REAL SOVIET DAMAGE (and how to achieve it)

DarklordKyo

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I tend to play grappler characters in fighting games mostly nowadays. I don't have the dexterity for rushdown characters, I'm not smart enough to master zoning or keep away characters, I'm too intrigued by laying a good offense to play turtles, and I can't play All Arounds due to not having the natural skill of someone who'd be able to take top prize at EVO on a yearly basis. Even so, I tend to still suck at playing grapplers. Does anyone have any tips on not being terrible? (other than the obvious "get in close," I'm looking for advice, not assholes).

TL;DR I suck at grappler characters in fighting games, I suck the least at grappler characters in fighting games, any tips on gaining some degree of competence outside of the obvious things like getting in close?
 

Razentsu

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Grapplers may be easy to pick up, but I actually think the grappler is the most difficult archetype to master in fighting games. I say this because, in order to be effective, grapplers require you to understand some of the more advanced fighting game concepts: "footsies [http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702]" (the advanced neutral game), "yomi [http://www.sirlin.net/articles/yomi-layer-3-knowing-the-mind-of-the-opponent.html]" (mind games).

Honestly, I do not think I will be able to explain these concepts without mucking things up. But if you're up for it, I've linked some material covering these concepts. They're long reads, and won't instantly improve your gameplay, but they should help you understand the psychology behind fighting games a little better. Really, the only way to improve on these fundamentals is through experience.

I think I may have overcomplicated things for the time being. Know that you do not need to be psychic or have the footsies of Alex Valle to play a decent grappler. I'm just saying grapplers in particular make use of these skills. You have to be able to condition the opponent into playing the way you want. Make them comfortable in their strategy then use that false sense of security as an opening. Once you seize that opening, and you are able to maintain momentum, you likely will have won the match.

The most basic example for conditioning is, when faced with a fireball character like Ryu, to block and take chip damage from fireballs so your opponent feels comfortable enough to keep throwing them. Then, on the nth predictable fireball, you can turn his whole "chip you to death" strategy against him, and wreck his face by jumping in once. Of course, this jump in will cause your opponent to rethink his strategy, so you have to be prepared to re-adapt to and re-condition your opponent.

When you're next to your opponent as a grappler, you'll generally want to condition your opponent to block so that you can "more safely" grab them. As you know, going for a command grab is a big risk. If they evade it, they can punish you quite harshly. You can condition your opponent to block by pressuring with safe moves and punishing those backdashes/jumps. Eventually, they'll be wary of jumping/backdashing, and you'll have a safe chance to throw. It's hard work for one command throw, but once you land one, you are rewarded with good damage and a hard knockdown. Often times, the momentum you get from that throw is enough to pave the way to victory.

You really have to pay attention to your opponent as a grappler. In the mid to far ranges, it is often your opponent who will dictate the pace of the match. Where it feels like you're more "playing your character" with other archetypes, you have to more "play your opponent" as a grappler.
 

NeutralDrow

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To be perfectly honest, I think "get in close" is the only thing that can possibly be given as general advice. Anything else would have to rely on what game mechanics you're working with. Would you be taking advantage of Arcana Heart's homing dash to get Kira close enough to grab someone (use Water arcana, or Time if you're super tricky)? Would you be taking advantage of how, like Communism, Tager's weak Buster grab is INVINCIBLE (...for a while)? Bait your opponent into jumping and out-prioritize everything with Heavenly Potemkin Buster?

Your general goal in grappling is just to avoid being outzoned long enough to land the four or five hits it takes to win.
 

Codeman90

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I love me some fighting game grapplers playing T-Hawk in SFIV and Tager in Blazblue, but they can be quite difficult to play. A lot of it comes down to match ups, and you MUST know what every character can do and what you can and cannot punish. May seem like basic stuff, but its difficult with grapplers. They tend to be slower and many of their moves are beaten by most of the opposing cast. It's something that just comes with a lot of experience. Once you know your opening its all about capitalizing. You won't get many opportunities to get solid hits in as a grappler against a good opponent, so when you do you have got to make it count with HUGE damage.

