Record high amount of young men not having..ehm you-know-what.

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Huh, the numbers are higher than i would assume.

As for why that might be a problem: Well, the disparity between genders hints there might be something not quite kosher about it, although on itself doesn't have to be problematic. Now cesspits like r/incels existing however - one look at those shows why there's a problem.
I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Shlobby, dumb, asocial morons get laid all the time, why would that not be true of anyone?

Hey, that's true, but i feel like holding the Sexual Tyranosaurus that Rich Evans is as an example, is a bit unfair.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Huh, the numbers are higher than i would assume.

As for why that might be a problem: Well, the disparity between genders hints there might be something not quite kosher about it, although on itself doesn't have to be problematic. Now cesspits like r/incels existing however - one look at those shows why there's a problem.
I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Well with regards to them the problem is definitely not the lack of sex or needing to look attractive bit it's their entire mentality. Even if they failed to attract someone else they shouldn't end up like that there's something way more fundamentally wrong there if they can't accept things in a healthier manner

 

[Agema]

I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Now that's an interesting point.

Evidence suggests that mental illness, particularly anxiety and depression, is on the rise in Western societies. It's entirely plausible that's also going to decrease socialising and sexual activity. (Antidepressants also often cause reduced libido.)

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Now that's an interesting point.

Evidence suggests that mental illness, particularly anxiety and depression, is on the rise in Western societies. It's entirely plausible that's also going to decrease socialising and sexual activity. (Antidepressants also often cause reduced libido.)

So does medication to treat high blood pressure and with high blood pressure on the rise, far more people are taking it than before. It is possible side effects from numerous medications could be affecting this as well.
https://www.sfgate.com/health/article/High-blood-pressure-on-the-rise-Sharp-increase-2604273.php

https://www.healthline.com/health/high-blood-pressure-hypertension-linked-to-erectile-dysfunction

 

[Agema]

So does medication to treat high blood pressure and with high blood pressure on the rise, far more people are taking it than before. It is possible side effects from numerous medications could be affecting this as well.
https://www.sfgate.com/health/article/High-blood-pressure-on-the-rise-Sharp-increase-2604273.php

To be fair, I don't think hypertension is going to be a particularly large problem in the young, it's overwhelmingly 40s and up affected. Nor is it necessarily going to induce men to not want to pursue sex and relationships. Although given the most likely cause of hypertension in the young would I suspect be obesity, they might have image and self-esteem concerns.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

So does medication to treat high blood pressure and with high blood pressure on the rise, far more people are taking it than before. It is possible side effects from numerous medications could be affecting this as well.
https://www.sfgate.com/health/article/High-blood-pressure-on-the-rise-Sharp-increase-2604273.php

To be fair, I don't think hypertension is going to be a particularly large problem in the young, it's overwhelmingly 40s and up affected. Nor is it necessarily going to induce men to not want to pursue sex and relationships. Although given the most likely cause of hypertension in the young would I suspect be obesity, they might have image and self-esteem concerns.

Normally yes, but it has been increasing among children, teens and young adults:

High blood pressure currently affects about 30% of adults in the United States. Now doctors are seeing that high blood pressure is increasing in teens and kids.
High Blood Pressure is Increasing in Teens and Kids
On Monday, new guidelines were released to support doctors in finding and looking for signs of high blood pressure in their younger patients. The guidelines state that doctors are missing the signs about 75% of the time.

Dr. Joshua Samuels, a pediatrics professor and the McGovern Medical School at UT Health in Houston, Texas, said ?We have seen an increase in children?s blood pressure over the last decade or so. That?s probably related to the obesity epidemic that we?re seeing in children, but that doesn?t completely explain the increase in blood pressure that we?re seeing.?
Hypertension is not often associated with kids and teens. The newly released guidelines, however, found that about 3.5% of younger people have hypertension compared to the past 1-2%. High blood pressure is increasing in teens and kids and is now in the top 5 chronic diseases for these age groups.
The guidelines were developed by a committee of 20 people and were based on about 15,000 reviewed articles about the correct evaluations, diagnosis, and management of high blood pressure in teens and kids. Doctors are recommended to focus more on doing routine checks and tests so they can catch hypertension signs before it becomes a bigger problem.

https://l-arginine.com/high-blood-pressure-increasing-teens-kids/

In addition, there are a good deal of conditions and medications that also can reduce libido and when you consider the sheer number of them out there, it could make a noticeable impact. Everything from allergy medications to ulcer medication can cause it so I would assume that the numbers of people being affected by side effects of these medications and conditions would also be on the rise.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about one in 12 people in the U.S. has asthma, or about 25 million people. And the rate appears to be on the rise. From 2001 to 2011, the CDC says the number of Americans with asthma grew by 28 percent.

