Rammstein: A question of political beliefs..

[Lord Kloo]

A simple matter really, I know many, many people who say they're right wing neo-nazis who hate women and gays ect..

but as a fan of their music I really can't find much in any way to suggest this, (I could decifer the translation of every lyric of every song but it probably sounds better in German so I won't) the band themselves deny being facists and proclaim to be apolitical and towards the left if forced to make a choice..

So Escapists, in your infinite banks of knowledge where do you think their politics lie, if they have any at all..?

EDIT: I know they have a general tend to seem extreme, sadistic and otherwise slightly wierd but I can't really link this to being a facist undertone of political beliefs..

 

[Thaluikhain]

Is a person's creative work an infallible indicator of their beliefs?

Let us suppose that the music was flat out obviously neo-Nazi. This could mean that either they are neo-Nazis, or they are trying to appeal to the neo-Nazi audience. Those aren't mutually exclusive, but even so, there's alot of wiggle room there.

 

[Suicidejim]

Oooh, a Rammstein thread. Well done sir, well done.

If I remember correctly, the song "Links 2 3 4" is actually a response to this criticism. Personally, I've always seen them as quite apolitical for the most part, if somewhat left-leaning. Let's face it, most of this controversy wouldn't exist were it not for the fact that Rammstein are German, and sing in their native tongue, and decades of war films and Medal of Honour games have made the german language come across to most English speakers as, well, a teensy bit fascist. It probably doesn't help that their musical style is quite heavy, and a few songs certainly sound militaristic in nature (and again, Germans + military sound = Nazis, for quite a few people).

EDIT: Actually, this thread got me thinking a little to see if that really was all there was to the "Rammstein are Neo-Nazis" argument, so I did a little searching round and found quite an interesting article:

http://www.azure.org.il/download/magazine/101307_Berlinski_Azure_20.pdf

Now, I personally strongly disagree with a lot of the conclusions the author draws from the band's lyrics, videos, comments, etc. I stand by my position that Rammstein are apolitical, and have no tendency towards facism, and I think the article interprets some of the images and lyrics carelessly. But, nevertheless, a few interesting points are made in the article, and there are some interesting perspectives from the band themselves. I found the whole dilemma of German pride to be an interesting one, certainly.

 

[Terminal Blue]

They love to flirt with the fact that some people (particularly those who don't speak German) get the impression that they're Nazis purely from their style of music. Laibach (who are one of the Neue Deutsche Härte's most notable precursors) used to take the whole thing much further by dressing up in SS uniforms for photo shoots and stuff, so it's hardly a new thing.

I know there are people actually on the far right who have the impression that Rammstein have far right sympathies, because I've seen people making Nazi salutes at their British concerts. It pissed me off at the time but actually, good on them because they're making themselves look like idiots and I think that's the point. I love the idea of a bunch of fascist pricks rocking out to 'mann gegen mann', or thinking that 'mein land' is totally "their song" because they only understand the chorus, and I think the band do too which is why they deliberately seem to write some of these songs to cultivate that quality. Remember, if there's one thing you can say about Rammstein lyrics, it's that the band knows very well how they will be misheard.

The only thing I can possibly think of is that a couple of their songs have references to German folklore, which occasionally has quite nationalistic overtones, but really.. no..

One more thing of course.. the band's members mostly grew up in East Germany under an autocratic government. Till Lindemann refused military service and was almost put in prison. Richard Kruspe was beaten by police for showing up at an anti-government political demonstration and subsequently fled East Germany. I think the idea that they're somehow in favour of fascism is a little weird, given that.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

They love to flirt with the fact that some people (particularly those who don't speak German) get the impression that they're Nazis purely from their style of music. Laibach (who are one of the Neue Deutsche Härte's most notable precursors) used to take the whole thing much further by dressing up in SS uniforms for photo shoots and stuff, so it's hardly a new thing.

I know there are people actually on the far right who have the impression that Rammstein have far right sympathies, because I've seen people making Nazi salutes at their British concerts. It pissed me off at the time but actually, good on them because they're making themselves look like idiots and I think that's the point. I love the idea of a bunch of fascist pricks rocking out to 'mann gegen mann', or thinking that 'mein land' is totally "their song" because they only understand the chorus, and I think the band do too which is why they deliberately seem to write some of these songs to cultivate that quality. Remember, if there's one thing you can say about Rammstein lyrics, it's that the band knows very well how they will be misheard.

The only thing I can possibly think of is that a couple of their songs have references to German folklore, which occasionally has quite nationalistic overtones, but really.. no..

I love the idea that they're the musical version of Al Murray, the Pub Landlord, just trolling the racists into showing their true colours

I have to admit, this is my favourite Rammstein clip ever, tho, who could watch this and consider them a dangerous threat to...well, anything but lederhosen and accordions?


(Been years since I have been able to link that one )

 

[Suicidejim]

Well I remember someone posting a video of theirs around here that was probably the gayest thing I ever saw. And I mean like it screamed gay in a um... nearly pornographic fashion .__.

*looks it up* Was called "Mann gegen Mann". If they have a serious problem with gays I'd have to wonder how they could stand making that.


