Rating Fallout's Factions - (Spoilers inside!)

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm sure everyone remembers ye olde "Stormcloaks vs Imperials" debate that raged during Skyrim. That topic had legs for a couple of reasons...the first being Skyrim's absolutely absurd popularity and longevity, the second being it was actually a pretty difficult choice. Both factions had numerous pros and cons, and I agonized about it for tens of hours before finally picking one and feeling depressed about it.

So I thought I'd run down Fallout's factions du jour, and maybe look back on a couple of New Vegas factions while I'm at it, to see how well they were put together. There will only be three ratings given out. TERRIBLE, for actively lousy factions, MEDIOCRE, for problematic ones, and UNREALIZED POTENTIAL, for ones that were almost good but hey...Bethesda.

There will be spoilers below straight to the end of the respective games, so be warned.

[HEADING=2]FALLOUT 4[/HEADING]

BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL - UNREALIZED POTENTIAL

I'm going to go out on a limb here...BoS in Fallout 4 is as close as we've come to a good/interesting faction in a modern Fallout game. There was a nice blend of the kind of inherent nobility that attaches itself to "peacekeeping" forces ("We're here to help!"), mixed with a militaristic zeal and proto-facist aspirations. I never felt comfortable supporting the Brotherhood, but I never felt comfortable opposing them either. I was wary of their membership when meeting them and running missions, and felt remorse when I was eventually forced by plot machinations to openly attack them. Tonally, I'm not sure I see many areas for improvement. Obviously writing and characterization could be better across the board.

THE INSTITUTE - MEDIOCRE

The Institute has a lot of promise...a bunch of scientists, cloistered away from the perils on the surface, working "for the betterment of mankind", and increasingly the "betterment of mankind" begins to resemble "the betterment of the Institute". There was fertile ground there for exploring the slippery slopes involved in anointing oneself a savior. And of course, they wanted to explore some popular science fiction themes about whether or not AI's have free will, etc. The fact your Son is down there leading things had the potential to give things some extra emotional heft...really complicate matters.

How could it have been improved? Well, it was cartoonishly evil, for starters. You meet them well into the game, after being exposed to a near non-stop parade of their varied unprovoked depredations, and after meeting a variety of extremely kind and caring Synths who CLEARLY have both free will and a capacity for emotion. Your son acts like a creepy wacko and freely admits to using you as an experiment. The scientists all sound like budding Mengeles. It's silly. Even as an evil faction they're not terribly compelling, because they lack the sang froid and fuck em all attitude that "Raider" characters would naturally gravitate towards.

Had your son acted like a human being, greeting you with love and compassion, and had he viewed the Institute as a problematic entity that he was CERTAIN the two of you could "change from the inside" together, it could have been a very interesting grey area. Alas.

THE RAILROAD - MEDIOCRE

Tempting to slide them down to terrible, for the simple reason that they're overly sympathetic. Binary factions are boring, and The Railroad are clearly positioned as "The Good Guys" almost from the start. They're all charismatic and friendly, and seem to be engaged in a genuinely good cause. Clear parallels are drawn to various resistance movements from history. They get a bit antsy towards the end, but ONLY after being attacked. They get a bump to mediocre because Tinker Tom, Glory and Deacon were all engaging characters.

Could've been greatly improved if you'd gotten into the grey, murky waters that rebellions are often forced to swim in. The Railroad needed to get some blood on their hands, and make the player question whether they were truly on the side of the angels. Rescuing a clearly murderous synth, perhaps, and be asked to protect it all the same because its flaws were the sins of its creators. Or killing some otherwise lovely people who happened to be anti-synth propagandists.

THE MINUTEMEN - TERRIBLE

I hesitate to even call them a faction. Bunch of bland do-goodniks.

[HEADING=2]NEW VEGAS[/HEADING]

THE NCR - MEDIOCRE

The NCR has some potential...a large, not terribly focused governmental body starting to groan under the weight of its own bureaucracy. Alas, this was more of an informed quality than one we got to see in action. The NCR were generally polite, seldom showed meaningful instances of corruption, and were positioned against a field of extremely evident maniacs. "Do you want to side with this GOVERNMENT, which has the same issues ALMOST EVERY GOVERNMENT HAS, or do you want to side with some SLAVING, RAPING LUNATICS? Or this MEGALOMANIACAL TYRANT? Oooh, choices!