Asthma affects people of all ages, but it most commonly starts in childhood. According to the CDC, "the greatest rise in asthma rates was among black children (almost a 50 percent increase) from 2001 through 2009."
And new research presented at this year's American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology (ACAAI) annual meeting shows that scientists are seeing a corresponding rise in allergy rates as well.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/children-allergies-and-asthma-on-the-rise-110813#1

 

[gorfias]

Statistically speaking, that's 2 men that did not have a woman in their life during their fertility peak.

That's not true, because there are always women who aren't in an intimate relationship. Seeing women as a limited resource that men are in constantly competiting for is the misogynistic core of incel mentality. It's a huge problem because that same mentality is an impediment in social relationships, increasing social isolation and reinforcing the mentality. It's a vicious spiral of self-defeat that ends up hurting oneself and the people who they make contact with.

sta?tis?tics
/stəˈtistiks/

plural

1. the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

You are discussing what might be considered confounding factors.

Do you think that polygamy, men marrying up to 6 wives, has an impact on the mating options of other males?

lol

Yikes! Not a sort of LOL type of thing but thanks for sharing. 4 of this guy's friends have killed themselves?!?!?!

1. It repeats the trope that women are sleeping with Chad Thundercock. He's gets plenty of sex while maybe 20 women sleep with him. The other 19 guys? F-em.
2. It brings up a 3rd type of incel problem I hadn't thought about. Incels can be males that need to work upon themselves. Also, they are victims of a society that artificially prolongs adolesence, keeping them from starting their lives when they should be free to do so. But there is a 3rd. Some are just damaged people, like this agorophobic guy. How are you going to have a life being a shut in? Of either gender?

 

[CaitSeith]

Statistically speaking, that's 2 men that did not have a woman in their life during their fertility peak.

That's not true, because there are always women who aren't in an intimate relationship. Seeing women as a limited resource that men are in constantly competiting for is the misogynistic core of incel mentality. It's a huge problem because that same mentality is an impediment in social relationships, increasing social isolation and reinforcing the mentality. It's a vicious spiral of self-defeat that ends up hurting oneself and the people who they make contact with.

sta?tis?tics
/stəˈtistiks/

plural

1. the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

You are discussing what might be considered confounding factors.

Do you think that polygamy, men marrying up to 6 wives, has an impact on the mating options of other males?

So where are these large quantities of numerical data? 6 persons (4 of them specific, two of them imaginary) aren't a representative segment of a society. And no, I don't think it affect those men, because any man that sees relationships as a mere act of mating has already blacklisted themselves for women in search of stable relationships (whatever be monogamous or polygamous).

EDIT:

But there is a 3rd. Some are just damaged people, like this agorophobic guy. How are you going to have a life being a shut in? Of either gender?

Therapy, therapy and therapy.

 

[gorfias]

I don't think it [Polygamy]affect those men, because any man that sees relationships as a mere act of mating has already blacklisted themselves for women in search of stable relationships (whatever be monogamous or polygamous).

Marriage of one man to a woman has historically been about more than just mating but of binding that man to society.

Again, numbers. If one man marries 6 women, that is, looking just at those numbers, 5 men (assuming about equal numbers of men and women in a society) without a woman to give him social purpose.

Reportedly, in the West, such males join gangs. In the East? Terrorist organizations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO8OX05pqFk

As to how to help truly damaged people,

Therapy, therapy and therapy.

I understand Woody Allen has been at it for 1/2 a century. We can hope it will help.

 

[stroopwafel]

1. It repeats the trope that women are sleeping with Chad Thundercock. He's gets plenty of sex while maybe 20 women sleep with him. The other 19 guys? F-em.
2. It brings up a 3rd type of incel problem I hadn't thought about. Incels can be males that need to work upon themselves. Also, they are victims of a society that artificially prolongs adolesence, keeping them from starting their lives when they should be free to do so. But there is a 3rd. Some are just damaged people, like this agorophobic guy. How are you going to have a life being a shut in? Of either gender?

That is also what I thought. This is clearly someone who never had to take responsibility for anything and now late in adolescense is still coddled to death by his parents. I mean, how otherwise can you spend all day submerged in your own little internet world? I almost feel sorry for him, his mind is literally poisoned by all the garbage he reads and sees online and all the other degenerates he is in constant communication with and I get the feeling that is in no small part thanks to the total absence of a parental role model. I also think mental illness is too often used by people as an excuse to isolate themselves from the world, which eventually does more harm than good. As clearly demonstrated by this guy. No character, no spine; just a passive, entitled lazy bum mind-fucked by the internet to believe the world owes him a super hot girlfriend delivered to his doorstep on a silver platter while never having to leave the depressing room he's holed up in.

