Really deep and complicated question

[Custard_Angel]

im going with all the scientist answer which is "we just dont know"

I'm going with the realist scientist answer which is "we just don't know and will never know because there's no way to ever find out".

For serious. There is no way to conclusively prove the origin of the universe. You can create a model of the big bang and this and that and the other, but all of those models can never be "proven". Evidence can be found, papers can be published and arguments can be made, but at the end of the day its the blind leading the blind and it all boils down to what you choose to believe in.

Believe in God? Sure thing. You are correct.

Believe in chaos? Sure thing. You are correct.

Believe in Dawkins? I'm sorry. You will never be correct.

Hear that? That's the sound of 1,000 militant atheists typing "ur a moron".

 

[Velvo]

Ok, I thought of this really deep and complicated question (well in my opinion anyways). Now I'm absolutely certain I'll never get the right answer yet I continue to ask myself the question and anyone I ask usually freak out at the complexity or just refuses to acknolwedge the question as being serious.

At one point there had to be NOTHING in the universe at all because nothing had been created yet. There were no stars, planets of anything. There was no light because there was nothing to create it. There were no molecules or atoms or anything smaller. Now if there was nothing at all and we obviously have a universe now something must have been created. But if all there is is nothing, how do you make something?

Yeah, first your premise is flawed. There didn't have to be nothing. Since all of space and time converges to a single point in the past, there is no "before" the beginning.

In fact, you could say that the beginning is infinitely far back into the past due to relativity, despite the apparent scaling timescale we humans have constructed.

Also, you seem to be thinking that there was some"where" for anything to be. The big bang was not an explosion of matter into empty space. It was an explosion of space itself into apparent existence. Everything that has ever been, all the matter/energy that the universe currently holds, was squeezed down into a infinitesimal point, which was all the spacetime that there was.

So, energy was never created, but spacetime was... for some reason.

There is some evidence to suggest that perhaps the laws of physics are not totally immutable even within our own universe (the evidence mostly being "why not?"). Perhaps they change gradually due to even less understood mechanisms and we simply haven't been around long enough to experience it.

Perhaps the energy of the universe was always sitting there and the laws of physics were always changing gradually until all of a sudden, boom, something wildly different happened due to some small bit of physics changing. Who KNOWS?

Who the hell knows what's real and what's not anymore? We humans are at such a loss in the history of time and space, and we're so damn arrogant. We don't know anything about anything for absolute certain (epistemology!), and much less about what may or may not have happened outside our particular bubble of space and time.

Of course, that does not make the effort to understand it all any less valiant (at least to folks like us). It's the journey, not the destination. The destination is death. Fiery quick death, or cold slow death. Don't focus on the destination is my point. It's depressing and will only either speed the process or make it interminable.

EDIT: Oh, look at all of us. Postulating posers just looking for a little intellectual validation from people who know just as little as we do. Pretending to have answers to a question that's made to unmake its own answer. Does it make you feel complete to have a world-view? Does it give you confidence enough in the solidity of the ground on which you stand (or in this case, chair on which you sit) to live fearlessly? More power to you.

I just can't stand knowing that the truth of any matter will always elude us because the idea of truth is an evolved response to stimuli that is, though very useful, in no way perfect. Seeking truth is in no way a perfect means of seeking truth.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well I can see where your "created" ideas are going, so before you speak it, if we are really under the assumption there was a "nothing" point then there also was no god, so who "created" him...

It is an interesting question tho, everything comes from something, but what was the prime mover, where did it all come from.
I think the universe is going through cycles of collapsing (black holes join hands and suck everything up) and exploding (the all encompassing singularity reaching a critical point) , so the "big bang" we are trying to figure out is not the prime start, just the start of a new cycle.

 

[AlkalineGamer]

In thought this thread was going to be something like "Ketchup or brown sauce?" or something.

OT: your assuming that there was nothing. But for all we know, there wasn't.
The universe didn't nessacarily always have matter or mass, but it might have always existed, as it is existance itself.

As for wether true nothingness is possible, don't know.
There can't be nothing, there can only 'be' things, maybe there can not be things and that is nothing.

Nothing is the absence of everthing, even itself.

 

[Womplord]

Existence is totally unexplainable.