In a more interesting dichotomy, the NCR could and should have been positioned as more or less safe, but ever so gradually pressing their boots down on everyone's neck. Unnecessary restrictions on freedoms, heavy taxes, demonstrate some of the worst excesses of a ruling body. Have them show little awareness of or compassion for the individual. And then have the Legion as a gang that celebrated the individual and always had your back, wanted to solve all your problems, but believed in some pretty violent and xenophobic ideals. Alas.

THE LEGION - TERRIBLE

Honestly, these guys are a fuckin' joke, and one of the strongest arguments against the suggestion that New Vegas is a "well written" game. If The Institute eventually appear to be cartoon villains, then Caesar's Legion are a collection of cartoon Hitlers. They are utterly irredeemable in every aspect. Vicious, hierarchical, mono-gender, brutally restrictive and conservative, wildly paranoid, hilariously bigoted, the list goes on and on and on. They slave and pillage and murder without compunction, but unlike Raiders (who do it for hedonistic reasons) or The Institute (who do it in service of a cause) they're never really properly motivated. Is it a cult of personality? Caesar seems like a bit of a soggy biscuit, however much I enjoy his voice actor, and they carry on just fine once he's gone. What kind of society do they imagine they are building? What's the reward for the individual members? If this was a small gang observing this strict privation and violent militaristic routine, you could maybe believe it, but these guys are suggested to be a vast army, of a size enough to legitimately threaten the NCR and BoS both.

It's ludicrous. They're stupid. And they infect the entire game too, this is not a fringe faction.

I won't touch on House, he's a man, not a faction. He was ok I guess. Nothing to write home about.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

THE LEGION - TERRIBLE

Honestly, these guys are a fuckin' joke, and one of the strongest arguments against the suggestion that New Vegas is a "well written" game. If The Institute eventually appear to be cartoon villains, then Caesar's Legion are a collection of cartoon Hitlers. They are utterly irredeemable in every aspect. Vicious, hierarchical, mono-gender, brutally restrictive and conservative, wildly paranoid, hilariously bigoted, the list goes on and on and on. They slave and pillage and murder without compunction, but unlike Raiders (who do it for hedonistic reasons) or The Institute (who do it in service of a cause) they're never really properly motivated. Is it a cult of personality? Caesar seems like a bit of a soggy biscuit, however much I enjoy his voice actor, and they carry on just fine once he's gone. What kind of society do they imagine they are building? What's the reward for the individual members? If this was a small gang observing this strict privation and violent militaristic routine, you could maybe believe it, but these guys are suggested to be a vast army, of a size enough to legitimately threaten the NCR and BoS both.

It's ludicrous. They're stupid. And they infect the entire game too, this is not a fringe faction.

I just beat New Vegas (I didn't realize you couldn't go back and play after the assault on Hoover Dam so I just stopped playing, even though I had a bunch more quests I wanted to do,) and a few times it is mentioned that Legion territory is the safest for travelling merchants (as long as they happen to be male,) so I reckon there would be lots of people who would tolerate the Legion as long as they were safe. They were a little too heavy-handed, I agree, but it still felt good to straight up murder those rapist assholes. One of my favorite parts of that game was talking with Caesar, and eventually telling him to fuck off

 

[WolfThomas]

I say this a lot, even though I went NCR. But Caesar's Legion is a choice for evil characters. In previous Fallouts you can be lying, murderous scumbag and still have to fight the main badguys, because the Master was still going to turn you into a supermutant or the Enclave would still exterminate you for being genetically impure.

Caesars legion is a faction where might makes right. You can be a terrible person, but because you're strong you can rise through their ranks and have a place of huge importance. They're never really meant to be a morally sound option,

 

[IceForce]

A well-written post, Guppy.