Anyways the video, minus the toxic beliefs, kinda reminded me of this legendary creeper xD

 

[gorfias]

That is also what I thought. This is clearly someone who never had to take responsibility for anything and now late in adolescense is still coddled to death by his parents. I mean, how otherwise can you spend all day submerged in your own little internet world? I almost feel sorry for him, his mind is literally poisoned by all the garbage he reads and sees online and all the other degenerates he is in constant communication with and I get the feeling that is in no small part thanks to the total absence of a parental role model. I also think mental illness is too often used by people as an excuse to isolate themselves from the world, which eventually does more harm than good. As clearly demonstrated by this guy. No character, no spine; just a passive, entitled lazy bum mind-fucked by the internet to believe the world owes him a super hot girlfriend delivered to his doorstep on a silver platter while never having to leave the depressing room he's holed up in.

Anyways the video, minus the toxic beliefs, kinda reminded me of this legendary creeper xD

I think that this guy is, at least harmless. Glad he is having fun. But someone like Eliot Rogers? That wasn't a bad looking kid. He'd started making some money and had something to offer a girlfriend had he the personality with which to do so. But there was something very damaged about the guy. Part of it was his world view (he thought his life should resemble a porn video?).
I saw another incel on youtube. The guy was young, overweight, soft, had hair and clothes from the 1970s. You want to just shake him and say, "dude! Hit the gym! Skip some ho-hos and ding dongs! and G-d Dang it! Could you please talk to one of our gay brothers and learn some f'n fashion! (OK, a steroe type but I suspect they can teach us straight guys a thing or two). This soft dude had less room to complain and more room to think about self improvement. And if he does sit alone in his basement thinking he is owed something and doesn't need to do anything himself, that is toxic.

 

[Agema]

I understand Woody Allen has been at it for 1/2 a century. We can hope it will help.

Given what Woody Allen has been allegedly up to for decades, it probably didn't in his case. It does for many others.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Huh, the numbers are higher than i would assume.

As for why that might be a problem: Well, the disparity between genders hints there might be something not quite kosher about it, although on itself doesn't have to be problematic. Now cesspits like r/incels existing however - one look at those shows why there's a problem.
I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Well with regards to them the problem is definitely not the lack of sex or needing to look attractive bit it's their entire mentality. Even if they failed to attract someone else they shouldn't end up like that there's something way more fundamentally wrong there if they can't accept things in a healthier manner

Healthier is the keyword here. Not an expert, but i think at the point where you're ready to give up, engage yourself with incel forums or PUA snake oil salesmen, you should hit a shrink instead.

Now that's an interesting point.

Evidence suggests that mental illness, particularly anxiety and depression, is on the rise in Western societies. It's entirely plausible that's also going to decrease socialising and sexual activity. (Antidepressants also often cause reduced libido.)

Anxiety can effectively discourage from hanging out with friends, or participating in scholarship activities(something i experienced personally) for example, so i can esily imagine more problems with more intimate situations.

 

[Trunkage]

I thought I'd add my point on gender in here. Becuase this is the major reason why I thought Sarkesian was wrong. Role model/ power fantasy/ stereotype do damage men.

As has been stated on this page, monogamy is actually more beneficial for men. Beforehand, one man had many wives and most men missed out. Some studies think it could be as high as 80% of men never had a wife.

This the dominant stereotype at that time, creating a warped sense of masculinity. And that hurts men today, as no one can live up to that PUA pretend but their playing a numbers game, asking hundreds to score one. Incels want women to act like they used to without realising they were forced into that situation. Those standards are unobtainable and damage men's psyche.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I saw another incel on youtube. The guy was young, overweight, soft, had hair and clothes from the 1970s. You want to just shake him and say, "dude! Hit the gym! Skip some ho-hos and ding dongs! and G-d Dang it! Could you please talk to one of our gay brothers and learn some f'n fashion! (OK, a steroe type but I suspect they can teach us straight guys a thing or two). This soft dude had less room to complain and more room to think about self improvement. And if he does sit alone in his basement thinking he is owed something and doesn't need to do anything himself, that is toxic.

A couple of things about that. Firstly, it's not practical for everyone to lose weight and get fit, the weight loss industry is massive because people keep paying money for things which almost never work. However, self-improvement doesn't have to be physical, if you've got the net, you've got the biggest and best resource tool available. Learn another language, the history of your nation, the works of Shakespeare, whatever.

And while, yes, it's infuriating to see someone totally not interested in doing anything believe they are owed everything (in fairness, half of every movie every made tells us that every unlikeable male with no redeeming features is owed an adventure and a hot female plaything), if he spoke a dozen languages and was a bodybuilder, while those are worthwhile achievements, he's still not owed anyone or anything.