Not an easy archetype against good opponents, but I find it incredibly satisfying to just DESTROY an opponent's health bar with that one hit that finally connects leading to one huge combo.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

RIP Eleuthera, I will miss you
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Wait... there's strategy to these kind of games!? I thought (with the exception of Smash Bros and gamea like that) that it was all just' mash buttons until win' as a tactic!? :/ Who knew..

Surely the best thing though is just memorise those damn combos and work out which ones flow better together as a chain?
 

SwimmingRock

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Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Wait... there's strategy to these kind of games!? I thought (with the exception of Smash Bros and gamea like that) that it was all just' mash buttons until win' as a tactic!? :/ Who knew..

Surely the best thing though is just memorise those damn combos and work out which ones flow better together as a chain?
I would personally agree, but OP mentioned he's no good at that. Where he says he doesn't have the dexterity for rushdown characters, that means he can't manage the combos from a player perspective. He may have them memorized, but can't (consistently) execute them.

OT: As somebody who plays almost exclusively rushdown, I can only give you advice from the other side of the equation. When I'm beating down on a grappler, the thing that pisses me off most is when they manage a parry/counter mid-combo and use that to do massive damage to me.

Try improving your parry (or whatever that mechanic is called in whatever game you're playing) skills and use that to interrupt attacks directly into grapple moves. It'll require a lot of concentration and timing, but you'll make any rushdown player want to tear their hair out, because we don't have a lot of options besides getting close.
 

Razentsu

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SwimmingRock said:
OT: As somebody who plays almost exclusively rushdown, I can only give you advice from the other side of the equation. When I'm beating down on a grappler, the thing that pisses me off most is when they manage a parry/counter mid-combo and use that to do massive damage to me.
Sounds like either your blockstrings aren't tight, they know you're going for frametraps, or you're just dropping your combo. If you know they're mashing the command grab during your blockstrings/frametraps or combos, try jumping mid frametrap/blockstring/combo. They'll whiff and you can land a damaging jump-in combo. Plus, you win some "respect" from your opponent -- they'll have to think twice before using that tactic.

There's an art to offensive play that goes way deeper than simple button pressing. Eventually canned pressure strings/tactics just won't cut it. You have to read your opponent's defensive tendencies, and you have to get creative. If they're aggressive, meaning they're willing use a risky, invincible move, jump out, or backdash to end your pressure, you have to give your opponent respect and start baiting it. If they're passive, meaning they're content to block, you can go for pressure resets like IADs (instant air dashes), jump-ins, walk ups, dash-ins and more. Eventually they'll get impatient and will do something instead of blocking, and that's when they get hurt. Or alternatively you will have already thrown them. To put it simply, you must try to understand your opponent's defensive behaviour.

But yeah, SwimmingRock's idea is: mash a command throw or DP during your opponent's offense. If you succeed in ending the pressure with this, you are rewarded with decent damage on your opponent, and perhaps you'll end up having an advantageous position from which you can start your own pressure. Plus, you've told your opponent to respect that defensive option. It's a risky, but viable tactic. Even top players will use this when they are confident that their opponent's execution is off. And yeah, if you know something is coming, and you are given the option to parry, then hell yeah, use that. Parrying is often a better option than blocking.

Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Wait... there's strategy to these kind of games!? I thought (with the exception of Smash Bros and gamea like that) that it was all just' mash buttons until win' as a tactic!? :/ Who knew..

Surely the best thing though is just memorise those damn combos and work out which ones flow better together as a chain?
There is a lot more than meets the eye in fighting games. Execution is important, but that alone will not win you any matches. What's more important is strategy, adaptation, and valuation/decision making. After all, how are you supposed to land combos if you can't hit your opponent? Combos are simply the reward you get from winning a scenario.

Sorry if my rambling is turning into jargon. I just love talking fighting games. Anyway, which game(s) do you play and who is/are the character(s) are you using? Judging from the title it sounds like you play BB and main Tager. Is there anything in particular you are having trouble with?

I know I'm trying to debunk the "execution is everything" misconception, but I have to post this since Smash was mentioned. Super Smash Bros. Melee, funnily enough, is probably the most execution heavy fighter out there.
 

krazykidd

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Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Wait... there's strategy to these kind of games!? I thought (with the exception of Smash Bros and gamea like that) that it was all just' mash buttons until win' as a tactic!? :/ Who knew..