One thing I'll say is that Bethesda seem to be rather bad at writing properly 'evil' factions with any sort of depth to them. All we end up with is a bunch of cardboard-cutout moustache-twirlers.
We saw this with the Thalmor, the Enclave, and now with the Institute.

 

[Zontar]

Caesars legion is a faction where might makes right. You can be a terrible person, but because you're strong you can rise through their ranks and have a place of huge importance. They're never really meant to be a morally sound option,

I think the main problem Guppy has with the Legion is the fact they're stupid-evil. Their society is one which is cartoonishly evil with there being no logic for it becoming more then another small band of raiders. Even the Khans made more sense as a society which threatened the fringes of the NCR. Caesar's Legion on the other hand just doesn't have the type of social structure or the military mentality that a society required to survive in that setting needs.

One thing I'll say is that Bethesda seem to be rather bad at writing properly 'evil' factions with any sort of depth to them. All we end up with is a bunch of cardboard-cutout moustache-twirlers.
We saw this with the Thalmor, the Enclave, and now with the Institute.

At least the Enclave and Institute make sense as a mini society onto themselves. It makes sense that the military, political and corporate leadership of the US would have their descendants be as evil as the Enclave after all, and for them to have a stable society and hierarchy. The Legion, not so much.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL - UNREALIZED POTENTIAL

I'm going to go out on a limb here...BoS in Fallout 4 is as close as we've come to a good/interesting faction in a modern Fallout game. There was a nice blend of the kind of inherent nobility that attaches itself to "peacekeeping" forces ("We're here to help!"), mixed with a militaristic zeal and proto-facist aspirations. I never felt comfortable supporting the Brotherhood, but I never felt comfortable opposing them either. I was wary of their membership when meeting them and running missions, and felt remorse when I was eventually forced by plot machinations to openly attack them. Tonally, I'm not sure I see many areas for improvement. Obviously writing and characterization could be better across the board.

while they certainly pronounced it when they arrived about saying "we're here to help!", they were certainly xenophobic and were NOT open to new ideas (I'll touch on that more later with the railroad) such as what happens with your follower, even though he was a devout member of the brotherhood. I totally get the not with them/not against them either bit, but I feel like you're making them a bit too..."good" so to speak, which maybe that improves them in your eyes, idk.

THE INSTITUTE - MEDIOCRE

The Institute has a lot of promise...a bunch of scientists, cloistered away from the perils on the surface, working "for the betterment of mankind", and increasingly the "betterment of mankind" begins to resemble "the betterment of the Institute". There was fertile ground there for exploring the slippery slopes involved in anointing oneself a savior. And of course, they wanted to explore some popular science fiction themes about whether or not AI's have free will, etc. The fact your Son is down there leading things had the potential to give things some extra emotional heft...really complicate matters.

How could it have been improved? Well, it was cartoonishly evil, for starters. You meet them well into the game, after being exposed to a near non-stop parade of their varied unprovoked depredations, and after meeting a variety of extremely kind and caring Synths who CLEARLY have both free will and a capacity for emotion. Your son acts like a creepy wacko and freely admits to using you as an experiment. The scientists all sound like budding Mengeles. It's silly. Even as an evil faction they're not terribly compelling, because they lack the sang froid and fuck em all attitude that "Raider" characters would naturally gravitate towards.

this I do agree with, as scientists and as people who literally made the synths, you'd think they'd be open to the idea of free will individual machines and not instantly go to the "nah, slaves bro, slaves." routine.

slightly off topic, the more I played the game and saw how the synths moved, they more and more reminded me of the ns5's from I-robot

Spoiler: even with their dialogue

Had your son acted like a human being, greeting you with love and compassion, and had he viewed the Institute as a problematic entity that he was CERTAIN the two of you could "change from the inside" together, it could have been a very interesting grey area. Alas.

ugh yes, after meeting him, every word out of his mouth kept making me think "no..noo...noooooooooooo, stahp, you fucking ruined this plotline."

