Red Dead Redemption

[Fragrance of Mtn Dew]

Wow, Yahtzee actually brought up some of the same things I was thinking. Breaking the law and going for some intense police shootouts or car chases was probably my favorite part of GTA4 which is why I was kinda disappointed with the law in RDR because a couple guys chasing you on horse for a little while isn't really all that different from the regular missions...

I dunno I thought it was a solid game except the last few missions bored the hell out of me. I mean, shooting crows that are going after your corn and taking your son hunting is all well and good but it's so dull considering you jump right into it after having a wonderful raid on an indian settlement.

I really think some of those missions should have been at the beginning of the game so that you could 1) actually get to know this family that you're supposed to want to save rather than spending the whole game fighting for the freedom of some anonymous figures and 2) Yeah they were dull but those missions actually would have made for a decent tutorial. That's just me though.

 

[PyroTiger]

The whole idea of the meters reminds me of "Indigo Prophecy" which is what made it stand out to me... and I'd love to see some actual real life needs in games like the bathroom and food and so on.

 

[The Youth Counselor]

This is the article that I will continue to link to my peers accompanied by the GTA4 review. The two demonstrate essentially what Yahtzee boils down to. He makes good points through his nitpicking and demonstrates he is impossible to please.

With Red Dead Redemption, his problem is that there is no point. There are quests and there is a story but the developers never force or encourage you to continue the narrative. The game is a true sandbox environment, with desert, sand and dust stretching from coast to coast. However with Rockstar's previous blockbuster GTA4 the complaint was that developers shouldn't force players to go on missions, a certain personality, and interrupt their freedom inside a sandbox game.

 

[Sovvolf]

Sounds like you want them to make Bear Grylls the game. Which is coincidentally how I felt of the game... well I would have if I had to eat what I killed and we had the hunger/thirst/stanima bars you where mentioning. The world is filled with animals roaming the land and it's amusing at first, with the hunter and sharpshooter challenges... also being that the skinning business is a pretty good source of income at the very early stages of the game. However once you've done three or four bounty missions... You never need any more money and once you finish the challenges of the west, you no longer need to skin animals. Well unless you want free health items... Which you don't really need with the regenerative abilities your player has.

The game set it up brilliantly for a Born Survivor (Man vs Wild for our American friends) free-roamer. I mean most the plants you pick up seem to have a purpose behind them... Some are described to cure certain illnesses like Fever and such which sounded interesting and made me keep hold of them for a while in case I succumbed to Fever. However it never happens and it made the plants pretty much useless... Unless you wanted a free Dead-Eye re-fill... Which regenerates anyway (pretty fast too) so I don't see the point.

 

[RJ Dalton]

Damn. That sounds like a good idea. I want to play that game now. Too bad it will never be made.

 

[Warachia]

but yahtzee, who's to say what is the better form of evolution? when you set your mind on one path, you close off all others. Is it not better for dogs to coexist with people, something wolves could not do? I could name issues, like how farmdogs don't fit into that mindset, but if you are truly going to argue that all men should stick strictly to one path, it wouldn't have merit. Sticking to one path cuts off all ties to other ways in which people and a culture can evolve, and eventually brings everything to a screeching halt. If something has no evolution, be it for good or for bad, then what purpose can that thing ultimately serve by living?

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Wasn't it just two weeks ago that Yahtzee was saying how awful it was of Monster Hunter to "make sure you were properly prepared before setting out", and having "constantly decreasing meters" to be more realistic?

I think it was the number of meters that bothered him.
Hot/Cold
Sharpness
Health
Stamina
Many others in terms of items... Yahtzee is asking for a very simple version of it.

Health, Dead eye
Hunger, Stamina, Thirst

You still need to sleep, because that's saving your game, so building a healthy habit of that wouldn't impede you too bad...

But in the old west you can steal from others, wheras in monster hunter you're alone. So even ill prepared, you can rob your way through

 

[Quantupus]

The hunger and fat meter were the things I hated most about GTA San Andreas. It's no fun having to always run to the nearest burger shot every 10 minutes to make sure your character isn't to hungry or to skinny.

I'm going to have to call "bulls**t" on Yahtzee this time. If they had the "Survival" system like he's suggesting, he would have criticized the system for taking you out of the action and out of the game similar to the way you had to take your friends bowling in the first game.

This.

 

[CD-R]

This sounds a lot like the hardcore mode in the upcoming Fallout: New Vegas. Who knows, if Obsidian does a good job of with it we might see other games implement something similar. I certainly hope when New Vegas comes out you review the hardcore mode, I'll be interested in hearing your take.

 

[HT_Black]

I can't speak for anyone else, but it sounds to me like he's describing S.T.A.L.K.E.R 3 up there.

 

[DTWolfwood]

yeh really you need to be able to pay for sex man especially since some of the ranchy shit you hear the whores say when u pass by! XD

Im all for this survival mode! Yahtzee you should consider playing the Steam game called "The Ship" you have to LIVE and still assassinate a quarry.

tho best with real ppl around. and we know how much u dislike playing with ppl XD

 

[ZephrC]

Because tedious micromanagement is FUN!