Surely the best thing though is just memorise those damn combos and work out which ones flow better together as a chain?
Really? People are still at this stage? ( unless you're being sarcastic )

Contrary to popular believe , combos are the last thing to worry about . The absolute last . Long combos do not win a game . Why? Because unless you can actually , get in and hit your opponent, they are useless .

OT: OP may i ask which fighting game you are playing ? Because ( again contrary to popular belief ) every fighting game is different. In my opinion , grapplers are the hardest to master . Why? Because you got to know what you are doing. Grapplers are about patience . I'll refrain from adding more unless i know which game we are talking about .

Edit:

I usually play rush down , so i'll give you my experience against grapplers in general . As a rushdown character , i am always afraid to get anywhere near my opponent . Because i know that's where they want me to be . And that's where they will do the most damage . Somethings i noticed was , that for the first few seconds in the match , my opponent will play footsies . Not coming in too much , but tries to read my play style . The important thing for him is to slowly close the gap . This will either push me back into the corner , or make me nervous and jump in . If i jump in , and he manages to block my offense , he's in the clear to punish me , if he pushed me into the corner , i'm completly at his mercy .

A good grappler is not afraid to take a few hit's to get his opponent where he wants him . The extra health and damage helps with that . For grapplers, defense and patience is your best bet . Once you get your momentum going , you should be unstoppable . Know your moves and invincibility frames on your comand grabs . Use anti-air grabs if your opponents like to jump . Use command grabs if your opponent likes to mash buttons ( usually command grabs have invincibility frames , so you won't get hit ). Be patient if you opponent is trying to zone you . The worst thing you could do is get greedy .
 

Mister K

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Well, I am not a pro, but from my experience with Tager in Blazblue I learned two lessons:
1. As a person who plays as grappler, you simply MUST know as much as possible about every other character. Know their tricks and learn to avoid them.
2. Be really patient and think a lot. Hot-headed grapplers lose really fast.
 

DarklordKyo

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Razentsu said:
SwimmingRock said:
OT: As somebody who plays almost exclusively rushdown, I can only give you advice from the other side of the equation. When I'm beating down on a grappler, the thing that pisses me off most is when they manage a parry/counter mid-combo and use that to do massive damage to me.
Sounds like either your blockstrings aren't tight, they know you're going for frametraps, or you're just dropping your combo. If you know they're mashing the command grab during your blockstrings/frametraps or combos, try jumping mid frametrap/blockstring/combo. They'll whiff and you can land a damaging jump-in combo. Plus, you win some "respect" from your opponent -- they'll have to think twice before using that tactic.

There's an art to offensive play that goes way deeper than simple button pressing. Eventually canned pressure strings/tactics just won't cut it. You have to read your opponent's defensive tendencies, and you have to get creative. If they're aggressive, meaning they're willing use a risky, invincible move, jump out, or backdash to end your pressure, you have to give your opponent respect and start baiting it. If they're passive, meaning they're content to block, you can go for pressure resets like IADs (instant air dashes), jump-ins, walk ups, dash-ins and more. Eventually they'll get impatient and will do something instead of blocking, and that's when they get hurt. Or alternatively you will have already thrown them. To put it simply, you must try to understand your opponent's defensive behaviour.

But yeah, SwimmingRock's idea is: mash a command throw or DP during your opponent's offense. If you succeed in ending the pressure with this, you are rewarded with decent damage on your opponent, and perhaps you'll end up having an advantageous position from which you can start your own pressure. Plus, you've told your opponent to respect that defensive option. It's a risky, but viable tactic. Even top players will use this when they are confident that their opponent's execution is off. And yeah, if you know something is coming, and you are given the option to parry, then hell yeah, use that. Parrying is often a better option than blocking.

Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Wait... there's strategy to these kind of games!? I thought (with the exception of Smash Bros and gamea like that) that it was all just' mash buttons until win' as a tactic!? :/ Who knew..

Surely the best thing though is just memorise those damn combos and work out which ones flow better together as a chain?
There is a lot more than meets the eye in fighting games. Execution is important, but that alone will not win you any matches. What's more important is strategy, adaptation, and valuation/decision making. After all, how are you supposed to land combos if you can't hit your opponent? Combos are simply the reward you get from winning a scenario.