THE RAILROAD - MEDIOCRE

Tempting to slide them down to terrible, for the simple reason that they're overly sympathetic. Binary factions are boring, and The Railroad are clearly positioned as "The Good Guys" almost from the start. They're all charismatic and friendly, and seem to be engaged in a genuinely good cause. Clear parallels are drawn to various resistance movements from history. They get a bit antsy towards the end, but ONLY after being attacked. They get a bump to mediocre because Tinker Tom, Glory and Deacon were all engaging characters.

Could've been greatly improved if you'd gotten into the grey, murky waters that rebellions are often forced to swim in. The Railroad needed to get some blood on their hands, and make the player question whether they were truly on the side of the angels. Rescuing a clearly murderous synth, perhaps, and be asked to protect it all the same because its flaws were the sins of its creators. Or killing some otherwise lovely people who happened to be anti-synth propagandists.

I don't think binary factions have to be boring, but I suppose that's your taste, which is fine, not what I want to discuss. Besides the covenant, they don't really have anyone to "compete" with to make them NOT seem like the good guy, so they aren't forced into making morally grey/bad guy decisions because it just wouldn't make sense for them in bethesda's world. There are countless times though where you straight up mow down raiders/synths/etc.. in the process of your missions or clearing places out, and glory hints at that being an average day for her as well, so obviously the railroad isn't against violence, they just weren't put in a situation until the very end to harm anyone to acquire their goals.

now I didn't feel like I was necessarily on the side of the angels at the end, I didn't agree with the "murder anything that moves" in the institute when you teleported everyone in, and I ESPECIALLY didn't agree with blowing up the institute/making the nuclear meteor hole in the ground at the end, we had taken the institute, why the HELL wouldn't you use that as your base of operations? or simply use it as a safe place for people? or continue "sciencing" down there but then spreading the love to the surface world to enjoy too? They were decades if not centuries ahead of the surface world on tons of things, sending us back to the stone age again I felt like was a stupid as fuck move.

now, they certainly weren't xenophobic at least, which is more than I can say for BoS and the institute, which is the reason why morally they tipped in my favor when I made a decision between the factions.

THE MINUTEMEN - TERRIBLE

I hesitate to even call them a faction. Bunch of bland do-goodniks.

they felt terribly underdeveloped, especially considering they are the first major thing you encounter and with random minutemen coming out of the woodwork, I feel like their was something more there that either got cut out or something. For now though, I'll agree that they aren't really much of a faction.

[HEADING=2]NEW VEGAS[/HEADING]

not gonna touch on new vegas, it's been a long time since I played it but I more or less agreed on your analysis. (although I still think it had better writing than 3 or 4)

 

[Dansen]

THE MINUTEMEN

Yeah, the Minutemen are not fleshed out at all. There are only two unique NPCs that I have seen so far and I accidentally got pretty far into their quest line by clearing out the castle. Some ideas that could have made them more engaging. Have their main quest-line involve taking the commonwealth back from the Gunners. They have a crazy amount of forts all across the commonwealth, maybe by clearing them out you could claim the forts for the minutemen and doing so would lower the chances of attacks in the general area. Give them more unique NPCs, have them enter your settlements and trigger quests as the minutemen's sphere of influence grows. After the Gunners are defeated the conflicts of the other factions are starting to escalate and as leader of the Minutemen you get to decide to remove them from the Commonwealth or support them. The Minutemen really should have been the "Yes Man" of this game, they feel too far removed from the conflicts involving the institute.

THE GUNNERS

Another missed opportunity, not sure why Bethesda decided you couldn't join them. The Gunners are the direct foil to the Minutemen, mercenaries that keep order so long as it is convenient for them, the wasteland is a bit safer because of them but only as a consequence of their operations. They have a huge arsenal of prewar tech and are run with such efficiency that I wouldn't be surprised if the commonwealth only contained a fraction of their forces. tbh If they wanted to they could probably defeat the Brotherhood in its current state(w/o liberty prime). They are no doubt going to be the focal point of one of the DLCs since their leader isn't even in the Commonwealth. I also suspect that there was some cut content regarding them and the minutemen, since their leader of operations in the area, Clint, was a minuteman who betrayed his own comrades.