Seriously, that's a terrible idea. I liked the game, but I can certainly admit it was far from perfect. This just would have made it worse though.

 

[pigsnoutman]

I don't really like health/tiredness/hunger/etc meters in games. That's why I don't like the Sims. It's a game. They're not meant to get hungry then whine about it in clipart form.

Hmm, I totally agree with this person, er, the one I've quoted(whoever you are).

I can just see Yahtzee complaining about a survival system, by just watching the sims review.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/800-The-Sims-3

 

[TaboriHK]

I agree with the assessment of RDR's problem but not Yahtzee's solution. The last thing an endless sea of land and sand needs is not one but three separate bars to maintain. It's bad enough that getting to every mission/activity/whatever requires a ten minute ride. Tack on that you need to hydrate, sleep, eat and you're going to have a game where you're spending a lot of time not having fun. And that's the point of games. RDR's problem for me was that it was too slow and too sparse on excitement. Yahtzee's proposal essentially heightens that weakness with the supposed benefit of immersion. That's the same kind of thinking that EVE employs, and likewise, the supposed immersion overpowers the fun and the experience doesn't have enough value.

 

[jokulhaups]

I really like this idea, seems as though it would finally give legitimate reasons in RDR to commit crimes.

The survivalism aspect is the main reason I'm really looking forward to Fallout: New Vegas. The hardcore mode where ammunition has weight, food needs to be constantly consumed, radiation is harder to remove, etc. seems like it'll give the game a lot more depth and make altruism a lot more of a liability in the game.

 

[Orekoya]

"Players would have to be sure they were properly equipped before heading out of town."

Didn't you complain about this mechanic in Monster Hunter Tri?

Wasn't it just two weeks ago that Yahtzee was saying how awful it was of Monster Hunter to "make sure you were properly prepared before setting out", and having "constantly decreasing meters" to be more realistic?

You have a very simplistic way of looking at things. I can make it simple.

Being prepared and well stocked before leaving =/= Having to go home every time you want to change equipment out that you are carrying on you.

I don't really like health/tiredness/hunger/etc meters in games. That's why I don't like the Sims. It's a game. They're not meant to get hungry then whine about it in clipart form.

Hmm, I totally agree with this person, er, the one I've quoted(whoever you are).

I can just see Yahtzee complaining about a survival system, by just watching the sims review.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/800-The-Sims-3

Many simplistic people. Okay, the reason he was bitching about a survival system in that video is because in Sims 3 it's the only gameplay system and it's not challenging to do either.

 

[carpathic]

"What it needed was a survival mechanic. On-screen meters for hunger, thirst and exhaustion, which constantly tick down as you adventure, requiring that you frequently eat, hydrate and camp out or hire a room for the night."

Arx Fatalis anyone. Mostly this just became deeply annoying. You either had to carry around 200 lbs of food, or died of starvation in the middle of a city because there was no food to steal.

 

[TheGreenManalishi]

On-screen meters for hunger, thirst and exhaustion, which constantly tick down as you adventure, requiring that you frequently eat, hydrate and camp out or hire a room for the night.

Wild West Sims?

 

[Steve the Pocket]

I haven't decided whether this is a great idea or a terrible one. I love the idea of having a factor that makes not becoming an outlaw a challenge, both because that's how it would be in real life and because it would give the more casual "I'm just here to have fun" players and the "I must prove my worth as a man" hardcore crowd their own distinct methods of play, as well as the opportunity to endlessly bicker about it on the Internet (which we all know both sides enjoy as much as the game itself). Whether this is the way to go about it or not, I don't know. And maybe we never will until someone actually tries it.

This is why I wish it were easier for people with interesting game ideas to break into the industry. I'd like to see more games come out that experiment. The way Mirror's Edge did. The results may end up being terrible, but they're learning experiences for the designers and the industry as a whole as to what players are and are not willing to put up with. Companies like Valve and Epic* have done the world a bigger favor than they know by making their engines relatively open and nearly free for personal use; it's just a shame neither one has built-in support for open world mapping*, since both of Yahtzee's epic game ideas so far have been open world games.

*So far as I know.

 

[Jonsbax]

I think that having more than 2 (3, at most) meters to worry about in a game would become a pain in the ass. I agree on what you said about what needs fixing, but on how to fix it... Bullshit. What you suggested there sounds just like something you'd whine about in ZP, just like someone else already mentioned here.

Yes, commiting crimes should be more tempting and useful. This would be simply accomplished by making the money worth something and make the crimes the best way to gather income. And how to make the money worth a damn?
-Take away the replenishing health and Dead Eye so buying supplies would be vital.
-Don't give away free ammo on save points (that felt completely out of place for me) and make enemies drop only like 1-3 ammo when killed.
-Like Yahtzee said, the respawning horses need to go (again, a stupid feature), which would force you to either buy a new one, steal one, or tame one (the taming should also be harder, btw).

As for having something to worry about in the wilderness when your horse is dead, maybe moving without a horse could eventually attract bandits that would rob you or kill you, obviously. And when you die, you lose half of your money (with autosave, this of course wouldn't be avoided by simply loading your save > ).