the same, except Bioware didn't say that they're locking it for single player use at all. The Cerberus Network was a bonus you got for buying a new copy, bit of armour, a gun, Zaeed, comic and then there is more stuff once you actually bought other games like DA:O, even doctor pepper promotional items.
Did you feel like you were being taken advantage then?

Guess what, free DLC is NOT the same thing as having content removed. And no, the sewer thing is not DLC just because "you download it". All you're downloading is an unlock key as this is the only way to restrict content. The content is already in the game, but locked away. You have to download the unlock key to use it, and if you have the code that comes in every new game you can redeem that to get the unlock code for free. If not, you have to buy an unlock key. This is in no way shape or form the same thing as Mass Effect 2 DLC, which is extra content. Not locked content. If you're going to make a comparison, please make a proper one.

I suggest that you yourself watch Jimquisition, because if anyone here needs a lesson about words being a powerful tool, it's you.

Actually, this is a very similar tactic to day 1 DLC, just done with a little more slight of hand. Publishers are pretty smart, and this came about due to some backlash from day 1 DLC. On a disc or not, it is still content that is available to retail buyers but not to used game buyers.

We don't really know the value of this content, so how valuable this actually is can be debated. Yet used buyers are not the pockets they are trying to get money from here. They are the ones with a limited budget and stick do it. That demand curve is pretty rock solid. What they are trying to do here is get the maximum amount of money from people who buy a game retail. People who buy retail, especially day 1 retail, might actually be willing to pay more. Instead of launching a game at $70 and slowly lowering the price within a month (which ticks off buyers), they use this tactic to do a similar thing while still being able to advertise a price of $60. It's pretty cool economic slight of hand. As can be seen in this thread people who buy the game new actually think this has no affect on them and/or they are getting something for free. When in reality these are the people they are getting the extra cash from. Day 1 DLC is a similar tactic.

In the end, all of this is experimentation to get the maximum amount of money they can without raising the advertised price. Publishers hate the fact some people are willing to pay $70+ dollars for a game but get it for $60. By using these tactics they can increase their revenue similar to raising the retail price without actually having to do it.

 

[Lyri]

Oh, cut nothing, they cut many things within the Dev process themselves. Also, any DRM is more from the publisher side, not the Dev side, Dev's get regular salary, then more money or bonus when the game sells a lot. Publishers make money from the game simply selling. So no, nothing is nothing, nothing is non-existent, but, a sewer level IS something. Nothing he said is damaging himself either.
And he didn't prove your point, either. To be honest, hes more in the right then you are, for several reasons.
One, his points are ALL valid.
Two, and this is super statement, its fighting used games, but used games are still legal copies. So they have 0 to no right to do this.
Three, if its trying to fight piracy, its not working, because you can still cut out any DRM with pirate copies.

In total, its just punching legal buyers in the face instead of punching the people selling consumers the game without paying money to the Publisher and Development team.

Yet again.
This thread was about misinformation within this community thanks to one poorly titled article from the escapist.
Threads are popping up like RAGE has suddenly done something like awoken the antichrist or something equally catastrophic.

Also you're arguing against yourself here because Viranimus himself said he realises they cut nothing from the actual game itself.
Do calm down and have a cup of tea or something dear.

This isn't the first time it has happened for the gaming community if we have to go into this.
As I pointed out earlier, if you buy Mass Effect 2 new you get access to the Cerberus Network. If you buy it used, you don't and you'll probably be able to buy a code to unlock it.
Also look at cross platform editions of things, several games have given away different items for simply being on a different console, why is that ok but not ok limit used games?
Nintendo regularly bring out the same game twice and just fill it with different sprites, yet nobody gets on their horses about how Pokemon is milking the gaming community when they could just dump all the information onto one cartridge.

Games are luxury items in this day and age, if you buy second hand you'll just have to get used to the fact that it won't be the same as a new copy because the person that bought it new will get to use all the good stuff.
Just like everything else really.
If you can't find enjoyment in a game because you've lost what is essentially a negligible amount of environment, then I feel bad for you.