Sorry if my rambling is turning into jargon. I just love talking fighting games. Anyway, which game(s) do you play and who is/are the character(s) are you using? Judging from the title it sounds like you play BB and main Tager. Is there anything in particular you are having trouble with?

I know I'm trying to debunk the "execution is everything" misconception, but I have to post this since Smash was mentioned. Super Smash Bros. Melee, funnily enough, is probably the most execution heavy fighter out there.
As far as grapplers go, I play Kanji in Persona 4: Arena, Zangief in most Street Fighter titles (still deciding between Alex and Hugo in SF3), and I'm thinking of trying out Grundy if I get Injustice [I don't exclusively play grapplers though, I main Noel in Blazblue, Faust in Guilty Gear, and Ms. Fortune in Skullgirls, mostly because I like their playstyles (plus, as Mike Z demonstrated, you're gonna need to learn combo strings even as Tager if you want to be really good, so why not an actual rushdown in that case?)].
 

DarklordKyo

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krazykidd said:
H
Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Wait... there's strategy to these kind of games!? I thought (with the exception of Smash Bros and gamea like that) that it was all just' mash buttons until win' as a tactic!? :/ Who knew..

Surely the best thing though is just memorise those damn combos and work out which ones flow better together as a chain?
Really? People are still at this stage? ( unless you're being sarcastic )

Contrary to popular believe , combos are the last thing to worry about . The absolute last . Long combos do not win a game . Why? Because unless you can actually , get in and hit your opponent, they are useless .

OT: OP may i ask which fighting game you are playing ? Because ( again contrary to popular belief ) every fighting game is different. In my opinion , grapplers are the hardest to master . Why? Because you got to know what you are doing. Grapplers are about patience . I'll refrain from adding more unless i know which game we are talking about .

Edit:

I usually play rush down , so i'll give you my experience against grapplers in general . As a rushdown character , i am always afraid to get anywhere near my opponent . Because i know that's where they want me to be . And that's where they will do the most damage . Somethings i noticed was , that for the first few seconds in the match , my opponent will play footsies . Not coming in too much , but tries to read my play style . The important thing for him is to slowly close the gap . This will either push me back into the corner , or make me nervous and jump in . If i jump in , and he manages to block my offense , he's in the clear to punish me , if he pushed me into the corner , i'm completly at his mercy .

A good grappler is not afraid to take a few hit's to get his opponent where he wants him . The extra health and damage helps with that . For grapplers, defense and patience is your best bet . Once you get your momentum going , you should be unstoppable . Know your moves and invincibility frames on your comand grabs . Use anti-air grabs if your opponents like to jump . Use command grabs if your opponent likes to mash buttons ( usually command grabs have invincibility frames , so you won't get hit ). Be patient if you opponent is trying to zone you . The worst thing you could do is get greedy .
I posted a reply to Razentsu with a few examples.
 

SuperSuperSuperGuy

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I mainly play Lambda-11 in BlazBlue. Judging from the title, I'm guessing you play Tager. Since I don't really use Tager, all I can do is give you some advice on how one might be able to deal with the general way that I like to fight him.

Now, Tager's got a big disadvantage here; if I keep him at a distance, he can't magnetise me, and thus won't be able to draw me in closer. This essentially wrecks him; the distance that a Spike Chaser will send Tager, even on block, is about the same as the distance he can travel in the time it takes to launch a short-ranged one, and if you're far away enough to require me to use a long-range SC, you basically can't close the distance fast enough to get me during start-up, anyway. Jumping is really risky, too; Tager can't air dash, so it's really easy for me to send a sword in his direction. If either this SC or standard sword connect, I can easily, easily follow up with a combo that will send you across the screen, far away enough so that you won't be able to touch me. Tager's also got a huge hitbox, so it's ridiculously easy to make attacks connect.

So, getting in close is an issue, so here's my first piece of advice: know your range. Tager has his Spark Bolt projectile which really messes with my strategy. However, it has to charge before it can be used, which is an issue. What about when it's in the process of charging? In situations like these, you have to know how far your attacks reach, and then capitalise on when your opponent just barely gets into your range. You aren't going to have many chances to close the distance, so you should let your opponent do it for you. Which leads into my next piece of advice...