But regardless, while I don't go specifically looking to listen to music much what I've heard from them I've liked. Then again I can't understand any of the lyrics, but I like the sound. And that's all that matters to me. Well so long as it doesn't turn out to be saying something horrible, but from what I've seen it isn't.

Yeah, that one's all about (unsurprisingly) homosexuality. And yeah, they tend to go overboard like that. The music video for their song 'Pussy' is literally porn involving the band. Not in the sense of being really suggestive or anything, no, I mean, literally, porn. They're certainly fond of pushing boundaries.

 

[Hazy992]

Well they actually wrote the song 'Links 2-3-4' to state that they were on the left of the political spectrum
Honestly, I think a lot of people say it simply because they're German, which is just unfair.

 

[GoaThief]

No, they aren't racist at all to my knowledge.

A lot of neo-Nazis are involved with the black metal scene, however.

 

[Kvaedi]

No, they aren't racist at all to my knowledge.

A lot of neo-Nazis are involved with the black metal scene, however.

All that NSBM nonsense is just ridiculous. Musically inept men wearing facepaint, who likely would have been executed in Nazi Germany, yet for some reason revere it nonetheless....

Anyway, on topic. No, they are not Nazis, and I have a hard time even imagining them being homophobic either. The fact is, they're a German band that sings in German. They will get these accusations no matter what they do.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I don't beleive for one minute they are of that way... From what I remember after showing the album sleeve to my German teacher at school (who subsequentally got into them! Man he was cool!) I remember that there was a song about a heart bleeding after losing a loved one, a song about a hermaphrodite falling in love with themselves, (yes - it even has a bit that says something about not getting upset when to to 'go fuck yourself'! My teacher was in hysterics after reading this!) and I thnk there was a tearjerker about a dead child... That's all I rememebr...

So no, I don't remember my teacher ever saying that anythig from the Mutter album was anything to do with right wing facism!

Also: @Lord Kloo, I like your profile pic!!! I'm hoping to get a better one taken soon to replace mine with, more similar to that!

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Rammstein are really left wing.

They are certainly not homophobic, as evidenced by their many songs and videos bursting with homo-erotic lyrics and imagery.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

For me, the only palatable and downright amazing album of Rammstein is their first one, Herzeleid. It's just brilliant. Raw and crude, yet right up there with, say, KMFDM. And it was just about their last album made up of enjoyable tracks, with no skippable filler whatsoever.

Politically, there's really nothing there to be unearthed. As far as I remember, they all didn't like life in the now defunct communist/socialist German "Democratic" Republic too much, one of them even daringly escaped before it collapsed - remember that the GDR had a wall (to keep 'fascists and capitalism out') with soldiers that would shoot you if you tried to get out of your lousy country!

If I can tell you one thing about the places these guys grew up and lived in, it's this: they still feel raw and at any given concert, you'll likely find your audience made up of 50% goths and time-capsule metal heads, the other 50% (declining) is bald and not very welcoming to new or different stimuli. Poverty and dilapidation are still issues, more than twenty years after the experiment of a communist eastern Germany failed miserably.

If anything, I'd say Rammstein were enjoying their newly gained - artistic and personal - freedom, and their kinky and fiery pet peeves were more straight from the heart than elaborate marketing ploys. On just about every album, there's a single track I must own, so they caught up to how, say, KMFDM do business. The last concert I wholeheartedly enjoyed was back in 1997, but the kids seem to be happy with what they get now. If Rammstein is Nazi, then Marilyn Manson eats babies for breakfast and Justin Bieber is the son of Satan.

 

[Poetic Nova]

I actually quit listening to them since every other song was about sex and whatever since the album "Mutter". I actually sold my whole collection. Only album I don't want to get rid of is "Sehnsucht", that one is pretty neat.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I wondered this myself a while back, so I did a little digging around the internets.

They've denied any affiliation with Nazis and things of that sort. In fact, if you listen to lyrics in some of their songs, they are pretty lefty.

 

[Creator002]

I don't understand German at all, but I always thought they were anti-Nazi's. There's a music called Hitler (similar to Sonne), and I always felt it was a critic to the Nazi's.

But as I said, I know nothing of german.

I haven't heard that one in a while, but from what I remember, the lyrics are basically the names of German cities (where I assume concentration camps were), but there is a couple of "Heil Hitler/Himmler" in there. However, looking a Rammstein's track lists, that song is not by them.

OT: Rammstein has written a song about homosexuality (Mann gegan Mann and it's not against homosexuals or homosexuality) and another song about people wanting them, Rammstein, on the right, but their heart beats on the left (rough translation of the chorus of Links 2 3 4, which they wrote as a response to the Nazi criticism). So, I think they'd make fairly terrible Nazis.

 

[razer17]

They are very much not Nazi. In fact, they addressed this point in at least one of their songs that I know of. Links 2,3,4 (on the album Mutter), has a chorus which goes along the lines of "They want my heart to be on the right, but when I look down I see it beats on the left" essentially saying they are aligned to the political left, and are not neo-nazis.

I also can't imagine them being homophobic, since they have a song about having sex with a hermaphrodite (Zwitter, also on Mutter)