In the interest of not writing another WoT I will simply say to you very good,such is your opinion and I thank you for proving my point as well by ignoring the issue as if this specific nuance is not directly tied into the heart of the greater issue. Your cry to combat ignorance doesnt really work if you ignore elements of what your trying to discuss

At least your amicable, I'll accept that.
This is more about peoples reactions to a poorly worded article (Look at the bottom of the page and you can see that title).
People are furiously grinding their fingers on the keyboard because rage has been advertised as cutting something, when as we know it's just a nifty little bonus being given as incentive for new purchases.

 

[Aprilgold]

-cut for room-

Again, I don't have to say anything besides content that was made to be shipped with the original game VS. a code that makes future DLC's free. Do you see the difference. Rage's sewer levels were made to be shipped with the game, while Mass Effect 2's code was made to give a bonus armor and weapon, along with future DLC's being free. Mass Effect's didn't take a certain part of the game and lock it, while Rage's is locking content made for the original release. Honestly, that was my point. Not exactly argueable, but if you insist, go ahead.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

It seems stupid that they are just cutting off part of the game and saying "No, we want more money for our game so you can't have this."

 

[fKd]

this just in, some gamers have a false sense of entitlement and are quick to cry in public. shocking...

haha you know what, id should have said nothing at all.

 

[Lyri]

I've got a better idea:

People not liking what Rage, and other games like Rage that denied MP access: Get over it.

I mean really, this entire thread is basically you saying "Well the sewer access thing doesn't look like such a huge deal to me, so nobody should be upset over it."

Also, you talk about misinformation, but look at the misinformation you are spreading yourself:

Look Gamers you need to stop and take a breath when something gets reported, read about it first. This isn't the first time you've had something like this.
Remember Mass Effect 2 and the Cerberus network? This is exactly the same, except Bioware didn't say that they're locking it for single player use at all. The Cerberus Network was a bonus you got for buying a new copy, bit of armour, a gun, Zaeed, comic and then there is more stuff once you actually bought other games like DA:O, even doctor pepper promotional items.
Did you feel like you were being taken advantage then?

Guess what, free DLC is NOT the same thing as having content removed. And no, the sewer thing is not DLC just because "you download it". All you're downloading is an unlock key as this is the only way to restrict content. The content is already in the game, but locked away. You have to download the unlock key to use it, and if you have the code that comes in every new game you can redeem that to get the unlock code for free. If not, you have to buy an unlock key. This is in no way shape or form the same thing as Mass Effect 2 DLC, which is extra content. Not locked content. If you're going to make a comparison, please make a proper one.

I suggest that you yourself watch Jimquisition, because if anyone here needs a lesson about words being a powerful tool, it's you.

No where in my OP do I call the sewers DLC, I even say it's locked. You're making a fuss about what exactly?
The fact I compared used buyers not being able to get get free dlc to the fact that some people who buy used aren't getting a sewer level in rage?
Pretty petty.

-cut for room-

Again, I don't have to say anything besides content that was made to be shipped with the original game VS. a code that makes future DLC's free. Do you see the difference. Rage's sewer levels were made to be shipped with the game, while Mass Effect 2's code was made to give a bonus armor and weapon, along with future DLC's being free. Mass Effect's didn't take a certain part of the game and lock it, while Rage's is locking content made for the original release. Honestly, that was my point. Not exactly argueable, but if you insist, go ahead.

The code doesn't make all future mass effect DLC free at all which is why your basis of comparison is a little faulty.
However if you buy new you gain access to the stuff the next person to buy won't be able to get, effectively the same problem.

They're the same thing, side missions and areas being locked. If it's on the disc or not it doesn't matter, you are still being denied that bonus because you bought a used copy and you can still buy a code if you wish.

 

[Vault Citizen]

Thank you! Also, I gota ask, how many people actually buy used games? I hardly know anyone who buys used games, or hard copies in general.

I've bought quite a few used games, sometimes they are a lot cheaper.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I have to love the hivemind attitude in threads sometimes.