Capitalise on your opponent's mistakes. If your opponent screws up, he gives you a chance to close the distance and pummel you. Take advantage of that, and take potshots at your opponent when he gives you the opportunity to. Now, this may seem obvious, and while it's important for all players to do this, it's especially important for grapplers because they have issues getting at an aggressive opponent otherwise. Next, I would have to recommend being defensive. Grapplers can take a lot of punishment, and it's best to take advantage of it. Guarding a lot will help you stave off attacks until your opponent messes up and lets you hit them. You should also definitely learn to read your opponent. Learn their patterns and tendencies, and then find chinks in their offence. Another really important thing to learn is which moves have super-armour. Certain moves make you immune to knockback, and using them to crash through your opponent's offence really helps in boosting your own damage output.

I know you might have trouble with it, but I think you should also try Challenge Mode with Tager. You might not be able to do many of them, but it might help you learn which moves go well with each other. Challenge Mode can only teach you so much, anyway; I made up many of my main Lambda combos on my own, even if I did base them off of the basic ones that were taught to me in Challenge Mode. Lastly, and I know this is really frustrating to hear, especially when looking for advice, but practice is extraordinarily helpful, even if it doesn't seem to be. Keep at it and be persistent. You'll get better and better. But all that is for naught if you keep doing the same thing over and over again; you have to keep learning and trying new things. Experiment a bit; it'll only benefit you.
 

Razentsu

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DarklordKyo said:
Razentsu said:
SwimmingRock said:
OT: As somebody who plays almost exclusively rushdown, I can only give you advice from the other side of the equation. When I'm beating down on a grappler, the thing that pisses me off most is when they manage a parry/counter mid-combo and use that to do massive damage to me.
Sounds like either your blockstrings aren't tight, they know you're going for frametraps, or you're just dropping your combo. If you know they're mashing the command grab during your blockstrings/frametraps or combos, try jumping mid frametrap/blockstring/combo. They'll whiff and you can land a damaging jump-in combo. Plus, you win some "respect" from your opponent -- they'll have to think twice before using that tactic.

There's an art to offensive play that goes way deeper than simple button pressing. Eventually canned pressure strings/tactics just won't cut it. You have to read your opponent's defensive tendencies, and you have to get creative. If they're aggressive, meaning they're willing use a risky, invincible move, jump out, or backdash to end your pressure, you have to give your opponent respect and start baiting it. If they're passive, meaning they're content to block, you can go for pressure resets like IADs (instant air dashes), jump-ins, walk ups, dash-ins and more. Eventually they'll get impatient and will do something instead of blocking, and that's when they get hurt. Or alternatively you will have already thrown them. To put it simply, you must try to understand your opponent's defensive behaviour.

But yeah, SwimmingRock's idea is: mash a command throw or DP during your opponent's offense. If you succeed in ending the pressure with this, you are rewarded with decent damage on your opponent, and perhaps you'll end up having an advantageous position from which you can start your own pressure. Plus, you've told your opponent to respect that defensive option. It's a risky, but viable tactic. Even top players will use this when they are confident that their opponent's execution is off. And yeah, if you know something is coming, and you are given the option to parry, then hell yeah, use that. Parrying is often a better option than blocking.

Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Wait... there's strategy to these kind of games!? I thought (with the exception of Smash Bros and gamea like that) that it was all just' mash buttons until win' as a tactic!? :/ Who knew..

Surely the best thing though is just memorise those damn combos and work out which ones flow better together as a chain?
There is a lot more than meets the eye in fighting games. Execution is important, but that alone will not win you any matches. What's more important is strategy, adaptation, and valuation/decision making. After all, how are you supposed to land combos if you can't hit your opponent? Combos are simply the reward you get from winning a scenario.

Sorry if my rambling is turning into jargon. I just love talking fighting games. Anyway, which game(s) do you play and who is/are the character(s) are you using? Judging from the title it sounds like you play BB and main Tager. Is there anything in particular you are having trouble with?

I know I'm trying to debunk the "execution is everything" misconception, but I have to post this since Smash was mentioned. Super Smash Bros. Melee, funnily enough, is probably the most execution heavy fighter out there.