THE BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL

I like what the order stand for(mostly), but I loath Elder Maxson. He is a zealot that follows the Brotherhood's doctrine so strictly you would think he was a religious leader. He is too ridged, the wasteland is changing around him. If the Brotherhood doesn't evolve they are going to be destroyed. Haven't finished the game since I've spent most of my time wandering around, but I hope that there is a way to usurp him. Still like the bro hood tho, they are one of the cooler postwar societies.

THE RAILROAD

These guys are boring AF. Had no trouble making the choice to wipe them out. This is a faction without vision and one that I could see making more problems down the line than actually helping. Would be cool if the railroad was actually founded by members of the institute, might be the case as I can see sympathy towards the synth in a couple of members.

 

[WolfThomas]

Caesars legion is a faction where might makes right. You can be a terrible person, but because you're strong you can rise through their ranks and have a place of huge importance. They're never really meant to be a morally sound option,

I think the main problem Guppy has with the Legion is the fact they're stupid-evil. Their society is one which is cartoonishly evil with there being no logic for it becoming more then another small band of raiders. Even the Khans made more sense as a society which threatened the fringes of the NCR. Caesar's Legion on the other hand just doesn't have the type of social structure or the military mentality that a society required to survive in that setting needs.

I agree re: cartoonishly evil. But an evil fallout character is often cartoonishly evil.

However I disagree with some of the later points of Caesar's legion. They've got a cult of personality around Caesar and his legates, many of whom are well educated, Caesar being a former follower of the Apocalypse. Joshua Graham from the Mormons. They do use weapons and technology, Caesar's centurions are very well equipped. They have a mission to seizure artillery for them so they understand it's purpose. Only the basic recruits have spears, machetes.

We see how Caesar's leigon assimilated other tribes, they split them up, make them speak English, shave off their hair and burn away tattoos. Remove their identity and make them more fodder.

But at no point are they a real threat to the NCR as Guppy points out, only to the NCR's extreme fringe holdings in Vegas, who are woefully under-supported by their home government, who don't want a protracted war just to hold onto Hoover. Same for the BoS it's only one already weakened chapter who might be threatened.

So I don't mind them so much and they're fun to shoot with Boone.

 

[Zen Bard]

Haven't played Fallout 4 yet, but I did recently complete my third run through of New Vegas. And I totally agree with you assessment of the two main factions.

The first two times I went Independent and Mr. House, respectively. So I decided to try one of the other two groups this time around. I had every intention of going with the Legion (just to do something different) but switched sides halfway through because they're...such...dicks!

Nothing about them made sense. The real Roman Empire brought stability, technology and a chance at a better life to the conquered territories. These guys don't even do that. Their arrogance was unfounded, their firepower was laughable and only Legate Lanaius was a credible threat.

In the end, there was simply no gameplay advantage to joining the Legion. Whereas with the NCR, you could ride the monorail from Camp McCarran, get Boone as a companion and get access to some sweet gear.

 

[Zontar]

However I disagree with some of the later points of Caesar's legion. They've got a cult of personality around Caesar and his legates, many of whom are well educated, Caesar being a former follower of the Apocalypse. Joshua Graham from the Mormons. They do use weapons and technology, Caesar's centurions are very well equipped. They have a mission to seizure artillery for them so they understand it's purpose. Only the basic recruits have spears, machetes.

We see how Caesar's leigon assimilated other tribes, they split them up, make them speak English, shave off their hair and burn away tattoos. Remove their identity and make them more fodder.

But at no point are they a real threat to the NCR as Guppy points out, only to the NCR's extreme fringe holdings in Vegas, who are woefully under-supported by their home government, who don't want a protracted war just to hold onto Hoover. Same for the BoS it's only one already weakened chapter who might be threatened.

So I don't mind them so much and they're fun to shoot with Boone.

Problem with that is that the basic recruits are the bulk of their forces. Any decently defended settlement would be mowing them down in far too great of numbers to make their assimilation of survivors worth it. They'd certainly be nothing like the threat to New Vegas or the NCR's fringes as they where portrayed in the game.