 

[gorfias]

.....I'm sorry. I just had to do it...

That was spectacular! Thanks for sharing.

A couple of things about that. Firstly, it's not practical for everyone to lose weight and get fit, the weight loss industry is massive because people keep paying money for things which almost never work. However, self-improvement doesn't have to be physical, if you've got the net, you've got the biggest and best resource tool available. Learn another language, the history of your nation, the works of Shakespeare, whatever.

And while, yes, it's infuriating to see someone totally not interested in doing anything believe they are owed everything (in fairness, half of every movie every made tells us that every unlikeable male with no redeeming features is owed an adventure and a hot female plaything), if he spoke a dozen languages and was a bodybuilder, while those are worthwhile achievements, he's still not owed anyone or anything.

All good advice, and I don't write the incel I was writing of be able to do all of those things (work out, lose weight, learn another language, etc.) But do something and lose the entitlement. Getting a hair cut just isn't that demanding (My boy used to use clippers on his own head in a 3 way mirror. Took him 5 min and he didn't look like Greg Brady. He has some money now and is spoiled rotten, going to a guy that takes an hour and throws in a face massage, etc.) If you absolutely do not care about grooming, that is going to have an impact on dating. I think that's a big part of why we groom to begin with. Otherwise I'd be in sweat pants 24x7.

 

[Nickolai77]

I'd suggest that economic insecurity could be a factor. A number of young people aren't in stable, secure jobs, as evidenced by the rise of the 'gig economy' and working poverty. I think being in this situation demotivates a number of men (not all mind) in pursuing relationships.

I also don't think it's porn per-se that is also putting men off seeking relationships, but the wider abundance of digital distractions like video gaming, film streaming and social media means that it's easier to get around in life without a romantic partner. Porn is definitely a significant part of that, but I think it needs to be seen within the wider context of "digital distractions" which makes life more bearable than it would be without a sexual partner.

 

[Dalisclock]

I'd suggest that economic insecurity could be a factor. A number of young people aren't in stable, secure jobs, as evidenced by the rise of the 'gig economy' and working poverty. I think being in this situation demotivates a number of men (not all mind) in pursuing relationships.

I also don't think it's porn per-se that is also putting men off seeking relationships, but the wider abundance of digital distractions like video gaming, film streaming and social media means that it's easier to get around in life without a romantic partner. Porn is definitely a significant part of that, but I think it needs to be seen within the wider context of "digital distractions" which makes life more bearable than it would be without a sexual partner.

I was in the military for about a decade and for most of that I didn't date at all. I didn't have the time because I was almost always working or going on deployments. There was also the fact I moved every 2 years so even if I had dated I wouldn't have been able to take it very far due unless she were willing to move around with me.

It turns out working shitty hours is really bad for your love life.

 

[the December King]

I'd suggest that economic insecurity could be a factor. A number of young people aren't in stable, secure jobs, as evidenced by the rise of the 'gig economy' and working poverty. I think being in this situation demotivates a number of men (not all mind) in pursuing relationships.

I also don't think it's porn per-se that is also putting men off seeking relationships, but the wider abundance of digital distractions like video gaming, film streaming and social media means that it's easier to get around in life without a romantic partner. Porn is definitely a significant part of that, but I think it needs to be seen within the wider context of "digital distractions" which makes life more bearable than it would be without a sexual partner.

I was in the military for about a decade and for most of that I didn't date at all. I didn't have the time because I was almost always working or going on deployments. There was also the fact I moved every 2 years so even if I had dated I wouldn't have been able to take it very far due unless she were willing to move around with me.

It turns out working shitty hours is really bad for your love life.

These reasons seem more likely to be effecting men's sexual performance ratios than the notion that they are all just 'incel' losers.

 

[CheetoDust_v1legacy]

A couple of things about that. Firstly, it's not practical for everyone to lose weight and get fit, the weight loss industry is massive because people keep paying money for things which almost never work.

Yes but a good chunk of that is the same reason many people are overweight. They want to do little work for fast results. The weight loss industry sells people those lies. Also after losing weight myself and getting into better shape pushing 30 than I was pushing 20 I've learned that people really have no clue HOW to lose weight. A person told me that they're very active but can't lose weight. Turns out they go for an hour walk a day. I tried explaining that that's not weight loss exercise that's less than the bare minimum of activity a person should get. We have easy fast food and we have more sedentary jobs. We now have to be more conscious of our activity and nutrition than previous generations and most people aren't.

Where I work we sell little energy bites. All good clean raw foods. But they're 250 calories each. People come in and buy 5 because they think "oh it's healthy". Weight loss takes willpower. Most people lack it and want a quick fix.