As far as grapplers go, I play Kanji in Persona 4: Arena, Zangief in most Street Fighter titles (still deciding between Alex and Hugo in SF3), and I'm thinking of trying out Grundy if I get Injustice [I don't exclusively play grapplers though, I main Noel in Blazblue, Faust in Guilty Gear, and Ms. Fortune in Skullgirls, mostly because I like their playstyles (plus, as Mike Z demonstrated, you're gonna need to learn combo strings even as Tager if you want to be really good, so why not an actual rushdown in that case?)].
Having versatility is always to your benefit, so it's great that you do play other types of characters, and other games even. Like all other fighting game fundamentals, your ability to pressure will carry over to any character and any game you play. It may be a trickier skill to transition from game to game or character to character as you will have different tools for each character or game, but the basic ideas behind pressuring are always the same. You'll always be analysing your opponent, looking for ways to break his/her defence, and you will always have the basic, tried and true tactics against defence.

Basically, if you know how and when to bait a DP in one game, you'll have a good idea of how and when to bait a DP in all games. You can replace "bait a DP" with pretty much anything: "go for a throw," "go for a pressure reset," "go for frametraps," and more.

I love how you can get better at a certain character/game by playing a different character/game entirely! If one character helps you learn how to utilize frametraps/staggers, which could very well be Noel in your case, you can take what you've learned from playing her an apply these ideas to other characters. Your Zangief will be more effective because you now have a better understanding of frametraps/stagger pressure and when to use them.

I remember taking a long break from SFIV to play Melty Blood, Guilty Gear and P4A, and finding that my pressure game and defence improved significantly when I came back to it. Heck, I switched from maining Guile to Sakura because I felt so much more confident in my pressure game. I think this is a major part of what makes players like Justin Wong and Chris G so strong. They have incredible fundamentals because they play so many different games.

But yeah, this is how you're kind of indirectly improve your grappler gameplay. I wrote a heck of a lot more than I think I needed to, but the point is, you're well on your way in improving your fundamentals by playing such a variety of games/characters and you should keep striving to be versatile. You're really pimping out your 'Gief/Kanji/whomever by learning new styles.

There's some very good advice posted by the others in this thread. It's true that as a grappler, you have to know your options very well so that you can most effectively make your way towards your opponent; you have to make the most of each opening, as getting back in is so much more difficult than staying in; and it is a good idea to play patiently, actively looking for openings, and taking smart risks.

Here's an example of strong grappler play (match starts at 2:55):
You can see AquaSilk playing patiently in the far to mid range and taking some very good risks in the mid range. Aquasilk knows that even if he reads wrong and the risk doesn't pay off sometimes, he is at least chipping away at his opponent psychologically. Aquasilk did a great job of conditioning his opponent, Dieminion, in this match. He needed to condition his opponent as well as he did to win, as this is a very difficult match up for Zangief. As you probably know, Guile gives Zangief a very hard time in the neutral game. Plus, Dieminion is an incredibly strong player; he's easily one of the best in the US.

For a good portion of the match, Aquasilk is conditioning Dieminion by jumping in. I mean, pretty much first things he does is jump in, funnily enough. By jumping in, he is telling Dieminion to focus on his anti-airs, causing Dieminion to throw less sonic booms, making it easier for Aquasilk to win in the ground game.

If he gets hit, he takes a little bit of damage, but he tells Dieminion he's willing to jump. Normally, getting anti-aired would dissuade the jumper, but Aquasilk has a pretty resilient mind, and he knows these jumps are worth the risks. As a grappler, you have to take smart risks. Be careful, but do not be afraid. Aquasilk is taking a smart risk when he jumps in the mid-range because if he hits Dieminion, then Aquasilk deals damage, creates momentum and he reminds Dieminion to keep AA-ing.

When Aquasilk sees Dieminion is more focused on AAs, he knows he can walk forward more safely, and he begins to make more liberal use of his specials and normals. Eventually he's next to Dieminion and forces Dieminion to guess. Right or wrong, Aquasilk shows Dieminion he can get in without jumping; which is very scary as a Guile player. Whatever you do, there is the possibility of 'Gief getting in to lay the smackdown.

When Aquasilk is in, he goes about his offence with the secondary goal of conditioning his opponent to either jump or block. When he wants his opponent to jump, he pressures with frametraps that will catch jumps, and when he wants his opponent to jump, he goes for buffered SPDs and tick throws. He plays a strong and safe offense. There are some crazy reads here and there, but that just shows how confident Aquasilk is in his conditioning of Dieminion.