The idea they could win the battle of the dam is laughable, which is probably why the NCR canonically won that fight.

The Legion may have a few educated leaders, but without Caeser, there's no way for it to hold itself together, and even with him they, like the romans, need to expand to survive since their society is one where they're loosing people much faster then they're gaining them when one factors assimilation of tribes out of the equation. With the fact that to both its West and North are dominated by civilized armed societies that would steamroll them in an open fight (NCR, New Vegas, Vault City, Brotherhood chapters, Enclave remnants) the only place they could realistically expand is East and South, so unless the Luddites from Fallout Lore are going to be canonized there's nothing to expand into other then the dustbowl radiation storms and endless desert.

Plus, with Caeser's obsession with the dam for its potential for his empire, he'd probably continue to waste lives by throwing bodies at the defended position until he would bite the bullet himself eventually, and if he died then the Legion would fall appart anyway.

Really with how the games progress (each one a few years after the last one) there's really no way any new instalment will have them refereed to in the present tense without the requirement of an asspull on the part of the writers.

 

[Zontar]

Nothing about them made sense. The real Roman Empire brought stability, technology and a chance at a better life to the conquered territories. These guys don't even do that. Their arrogance was unfounded, their firepower was laughable and only Legate Lanaius was a credible threat.

Fallout 4 points towards an NCR victory at the battle of Hoover Dam, which, let's be frank, makes the most sense given they're an actual nation and have actual stability.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

While I find the Legion to be irredeemable as human beings, I kind of like that they are flatout bad guys. Nobody questions the psychotic Raider gangs like the Jackals or the Vipers, what's an army of kamikaze football hooligans shouting broken latin to do in the wasteland?

At least they aren't as bugfuck nuts as the Fiends. Those guys were just insane. Except for Motor Runner, he was cool, if baked out of his mind.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

While I find the Legion to be irredeemable as human beings, I kind of like that they are flatout bad guys. Nobody questions the psychotic Raider gangs like the Jackals or the Vipers, what's an army of kamikaze football hooligans shouting broken latin to do in the wasteland?

At least they aren't as bugfuck nuts as the Fiends. Those guys were just insane. Except for Motor Runner, he was cool, if baked out of his mind.

 

[IceForce]

The Minutemen really should have been the "Yes Man" of this game, they feel too far removed from the conflicts involving the institute.

They kinda are, insofar as it's impossible to fail the Minutemen questline, effectively making them the default 'fall back' faction in case you screw up all the others. (The same as if you killed House, killed Caesar, and pissed off the NCR in FONV, you could still complete the game by taking the Yes Man path.)

In FO4 you can fail the BoS questline by attacking Maxson, you can get kicked out of the Institute and fail their questline by attacking Father (which, somewhat comically, also fails the Railroad questline too, because part of the Railroad questline involves you working with Father for a bit while the Railroad organizes things off-screen). But as far as I can tell, you can't ever piss off the Minutemen to the point where you can no longer do quests for them.

In fact, when you're asked to help out a settlement by killing raiders or super mutants or whatever (thereby giving you another settlement at the end of it), you don't even have to do that at all. You can simply kill the settlers in the settlement (as long as they're un-named generic settlers), and the game will give you instant access to their workshop. You then report back to Garvey who just says "That's a shame" or something like that, and the quest counts as complete.

 

[WolfThomas]

I like the minutemen, but I'll agree they're pretty bland. I do like the idea of people trying to help out and bring order like the NCR, because face it we can't all be born into the Brotherhood of Steel.

The most disappointing thing though is how little of them there is. You get Preston Garvey, Ronald Shaw and like a corpse of the General (Mcgann?) to interact with. I really like the clash of technology and colonial fashion. I wish the minutemen could be a bigger more organised faction that is actually building a new society, with a retrofuturist vibe, men marching in immaculate continental army style uniform with tricorn hats but shouldering laser muskets. Colonial red brick houses and fortifications with robot sentry guns and generators.