OT: Congratulations someone doesn't agree with someone else on the internet and Escapist and they think the other party is overreacting this is a new occurrence. It happened with MW2 and other games and it will happen again. This is an internet forum about games where people are supposed to voice their opinions on games and you are more than welcome to do so as well but don't pretend to be humble when you are basically calling another's opinion childish.

The whole point of the locked content issue is that they are making it out to be something of an ACII thing where they had the missing memory blocks and the game felt incomplete and rushed into the ending at least to me. When this is really just a free piece of DLC akin to something EA is doing(could be locked though).

If people do boycott Rage did you ever thing there might be other reasons [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/95955-John-Carmack-Says-No-Dedicated-Servers-for-Rage]? You probably shouldn't be so quick to jump to judgements yourself either as people may not be boycotting for why you think. Given that there are a few reason not to buy Rage I would hardly call it a pristine AAA title either we have yet to actually play the game and see how it does. For all we know this could actually be on the disk and we have to download something to just unlock and not the actual sewer system which is where a large part of this problem stems from as well(Fable 2). Locking content which you have bought and included on the disc is wrong.

 

[Druss the Legend]

Well, where does it stop?

Think of it this way.
If you sell your car onto someone else, thus it becoming second hand; does the car manufacturer have the right to take the seats away from the recipient just because in their point of view, they're losing profit?
From your perspective, they do.
It'll apply for other things too if this kind of thing continues such as maybe, scenes from movies?
I think adding content rather than taking away is a better incentive to buy brand new.

 

[Yopaz]

True story; I bought ME2 with the DLC and I still haven't used my Cerberus Network key. I enjoyed the game just fine and dandy.

How do those relate? Thats armor and a weapon, while this is a area of the game? Thats like comparing a movie that is action, fast paced and a thrill ride to a romantic novel. Sure, there are more missions, but those missions are more like short shooting galleries, again, area of a open world game, focusing on loot and combat VS a 3rd person shooter focusing on exposition and gun play, both are not very similar. And I'm sure plenty of people would kill for that key. Again, you telling everyone to bridge a gap thats longer then a continent, when they could just wallow through the waters of understandable hate is a little perplexing. The bridge would take a lot of time and maintenance, and allow a potential issue to rise up in the future, when we could fight this potential issue now, instead of later when its dragon sized.

Cerberus network comes free with the purchase of a new game.
Sewers come free with the purchase of a new game.
Cerberus network can be bought as a dlc if you bought the game used.
The sewers can be bought as dlc if you bought the game used.
Cerberus Netowrk activation gives you 2 extra missions + some weapons.
The sewers give you one new place to explore.

So far they're not very different in my opinion. They're both extra content that you can buy if you bought the game used,

Also, do you blame developers for doing this?
If a game doesn't sell well enough there wont be a sequel. Now if 30% of the sales were second hand sales that cut into 30% of the sales. So let's say 100 million copies has to be sold for the game to get a sequel. Let's say the game sells 120 million copies. According to the publisher's statistics that means the game sold 84 million copies. Thus no release.

Also keep in mind this extreme scenario: All GameStops go bankrupt. Can Developers still make games? Yes.
All developers go bankrupt. Can GameStop still sell games? For a time, yes, but on a long term view, no they can't.
If developers suffer, GameStop suffers. If GameStop suffers developers earn more money.
Now, which party's suffering creates the most suffering and which party could you live without?

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Jeez, i thought for a second this threads title was 'rape: get over it'. Im glad i was wrong.

 

[Rynozeros]

-snip-

Guess what, free DLC is NOT the same thing as having content removed. And no, the sewer thing is not DLC just because "you download it". All you're downloading is an unlock key as this is the only way to restrict content. The content is already in the game, but locked away. You have to download the unlock key to use it, and if you have the code that comes in every new game you can redeem that to get the unlock code for free. If not, you have to buy an unlock key. This is in no way shape or form the same thing as Mass Effect 2 DLC, which is extra content. Not locked content. If you're going to make a comparison, please make a proper one.