Conditioning your opponent makes it easier for you to get in. Of course not everyone will be comfortable at taking risks and making reads as Aquasilk, but every grappler needs to make some reads/guesses. It's just how grapplers play. Grapplers cannot control space as well as other archetypes, but they are especially strong in controlling the psychological game because of how damaging they are, and how much health they naturally have. Grapplers induce fear like no other archetype.

In the end, you have to be brave and you need to be intelligent with your risks. Conditioning your opponent is a way to make these risks safer.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

RIP Eleuthera, I will miss you
Nov 9, 2010
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krazykidd said:
Really? People are still at this stage? ( unless you're being sarcastic )

Contrary to popular believe , combos are the last thing to worry about . The absolute last . Long combos do not win a game . Why? Because unless you can actually , get in and hit your opponent, they are useless .
Sorry dude, I was being sarcastic! Although the second sentence wasn't... I honest'y thought that it was all about the combos... mostly because I wondered what the point would be for the devs to put all that effort into coding and animating them when they are kinda pointless. Although I imagine they are more for people like me, amateur, playing against a CPU opponent and using them to get a sence of achievemnt that is on top of winning a fight! :p
 

DarklordKyo

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SuperSuperSuperGuy said:
I mainly play Lambda-11 in BlazBlue. Judging from the title, I'm guessing you play Tager. Since I don't really use Tager, all I can do is give you some advice on how one might be able to deal with the general way that I like to fight him.

Now, Tager's got a big disadvantage here; if I keep him at a distance, he can't magnetise me, and thus won't be able to draw me in closer. This essentially wrecks him; the distance that a Spike Chaser will send Tager, even on block, is about the same as the distance he can travel in the time it takes to launch a short-ranged one, and if you're far away enough to require me to use a long-range SC, you basically can't close the distance fast enough to get me during start-up, anyway. Jumping is really risky, too; Tager can't air dash, so it's really easy for me to send a sword in his direction. If either this SC or standard sword connect, I can easily, easily follow up with a combo that will send you across the screen, far away enough so that you won't be able to touch me. Tager's also got a huge hitbox, so it's ridiculously easy to make attacks connect.

So, getting in close is an issue, so here's my first piece of advice: know your range. Tager has his Spark Bolt projectile which really messes with my strategy. However, it has to charge before it can be used, which is an issue. What about when it's in the process of charging? In situations like these, you have to know how far your attacks reach, and then capitalise on when your opponent just barely gets into your range. You aren't going to have many chances to close the distance, so you should let your opponent do it for you. Which leads into my next piece of advice...

Capitalise on your opponent's mistakes. If your opponent screws up, he gives you a chance to close the distance and pummel you. Take advantage of that, and take potshots at your opponent when he gives you the opportunity to. Now, this may seem obvious, and while it's important for all players to do this, it's especially important for grapplers because they have issues getting at an aggressive opponent otherwise. Next, I would have to recommend being defensive. Grapplers can take a lot of punishment, and it's best to take advantage of it. Guarding a lot will help you stave off attacks until your opponent messes up and lets you hit them. You should also definitely learn to read your opponent. Learn their patterns and tendencies, and then find chinks in their offence. Another really important thing to learn is which moves have super-armour. Certain moves make you immune to knockback, and using them to crash through your opponent's offence really helps in boosting your own damage output.

I know you might have trouble with it, but I think you should also try Challenge Mode with Tager. You might not be able to do many of them, but it might help you learn which moves go well with each other. Challenge Mode can only teach you so much, anyway; I made up many of my main Lambda combos on my own, even if I did base them off of the basic ones that were taught to me in Challenge Mode. Lastly, and I know this is really frustrating to hear, especially when looking for advice, but practice is extraordinarily helpful, even if it doesn't seem to be. Keep at it and be persistent. You'll get better and better. But all that is for naught if you keep doing the same thing over and over again; you have to keep learning and trying new things. Experiment a bit; it'll only benefit you.
I mentioned in a post that I don't only play grapplers (in fact, an affinity towards grapplers was a recent thing generally). I actually main Noel in Blazblue (and I won't be switching to Tager because of character loyalty, the fact that playing him at his best involves comboing anyways, and general stubborness).