It'd be freakin' sweet is all I'm saying.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I think the main problem Guppy has with the Legion is the fact they're stupid-evil. Their society is one which is cartoonishly evil with there being no logic for it becoming more then another small band of raiders. Even the Khans made more sense as a society which threatened the fringes of the NCR. Caesar's Legion on the other hand just doesn't have the type of social structure or the military mentality that a society required to survive in that setting needs.

I always thought that was "the point" of Ceasar's Legion. You have a charismatic leader who has pretensions of emulating a historical superpower and establishing a lasting society but apart from superficial trappings, he is essentially just another raider or tribal leader, albeit a very successful one. The backstory of the Legion is nothing but Caesar defeating one tribe or raider group after the other and giving them the option to work for him or get slaughtered to a man. In that way he expanded his forces with the constant promise of more glory, more loot and more combat. The game makes it pretty obvious that the Legion holds together as long as all the scumbags that makes up its' ranks thinks that Caesar will bring them even more stuff they want, but that there is no second in command that can take Caesar's place. Eventually the whole Legion will either dissolve or get destroyed by infighting.

As such I think the Legion is actually a good example of Obsidian's nuanced writing. It is "the evil option" and the game has no quarrel with telling you that the evil option is unfeasible in the long run, if you just look around the game for the information. Just like the NCR's problems seem minute compared to the Legion's, that's sort of the point of the NCR, that even for all its faults a modern democracy is far preferable to migration era-style bands of roving raiders (the Legion) or "benevolent" dictators (House).

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

I disagree with your point on The Legion. The Legion are bastards and that's fine. Even if they were assholes I still understood how they operated and why they did the things that they did.

The Legion may be black but you still have NCR, House and Independence who are all grey and it's still a pretty difficult decision between those three.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I find myself agreeing for the most part with Guppy, though I'd rank The Railroad as terrible. I joined the BoS mostly because they made it clear, right from the beginning, that they were in the Commonwealth to kill everyone, and I was so fed up with the Institute and the Railroad that I wanted to clear the whole freaking board. I practically cheered when I got the mission to smear the Railroad.

I would like to say that I actually like the idea of the Minutemen. I think the real problem with them is that by the time your unfrozen, everything interesting that happens to them is already over. I would pay a pretty penny to play through their story, through the good times, and through their decline to one man.

 

[Abomination]

I've always been a big House supporter in New Vegas. I found his ideals and essential immortality and promise of stability to be exactly what the Wasteland needed. The idea that Vegas could be the calm of the storm, a place secure, prosperous, and expanding at a moderate and calculating rate is very appealing.

While Caesar would bring stability it would only last his lifetime.

The NCR presently does bring stability but incredible inefficiencies, corruption and half-measures to problems that require full-measure responses.

The Brotherhood of the West has no future. Insular, xenophobic, they simply don't have the genetic diversity to survive much longer.

As for Fallout 4, it's Bethesda, they'll hint at something but never quite deliver. You can't actually be a real "evil" person in 4. You're always just helping folks in a more sarcastic way. The inability to join the Gunners or Triggermen, and the lack of diversity between raiders (they're just called "raiders" apart from 2 groups, I think) is just depressing. There were The Great Khans and the Fiends with whom you could actually interact in New Vegas. Even a few minor ones like the Jackals and Powder Gangers.

The Minutemen have far more promise if they had more fleshed out characters and perhaps the options for political decisions. Do you accept ghouls? Synths? Ex-raiders? What sort of legal system or legislative system do you have established? Are you a dictator, president, monarch? How about trade and industry? Do you invest in robots and technology, causing the Institute to want to cut you down. Equipping your troops in Power Armour could upset the Brotherhood. Siding with the Railroad more actively could also cause the Brotherhood and Institute to be a lot more hostile towards you. But trading with either would upset the other 2 factions.

You get all these companions who you can have sexual relations with ALL AT THE SAME TIME and that just gives you a damn XP bonus. Why can't you make them mayors or sheriffs of your settlements when you're not around? Making Valentine the mayor of one of your settlements could REALLY piss off the Brotherhood, while making Codsworth one would make The Railroad think you're a stand up fella.

Essentially I wanted to see Divinity: Dragon Commander mechanics in my Fallout.