Actually it's so similar that it might as well be called the same.

On one hand you have Mass Effect 2's Cerberus Network, a one-use key that unlocks content (unavailable without the key) for free on Day 1 if you buy the game new at retail, else you have to pay for it. The game is completely playable without it.

On the other you have Rage's Sewers, a one-use key that unlocks content (unavailable without the key) for free on Day 1 if you buy the game new at retail, else you have to pay for it. The game is completely playable without it.

The only difference here is that id has opted to put the content on the disk instead of a server.

 

[Phishfood]

Cerberus network comes free with the purchase of a new game.
Sewers come free with the purchase of a new game.
Cerberus network can be bought as a dlc if you bought the game used.
The sewers can be bought as dlc if you bought the game used.
Cerberus Netowrk activation gives you 2 extra missions + some weapons.
The sewers give you one new place to explore.

So far they're not very different in my opinion. They're both extra content that you can buy if you bought the game used,

Also, do you blame developers for doing this?
If a game doesn't sell well enough there wont be a sequel. Now if 30% of the sales were second hand sales that cut into 30% of the sales. So let's say 100 million copies has to be sold for the game to get a sequel. Let's say the game sells 120 million copies. According to the publisher's statistics that means the game sold 84 million copies. Thus no release.

Also keep in mind this extreme scenario: All GameStops go bankrupt. Can Developers still make games? Yes.
All developers go bankrupt. Can GameStop still sell games? For a time, yes, but on a long term view, no they can't.
If developers suffer, GameStop suffers. If GameStop suffers developers earn more money.
Now, which party's suffering creates the most suffering and which party could you live without?

Have to stop you there at the bolded part. I have a monthly budget for computer games. The simplistic representation is

wage - bills = games budget*.

Lets say in a given month my games budget
comes to £50. So, I can either buy 1 game new or 2 games second hand. Therefore my 2 second hand purchases do not equal 2 lost sales. Additionally, whomever I bought the 2 second hand games from now has £50 they can spend on a new game. Thats probably WHY they were selling second hand in the first place.

To be honest, fuck gamestop. Brick and mortar stores dedicated to games are doomed. Lets kill em and be done. As I said above, my argument is more that this ALSO stops me lending or gifting this game and it is liable to escalate. Sure, now its one or two missions that you lose second hand. What is the line? are you going to be happy when a game loses 50% of content second hand? what if its 75% and the second hand copy becomes nothing more than a demo? If we don't say no to this trend it will continue and it will escalate.

*and booze and DVD, but that clouds the issue.

 

[CountryMike]

Things like this really aren't fair to offline gamers. Its perfectly reasonable to buy an expensive console and a $60 game and expect all the content of said game. DLC is ok as long as it is available on disk.

It's 2011. Who doesn't have internet? It's as strange as having no running water or electricity.

 

[Twilight_guy]

People don't want to spend money. Gamers feel like they are entitled to every bit of content that a developer makes for a game. I don't know why gamers feel that if a company makes something for a game they deserve it for free. I think ti's just tradition. Anyways, as a result gamers don't want to pay for they see as theirs from the start. In actuality you can't prove that all content is mandatory to be released together and you can't say that your in the right anymore then the developer can. Anyways, I think lots of people are upset because they see the entire single player experience being cut off rather then just one level. That's a miscommunication problem (which isn't helped by the deceptive Escapist story title on the issue).

 

[Baradiel]

Not going to lie, I read the title of this thread as "Rape: Get over it"...

I have no intention of gett Rage. No idea what its about, really, and I have hno interest in it.

But I fully support the developers with this. I buy pre-owned games all the time. I got Mass Effect 2 pre-owned (I didn't know at the time. Same price as new, with the sanem stickers. Bastards at Game.) so I haven't got Zaeed. It doesn't matter to me. I didn't enjoy the game less because I didn't have something, because I never had it.

Seriously, cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.


Captcha: Israeli Life... Lets not get political, captcha...